FAO Karen K

[Blanche]

Thought you might be interested to see this filly (thats if you haven't already!). She's halfway down the page ,Exceptional White Girl .
http://www.doublelacres.com/Babies.html

 

[angrovestud]

Sorry just had to reply I have thought for a long time now that Splash white is in fact DW and just amazing to see that white foal thank you!

 

[KarynK]

Wow! It seems that once DW gets going it does all sorts of things, before we would have just said maximal sabino but now we know it's not!!!

I know they surmise that DW is lethal in homozygous form, but I think it depends very much on the type of mutation involved and this one clearly is alive and well!!! Will be very interesting to see what she goes on to produce herself. I had heard that some splashes are deaf, I wonder if she will be?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

*Interesting story going on with this filly. Both parents are splash overos.
Animal Genetics are doing a study on this girl. In all respects, this filly
should have been a splash chestnut/ - 100%. She tested negative for the Sabino gene.
They haven't seen anything like it and are saying it is rare - Homozygous (SplSpl)
for the splash overo gene. Dominate White (W)?
HYPP/NN

It will be interesting to see the results of the study on this filly.

 

[s4sugar]

Be very interesting to see the reports.



I'm a bit concerned that the HYPP status for some of the beefier breeding animals isn't noted on the website though.

 

[KarynK]

You have to wonder how this goes, are the Splashes extreme sabino that then mutates into DW, or are all the more striking sabino's some form of DW????

I have yet to write up the study I did on the TB crop out's personal circumstances and the PSSM problem have pushed it and the breeding survey back a bit, but there are no modern common ancestors in the known crop out all white TB's. There is also the DW study were different all white crop outs have a different mutation, which suggests that the TB is prone to mutations on the Kit gene of that type, although different mutations all produce the white phenotype? So if the TB is prone and of course we know it happens in Arabs too, then most horses will also.

Maybe it was an all white that started the spotting genes and not a gradual process? After all once the TB's crop out they can produce less white too not just all whites??

S4sugar At the moment HYPP status has to be tested and placed on papers and no H/H is registrable, but I believe it is not until 2020 that the AQHA, APHA and ApHC ban all N/H horses from the register. Self regulation was a complete failure with this gene and I think that 2020 will really bring on the pains for some breeders if they don't prepare!!

 

[s4sugar]

I looked a bit further & the ones I've found so far with no HYPP status on the stud's website are all N/H.

Why are they still breeding them?

It is a pity that AQHA/APHA haven't put a limit to the use of any N/H animal - preserve the line in one or two foals rather than keep the duff gene widespread.
Too many people are still ignorant of this gene & it's effects though.
(Is it ignorance or blinkers?)

 

[KarynK]

The gene started in the QH lines, QH's in the states are huge business and have many representatives in the US Government itself. I have heard that when the HYPP gene was discovered the scientist involved felt very uneasy and moved house - shall we say.

Impressive the stallion who is the sole source of the gene was just that and as we know the judging of horses bred for showing favoured and still does favour the heavily muscled type! When looking for that type doubling or tripling up on impressive got you closer to the "Belgian Blue" in horse terms so with that came the gene!

So it then became a myth that the HYPP gene gave you the muscle. It doesn't of course it's just in those lines, but the mutation has nothing to do with musculature. The test came out in 1992, but it took considerable pressure from a group of members the AQHA declared it a "genetic defect and undesirable characteristic” and in 1998 they added a statement about it to registration certificates.

Self regulation was a disaster with studies showing that HYPP instances of H/H horses had increased as people were still breeding for the gene! It was not until 2007 that the AQHA stopped registering foals that test homozygous (H/H) for HYPP and they do not intend to refuse registry on N/H until 2020!

It's really sad as a bit of restraint by breeders and a bit of "help" from the Judges at the beginning would have saved suffering in horses across at least 3 breeds.

Luckily in the UK with PSSM1 there are a lot of breeders taking their own positive action now and with luck the horses produced in the UK will be free of the gene in a couple of years and they can at least sell and breed with the help of the test results. Despite the AQHA openly funding the PSSM1 research that led to the test I doubt as quick a reaction will happen in the USA.

 

[Blanche]

Angrove - I hope I didn't make it seem as the thread was just for KarenK, I meant it for all colour peeps but forgot to add it to title as was in such a rush to get to appointment I was already late for !!

KarenK - Glad it was of interest . I love all this colour genetics stuff but it's way to technical , my eyes cross and my ears start spinning as soon as I start trying to understand the technical stuff.

s4sugar -I agree with what Karen has said re:Hypp . I could point you in the direction of some VERY heavy muscled AQHA mares that have tested HYPP NN. I personally wouldn't breed anything NH but I think the individual has to make the choice themselves . Is it any different from someone breeding from a horse who is unsound due to conformation problems ( not talking trauma unsoundness), it is their decision , right or wrong .

 

[angrovestud]

Blanche thats so kind I just loe colours and genetics as there is always something new to learn and i love the post!