FAO anyone that has/had a horse with Navicular

Which would you buy?

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Eira

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If you don't mind ... can you answer my Poll and the additional questions , thanks
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additional questions -

a) Method of diagnosis
b) How big/what breed was the horse ?


Thankyou if you can help
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I've got 2 and had another one!
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Well not with actual navicular, heel pain which the vets still haven't fully sussed.

Flame - 14.1hh PBA diagnosed with navic and sidebone around 1993, aged 13 by x-rays, before MRIs were commonplace. Still alive but not doing much!

Debbie - 16.1ish hh ISH x SF diagnosed 2008, aged 7 with severe DDFT and collateral ligament injuries, by MRI. Still alive but also not doing much largely due to behavioral issues.

Archie - 16h 3/4 bred ISH diagnosed 2006, aged 13 with (vaguely - didn't read report) degenerative damage to the structures within the front feet including various ligaments and the DDFT, by MRI. He always had varying levels of heel pain and corns. PTS.
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ETA ages.
 
QR- Yes, 17 yo Irish TB. 16.1hh
Diagnosed with lameness trot up, nerve blocks and x-rays.

Is currently sound to hack/ do flatwork *touches wood* with cortisone injections, bar shoes and silicone.

Hope it helps
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Thankyouu
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How old were your three when they were diagnosed?
Am I right in thinking if evidence/changes are present on Xrays then its worse? Or would all navic come up on Xrays?

I should just google it but ...
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[ QUOTE ]

Am I right in thinking if evidence/changes are present on Xrays then its worse?


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Sometimes, but not necessarily. Archie's x-rays were always great, but he was never sound, hence why it dragged on so long. If the vets find changes they are more likely to apply rest, medication and remedial farriery earlier which can all help treat all the problems. The earlier the problems are addressed the better your chances of getting and keeping the horse sound.
 
12 year old TBx 16.1hh gelding diagnosed with navicular earlier this year. Xrays didnt show much changes to nav bone but nerve blocks did narrow it down to this area.

Have turned away until next spring to see if he comes sound with remedial shoeing (as collapsed heels didnt help the problem). He is field sound and would probably cope with a bit of light hacking.

Also had Tildren but didnt help
Didnt bother with MRI scan as vet thought it would only confirm what we already knew and probably wouldnt make a diagnosis any clearer.
 
4yr old irish tb - nerve blocks and xrays - showed no lameness and only little lameness with flexion (always felt they flexed for very long time) although xrays apparently showed a fair bit of change but not full on nav but was told it was progressive disease. Also told to sell him on :-( or pts - wouldn't do either unless horse suffering badly and he is now full of himself and out competing a bit - won't last forever but enough for me
 
10 year old TB who was diagnosed last year at aged 9

after months of faffing around by one vet (who shall remain nameless) I got a second opinion and following nerves blocks and xrays to both front feet was diagnosed with chronic chnages to the navicular bone in both. But worse on the left.

She was turned away and we went down the remedial shoeing route until May this year - when on vets and farriers advice was told shoes wouldn't help anymore so she is now barefoot.
 
Was 15 when diagnosed with xrays...now 16 (diagnosed nearly a year ago), has bad days and good days. Has Equipak and had Tildren. 16.1 TB
 
My friends horse was diagnosed a few years ago. He was about 10 when diagnosed. He was diagnosed after one of the radio active scans (can't remeber the name). Xrays taken about 6 months before were clean. When diagnosed he had chronic navicular and pedalostitis in both front feet.
Tried remedial farrier and he came sound for about 18 months, but had always been a bit of pig and it was difficult to know whether he was being a git beacuse he was in pain or just beacause. So he was retired.
He had to come in last winter due to Mud fever so she rode him to get him out and he was fine in walk an dcanter (she didn't have much choice!), but pretty lame in trot.
 
