Farmer's - a question

Trinity Fox said:
I do keep telling myself it is not common practice but it is not an isolated incidence or even one person, you are right about it being cheaper to just leave them to die and absorb the losses but they are living animals and my father has never kept animals like this nor would he ever.

As for the person who never came to check he asked us would we,yes I did and did expect nothing in return but he would not even come when needed or even to pick up or dispose of the deadstock.

I honestly do think welfare of animals is getting worse not better at the moment.
Click to expand...

It's not cheaper to leave them to die. They could be worth £120+ each and removal of fallen stock (mandatory) costs about £20 for a ewe. Report them!

The type of person you describe is not the norm, how could anyone make a profit from lame and dead animals for a start.

I lost a ewe hogg yesterday. Two had been attacked by dogs. They were still alive and on their feet (just) when I found them. I got them in a pen and phoned the vet. Half an hour later the weakest one had sat on the strongest one and suffocated it. Totally freak accident really, they had a huge space in the pen (enough for ten sheep) but I am kicking myself for not separating them or doing something differently even though I would never have thought of that happening. Anytime I lose an animal I feel bad and question if I could have done something differently. Thankfully, losing one is a rare occurrence for me, but I will be hacked off about yesterday's one for a while yet. And I look after hundreds of them!
 
cptrayes said:
I understand your point, but I am in hill sheep farming country with tiny farms, right on the bottom margins of farm income and all the farmers around here make provision for this kind of weather and still have fodder available. I have lived here 22 years and the latest that we have had to dig ourselves out is April 4th, but everyone still remembers a year when they dug out lambs in June. They allow for it and would not go into April short of food, never mind March.
Click to expand...

We have a tiny hill farm too. And we could at a squash fit all our ewes in. It's the bigger farms that have the issue. I would bet that the farmers digging out in June did not get all of those sheep out alive by any means, just as they aren't now. And those years were not preceded by the wettest year for 100 years. These farmers aren't short of food as such, in some cases there hasn't been any available to buy or at any economic rates to stock up extra so that using their x ray specs they can have it there just in case. they may have orders in for loads of food bought and paid for but if no one can get to them to bring it in?

I go back to the fact that prices paid by the market for lamb have in many cases halved in a year, yet retailers have maintained the very high prices for lamb in the shops, making shoppers think farmers get that money or a good percentage of it, and they don't. If people want spare sheds and stockpiles of forage they should put pressure on retailers to treat farmers fairly and pay them a decent percentage of retail price. A big shed could cost £100k.
 
cptrayes said:
I do agree, though, that some farmers featured on the news the other night in the Isle of Man had been rather negligent in knowing that snow was forecast and failing to ensure that they had enough feed on site before it started. But the vast majority of farmers are NOT neglecting their sheep. It was tabloid journalism at its best.
Click to expand...

Obviously you don't live on the Isle of Man or you wouldn't be making such riduculous sweeping statments.

Perhaps whilst you are slating these farmers you might also want to contact social services about the woman who with her children had to be airlifted from their home because they ran out of food? Or how about a pop at the elderly that ran out of medication? Or people that had to be evacuated by the emergancy services because they were literally freezing in their homes? How stupid of them to have oil fired central heating that needs electricity

You obviously have no idea of how bad the situation has been here or of the area these animals are kept in.

The weather was significantly worse than forcast, the Isle of Man is a small island that simply does not have the infrastructure of your country, but thankfully now six days later everyone now has electricity

Obviously us island dwellers can only aspire to be as perfect as those of you that have chosen to comment in such a derogatory fashion whilst knowing sweet FA about the true facts.

Unbelievable
 
Dolcé;11657497 said:
I was surprised at some of the comments made against farmers (not just on here) because I believed this too. Just as an aside, the road where our main herd are kept has been closed for days, as have the roads around it, purely because of drifting snow. We have drifts several feet deep in parts of the field and nothing in other parts, where the wind has literally blown the snow off into the drifts. I am only too aware that it could have been my ponies buried under drifts along the hedge line and consider myself very fortunate that they are all safe and well. We have had a hell of a job getting haylage and water to them, even with a large 4x4 tractor but it has had to be done. Had I lived in an area where farmers are having to dig out sheep then I would have been there offering help and I really hope they are getting the help they need so desperately from communities that are able to get to them.
Click to expand...

At last the voice of reason!

FYI tractors have been no use whatsoever, but this is an Island with significant community spirit and one farmer had 70 people digging out livestock yesterday
 
cronkmooar said:
Obviously you don't live on the Isle of Man or you wouldn't be making such riduculous sweeping statments.

