fao breeder (or genetecists)

[welshies]

Hi, asking for a friend with a bitch as she has had soooo much conflicting advise. She has a bitch she wants to breed from but there are 6 out of 62 dogs in her 5 generation pedigree that are known carriers of epilepsy. Does she breed? Know one really seems to know if it actually genetic or not!! Her some has just finished a 5 year degree in genetics and thinks at worst she may produce one or two carriers, but maybe more maybe less, some people have said don't some have said do and some say its a lottery anyway! The dog only has one carrier.

 

[foxviewstud]

if it was my bitch i wouldnt breed just in case the pups did get it??

 

[welshies]

The thing is they think (problem is nothing is proved either way) all welsh springer have a 30% chance of projucing fitter anyway and there are no welsh without a 'fitter' producer in their 5 year generation pedigree. Your opinion is appreciated as is everyones. I am now in corrispondence with a breeder in America who seems to know a lot about it. So fingers crossed we'll find out wether to go ahead!

 

[MurphysMinder]

I can't speak for Welsh Springers but the problem used to be rife in GSDs a while back (still is in some lines I think). Once a dog was shown to be a carrier no responsible breeder would use them, and in fact one very well known Champion dog was withdrawn from stud by his owners. It does sound as though you have a huge problem in welsh springers, are there any breed club guidelines on the matter?

 

[welshies]

Yes there are club guidelines and they just say any dog with producers in there close pedigree should be bred with caution but not excluded from breeding, she has not proven to produce fitters, if she had would would never even cosider it. On speaking to the breed club they have said it is up to us but my dog is the best match for her if we do as he is a low risk, but it really is a lottery so just don't know. It's a lottery with any welsh!! But if people don't use these dogs the gene pool is going to get so small that there are going to be major mutations!!! The son of the owner of the bitch has a degree in genetics and said the bitchs breeding is a bit close for comfort anyway and would do her line good to have 'new blood'. Basically my dog is a good match for the bitch but it is whether the bitch is a good match for our boy. The reason we want to breed from him is beacuse we want to keep a bitch (wouldn't have 2 dogs), not particularly to breed from we just want another one and he is such wonderful wonderful dog, the best temperament, breeding, confirmation etc. His Aunt (fathers full sister) won best of breed at crufts in 2000. We just feel it would be such a waste not to breed from. His breeder (who just bred a litter as she had such a nice bitch) kept his siter and wants to breed from her to keep the line going but her husband wont let her off for a season as she is the best gundog he has ever owned! and she wont breed another off his mom, she was only ever going to have one. The problem is, obviously he is not a proven dog, and so the breed club says it would be hard to find some willing to use him on their bitch but how can he prove if no one gives us a chance!! Sorry it's so long, just driving me up the wall. I want so much to keep him line going!

 

[milor]

Epilepsy very often does not show itself until the dog is around 2 years old - when it may well have already been bred from - and can often crop up after many generations of unaffected litters. It is very very difficult to eradicate once in the lines and as a breeder you can only minimise your risk and then cross your fingers and hope for the best !.

I have epilepsy in my lines ( BSD are very prone to this) - I was very careful and only used dogs that were 'clear' for 5 generations - it still happened - not once but in two litters. I have had all my homebred bitches spayed now and am starting again with a bitch I have imported from France who - as far as I can research - is from clear lines. But added to this you have to think about only using dogs with good hip scores, cataract free eyes, good temperaments, and of good breed type and construction....and of course with more health testing comes more dilemmas and choices.

6 out of 62 is not too high a ratio - and your breed has hardly any epilepsy free lines to choose as an alternative - so on balance if the bitch meets all the other criteria I would go ahead and mate her to a dog that has a similar 'low risk' pedigree.


Good luck !

 

[welshies]

Thanks for the view it is very much appreciated. As you i said as far as we can tell my dog is the best match as he only has one fitter producer in 5 generations, which in the welsh is considered pretty amazing. She also has an excellent hip score of 0/4, both dogs have amazing temperaments, health is great too in both so there is no other reason not to. I think we will just wait and get a reply from this breeder in America just for another opinion. thanks for the help!