Mine was 10 yrs old. He was WB x TB and was about 16.3hh. He was diagnosied by nerve blocks and x rays.
I tried all the treatment on offer at the time:
Navilox
Eggbars
Natural balance shoes
Silicone Pads
Bute
Shock wave.
None made any difference and he was PTS
 

16.3 Warmblood Mare, she was 8 when diagnosed by nerve blocks/Xrays

Had remedial shoeing for approx 18 months but it was too severe, and she was sadly pts as unable to settle in light work, unhappy retired and bute was not keeping her sound enough to do anything else
 
10yr old warmblood diagnosed by x ray as started tripping which was very uncharacteristic. Both fronts affected, near more then off fore. Also had DJD in off fetlock.

However, rested for 6 weeks had egg bar shoes, then natural balance shoes and stayed sound and in riding club type work for 6years, then 2years hacking before he had about a year in retirement and was pts. Unfortunately in the end it seemed that the gentle hacking was keeping him mobile and when we decided to stop and retire him he deteriorated very quickly.

He was a very special horse, never showed signs of lameness and only became 'footy' when on hard ground. He didn't have cortisone and very rarely needed the odd bute sachet if he'd been a hoon in the field. Vet supervised all the way through from diagnosis to the last day and had never seen a horse cope like him!

Sorry thats a bit long! x
 
a) Method of diagnosis
b) How big/what breed was the horse

Hiya

My mare is a 16.2 ISH (IDxTB) and its on the near fore
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She appears to have had problems from age 4 but MRI and scintigraphy (sp) at age 5 showed nothing.

For me she failed a lameness work up at age 8 - flexion and lunging on concrete. Nerve blocks and subsequent x-rays showed a "small lesion on the navicular bone" on the near fore lameness. The lesion is so small apparantly it was hardly noticeable.

She is currently sound with remedial shoeing although not being asked to do much and I won't ever push her - a bit of flatwork and gentle hacking
 
I had an 8yr old TBxCon (15.2hh) that was diagosed with advanced navicular in both front feet.

To get the diagnosis it took, x rays, scans, scintigraphy and then finally MRI.

He had passed a full 5 stage vetting 6 weeks prior to him first going lame.
 
3yo standard bred x ISH, 17.2hh diagnosed with navicular, DJD, DDFT and floating bone chip, he was not visably lame in trot but felt 'wrong' when ridden, the first vet faffed about wanting him rested then brought back to full work on bute, so i asked to be refered to a different vet
first he had xrays that showed the bone chip and a broken back pastern axis, then nerve blocks (which showed nothing), then MRI to confirm diagnosis and pinpoint the problems, he was treated with HA injections, rest, and wedge natural balance shoes in front and normal natural balance behind
he is now 5 and starting to hack out quietly, but how long that will last is anyones guess
 
Lameness examination including nerve blocks and x rays, but the definitive diagnosis (according to the vet) was a navicular bursa block.

Horse was a 16.1 Hannovarian x tb gelding around 11 years at time of diagnosis.

He did have a nearly false quarter on one of his fore feet and the vet did wonder if that may have been the start of problems.
 
Diagnosis was x-ray after intermittent lameness. He also has an osteocyte growing under the deep flexor tendon
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He is 16.2hh, 12 years old cross of many breeds including thoughbred, welsh and appaloosa
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Just had sisters horse PTS on Monday with this.

He was a trotter x and 10years old. Was diagnosed about 13 months ago.
 
I'm afraid navicular is often a misdiagnosis of soft tissue damage within the coffin joint.
Sammy was diagnosed with 'navicular' aged 8yrs old. Various treatments were tired for six months with little progress before he was finally referred to Sue Dyson for an MRI. It confirmed he had a ruptured collateral ligament and he was PTS. The misdiagnosis was fairly common back then (2002) as MRI was not common and involved GA. He was only the ninth horse Sue had ever diagnosed with this injury and formed part of an extensive study which proved a large number of 'navicular' cases are in fact soft tissue damage.
Nowadays the term navicular is used a lot less. It is common but often in older horses, it is rare in young horses. Jesper was diagnosed with possible navicular/coffin joint arthritis two years ago. We tried treatments but after six weeks pushed for an MRI which confirmed soft tissue damage within the coffin joint. He was turned away for a year. He returned to light work for nine months but has since retired.
Sorry to be doom and gloom but I'm never convinced by any diagnosis of navicular these days... Call me sceptic but I learnt from bad experiences.
 
