Ciss
Well-Known Member
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This has been my biggest complaint about horse passports and NED as these are the horses that are of interest to breeders as they are amongst the best horses in the country and not the 95% of horses that have 'Unknown' breeding.
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This is actually becuase many horses with known breeding -- and actually with perfectly acceptable passports were issiued with ID-only ones by unscrupulous ID-only commercial PIOs, who deliberately misinformed their agents (often vets) and sellers that existing ones were 'wrong' and should be destroyed or replaced by their own (vastly inferior) ones
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Many of the top horses in this country will NOT appear on NED.
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Well they are on NED if they are registered for competition with a discipline but becuase many of the horses have been given ID-only passports (even if they already have correct UELN-bearing passports with a correct Section IX intended/not intended for human consumption) there is no way of tying these up with any pedigreed animal ATM unless the owner chooses to have the original passport overstamped by a studbook PIO and the horse competes under the name that was on the original passport. And of course that is a problem if the horse concerned was imported from Germany as an ungraded colt or filly as these are not usually named prior to grading <sigh>. It is this issue that direct NED registration will hopefully address so that we can finally have a comprehemsive picture of what specific breeds (both British and imported) and which bloodlines suit which British riders in which British competitions.
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IF it had been done correctly at the start with one PIO and every horse was given a registration number and run like DVLA this would have solved many of the problems and saved hundreds of thousands of pounds that could have been invested elsewhere in the industry.
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It would always have been impossible for there to have been one PIO as all the studbook PIOs had been issuing passports in compliance with the EU Directive on studbooks since about 1992 -- or since they were formed if they joined the DEFRA approved list after that date. As these organisations had to upload all the compulsory data to a central database as part of the EU passport legislation -- and becuase that legislation also requires that all passports also carry breeding information -- they had to be allowed to contiue doing this but I totally agree that the situation regarding the multiplicity of (often unscrupulous) ID only PIOs is a scandal. This was, unfortunately, due entirely to the admin decisons made by one particular DEFRA civil servant (now thankfully retired) in the teeth of very strong opposition from all sectors of the breeding industry when he discovered that many horses of apparently 'unknown' breeding were not yet in possession of passports. We are all still living with the consequences of this stupid decision and perhaps it will not surprise you to know that he was also one of the main people to suggest that the first three letters of the UELN code indicate the country in which the database is based rather than the place of birth of the foal, against the specific recommendations of the original UELN committee but of course upheld by civil servants from some of the more agressively expansive studbook breeding countries. This guy has a lot to answer for as signiifcant support from the Uk (including our TB industry) for the original country-of-birth based scheme as proposed by the French would have tipped the balance the other way and created a much more logical system.<sigh>
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The other thing is about data protection as why would people with valuable horses want to put their details into the public domain? Instead of bumbling it through they should have stopped and listened to people who know about these things.
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Absolutely NO personal details (names, addresses, contact details etc) about owners, breeders, keepers etc are in the public domain in NED, the only organisations that have access to this are three civil servants in DEFRA (the Horse Passport Team based in the zootechnics section which concentrates on issues of biosecurity) and the specific PI) that uploaded that particular information on that particular horse (which needs this for any updating purposes). All data in NED is fully subject to teh serverest restrictions of the DPA and all PIOs uploading data to NED are similalry bound. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good old urban (equine) myth
.
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What incentive is there for as an example showjumpers to complete more paperwork when they are only interested in jumping a horse?
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Well, perhaps the knowlegde that the horse they are jumping -- and may well want to seel as it gets more successful -- has bloodlines that shows that it has even more potential than it has shown already. Such information is common place (and the first question asked -- and answer has to be proven -- when riders abroad buy and sell abroad is 'How is it bred?') and if there is one thing that is holding back the entire breeding industry here, and actually the development for a sophisticated (higher value) market in imported horses too, it is the fact that this is not the first question asked and proven here.
This has been my biggest complaint about horse passports and NED as these are the horses that are of interest to breeders as they are amongst the best horses in the country and not the 95% of horses that have 'Unknown' breeding.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually becuase many horses with known breeding -- and actually with perfectly acceptable passports were issiued with ID-only ones by unscrupulous ID-only commercial PIOs, who deliberately misinformed their agents (often vets) and sellers that existing ones were 'wrong' and should be destroyed or replaced by their own (vastly inferior) ones
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many of the top horses in this country will NOT appear on NED.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well they are on NED if they are registered for competition with a discipline but becuase many of the horses have been given ID-only passports (even if they already have correct UELN-bearing passports with a correct Section IX intended/not intended for human consumption) there is no way of tying these up with any pedigreed animal ATM unless the owner chooses to have the original passport overstamped by a studbook PIO and the horse competes under the name that was on the original passport. And of course that is a problem if the horse concerned was imported from Germany as an ungraded colt or filly as these are not usually named prior to grading <sigh>. It is this issue that direct NED registration will hopefully address so that we can finally have a comprehemsive picture of what specific breeds (both British and imported) and which bloodlines suit which British riders in which British competitions.
[ QUOTE ]
IF it had been done correctly at the start with one PIO and every horse was given a registration number and run like DVLA this would have solved many of the problems and saved hundreds of thousands of pounds that could have been invested elsewhere in the industry.
[/ QUOTE ]
It would always have been impossible for there to have been one PIO as all the studbook PIOs had been issuing passports in compliance with the EU Directive on studbooks since about 1992 -- or since they were formed if they joined the DEFRA approved list after that date. As these organisations had to upload all the compulsory data to a central database as part of the EU passport legislation -- and becuase that legislation also requires that all passports also carry breeding information -- they had to be allowed to contiue doing this but I totally agree that the situation regarding the multiplicity of (often unscrupulous) ID only PIOs is a scandal. This was, unfortunately, due entirely to the admin decisons made by one particular DEFRA civil servant (now thankfully retired) in the teeth of very strong opposition from all sectors of the breeding industry when he discovered that many horses of apparently 'unknown' breeding were not yet in possession of passports. We are all still living with the consequences of this stupid decision and perhaps it will not surprise you to know that he was also one of the main people to suggest that the first three letters of the UELN code indicate the country in which the database is based rather than the place of birth of the foal, against the specific recommendations of the original UELN committee but of course upheld by civil servants from some of the more agressively expansive studbook breeding countries. This guy has a lot to answer for as signiifcant support from the Uk (including our TB industry) for the original country-of-birth based scheme as proposed by the French would have tipped the balance the other way and created a much more logical system.<sigh>
[ QUOTE ]
The other thing is about data protection as why would people with valuable horses want to put their details into the public domain? Instead of bumbling it through they should have stopped and listened to people who know about these things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely NO personal details (names, addresses, contact details etc) about owners, breeders, keepers etc are in the public domain in NED, the only organisations that have access to this are three civil servants in DEFRA (the Horse Passport Team based in the zootechnics section which concentrates on issues of biosecurity) and the specific PI) that uploaded that particular information on that particular horse (which needs this for any updating purposes). All data in NED is fully subject to teh serverest restrictions of the DPA and all PIOs uploading data to NED are similalry bound. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good old urban (equine) myth
.[ QUOTE ]
What incentive is there for as an example showjumpers to complete more paperwork when they are only interested in jumping a horse?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, perhaps the knowlegde that the horse they are jumping -- and may well want to seel as it gets more successful -- has bloodlines that shows that it has even more potential than it has shown already. Such information is common place (and the first question asked -- and answer has to be proven -- when riders abroad buy and sell abroad is 'How is it bred?') and if there is one thing that is holding back the entire breeding industry here, and actually the development for a sophisticated (higher value) market in imported horses too, it is the fact that this is not the first question asked and proven here.