Ishy - know what you mean, as you know I havesmae vet and he has left me a little confused. Told me x-rays showed no sign of navicular other than one "indicator" out of 3 being "borderline" on x-rays, said without the other 2 indicators and at such a mild level was doubtful that it was navicular. BUT has put navicular on insurance form! He's away now so I can't ask him.

Flame - OMG mine is also a 16.3 IDx diagnosed aged 13 (this summer) called Archie. He also has pretty good x-rays but is struggling for soundness. Sound in field but not on hard surface. That is spooky - hope my boy has a better outcome than yours.
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Hi I had an Irish Sport Horse (Very Irish Draughtish) 16.3hh who was diagnosed May 2006. She was PTS in October that year after breaking bones in her foot. It is the most awful disease. RIP Zen
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Method of diagnosis was (eventually) an MRI scan at Liphook to get an absolute 100% accurate diagnosis. He was a 16.1hh TB x ID.

ETA: having read the other replies I'll tell you a bit more
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He was eventing for a season before I had him, 5 stage vetting showed forefeet were a different size/shape and pelvic assymetry. I bought him anyway
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He evented for 3/4 of a season with me, then started stopping at SJs for no reason. Vet came out, horse was sent to a local equine therapy centre for a few months for intensive treatment by vets/therapy centre/well known physio they have working with them there.

Unfortunately no-one worked out that the problems with his back end were due to him 'protecting' his front feet by moving awkwardly/oddly so time at the therapy centre did nothing for him, hence referred for the MRI scan. X-rays had been inconclusive and unclear.

MRI scan showed clear navicular in both front feet, one worse than the other. He was turned away, tried remedial shoeing, Navalox (this was in 2003), but he was still lame in walk when on one sachet of Bute a day
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I had him PTS
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Yes, one of mine he was about 12/13
Nerve blocks & xrays to diagnose.
He was TB and had poor foot confirmation. In the end he was PTS, as he was in a lot of pain and as this was many moons ago the treatments were not available.

Also my friends horse was diagnosed at about 10, she is WBx Anglo Arab. Same way to diagnose however we are all convinced she doesn't have navicular as such. Just because your horse shows navicular changes does not necessarily mean that is the cause of the lameness and loads of horses show these changes but never go lame. IMO If the horse is lame and been nerve blocked to show that the lameness is in the foot, then the x rays confirm the changes that will be the diagniosis.
However above mare is 100% sound (after corrective farriery/trimming) & is now 17/18. She competed up to medium level dressage, & is now out on loan as a schoolmistress doing pony club. She is on cortiflex and has an excellent farrier other than that no other treatment was needed. Our back woman advised this course after seeing the horse, the vet didn't offer much advice just referred her to the farrier she was currently using, who by most peoples standards would be considered to be doing an ok job.

If your horse is diagnosed my suggestion would be get your horses foot balance checked by a really good farrier as this is a major source of foot lameness which can cause lameness on it's own. My friends horse went to Martin Deacon (leicestershire). He only takes on horses that need specialist help and she had to take the horse to him but it solved the problem completely. You need a farrier with FWCF after his name (fellow). Worth every penny and you may be able to claim some of the cost back if you are insured.

I could go on forever about this subject so PM me if you want anymore details.
 
HI I have had two horses diagnosed with Navicular,

1. 16.3 irish tb eventing up to and inc 3 star eventing diagnosed by xray. treated with navilox (going back 8/9 years ago) pads and putty and four point shoes. Carried on eventing at same level and even went on a british cic 2 star team. Sadly died of a heart attack.

2. 17hh ish evented to pre novice. 5yo amazing jumper and nice mover. Had him x rayed, then MRI, prognosis hopeless so was sadly PTS last year. Liverpool felt Tildren was a waste of time as the navicular bone was falling apart in both front feet.

Hope thats of some help. Feel free to pm me if you want any more info.
 
16.3/17hh idxtb showed up on xrays when he started going short in front after having had his hind suspensories succesfully opperated.
Think the extra weight he was carrying in front to save his hinds caused it and once we got his hinds comfy it came to light.
He is very happily retired and paddock sounds without shoes or medication and has been for 3 years now.
 
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