Perhaps whilst you are slating these farmers you might also want to contact social services about the woman who with her children had to be airlifted from their home because they ran out of food? Or how about a pop at the elderly that ran out of medication? Or people that had to be evacuated by the emergancy services because they were literally freezing in their homes? How stupid of them to have oil fired central heating that needs electricity

You obviously have no idea of how bad the situation has been here or of the area these animals are kept in.

The weather was significantly worse than forcast, the Isle of Man is a small island that simply does not have the infrastructure of your country, but thankfully now six days later everyone now has electricity

Obviously us island dwellers can only aspire to be as perfect as those of you that have chosen to comment in such a derogatory fashion whilst knowing sweet FA about the true facts.

Unbelievable
Click to expand...

The question of not being able to get food to where it needs to be is an entirely separate one from not having feed available at all. I live in an area equally as badly affected as you have been. I am still unable to leave my own house by driving up the road, yet I live less than a quarter mile from a major A road which is now clear.
 
cptrayes said:
The question of not being able to get food to where it needs to be is an entirely separate one from not having feed available at all. I live in an area equally as badly affected as you have been. I am still unable to leave my own house by driving up the road, yet I live less than a quarter mile from a major A road which is now clear.
Click to expand...

You really are clueless

This Island is 33 miles long by 15 miles wide. Not all of it is covered by agricultural land so there is limited land available to make hay/straw

Given the weather last summer and the significant loss of crops - where exactly do you expect us to spirit this food from?

And please, think before you suggest us importing it.
 
I got a similar feeling when reading the comments on the Daily Mail website about this yesterday.
Sheep do not do well in an intensive system, if they did don't you think they would be kept like pigs?!
The lame sheep issue is due to how wet it has been this year as is, possibly, a lack of fodder.
These hill sheep would cope with these conditions for a day or two on most occasions, the issue is the fact they are about ready to lamb. Sheep do not need to be molly coddled like we think our horses do, even the little lambs cope well with bad weather with a full tum. There have been farmers who sheds have collapsed under the weight of snow. This time last year it was glorious, the grass was growing, lambing was great.
We are a lowland farm with all 340 ewes inside ready to lamb, starting very soon. We have no snow and still a bit of green in the field.
My heart brakes for the hill farmers faces massive looses and have to pick up all the dead stock.
I'm sorry for my incoherent rambling but I find it so frustrating how far removed people are from British Agriculture, how hard farmers work, how difficult it is with red tape and tiny margins. It's no wonder people have been eating horse meat coz they just don't give a s*** where their food comes from as long as its cheap. Unless its a cute lamb then suddenly farmers are the villians.
Arggggg Rant over. Pregnant farmer's wife, checking out!
 
I too have been quite surprised that some people don't seem to realise that hill farmers can't just bring all their stock in when snow is forecast. Cronkmooar I hope things improve with you. A friend used to live on IOM and we visited several times, it is a beautiful island but I can imagine the logistics with getting feed etc is a nightmare. My friend had to move back to the UK as she had a health condition which meant frequent hospital vists, and she had to be flown back to the UK for these. It got to the point where she could not risk not being able to get off the island, so had to give up her lovely home there.:(
 
We are arable farmers in Essex and when we moan about the weather - like now - we stop and think of the northern livestock people. My mum lives in rural Co Durham and her neighbours are lambing outside, it is only a small holding so he works on another farm all day then does his 20 ewes at night. What a bloody soul destroying time it must be. They don't have any money to buy in more hay and straw, they live well below the poverty line as it is.
 
Livestock actually don't do well in confinement. They can pick up diseases and illnesses fairly quickly when in the sheds.
 
Thankfully, I no longer have sheep but I feel for those who do and are experiencing problems with this weather.

Whenever I think of getting back into sheep I remember working alone and getting up at 3am to check my lambing ewes as usual. I had a bad back at the time and walking was difficult and painful.

There was horizontal sleet and it was bitterly cold. Although I only had 100 ewes, I found three needing assistance. By the time I had lambed the third one I was in tears, in agony, and near collapse. I can't imagine how much work goes into lambing the numbers of ewes needed these days to make it viable. I just thank God it isn't me doing it any more.

Some folk on here have no idea what it takes to put food on their plate. I often think this recession has a good side as people have forgotten what it feels like to be hungry and as many have forgotten what hard work is all about. Why should they? Just sign on for benefits.

(Grumbling pensioner!)
 
My husband is near to breaking point; we lamb 450 ewes inside, started nearly 5 weeks ago. He has had perhaps 5 nights sleep in that time. Prior to being brought in their grazing was being supplemented with hay and cake. Once lambed the ewes and lambs stay inside for 24 hours to make sure they are healthy, the ewes have milk, they then go out, and continue to be fed with cake as the grass is non existent. Last week some of the lambs started scouring, we are now stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea - cannot turn the lambs out because of the weather conditions and risk losing them, or keep them in and due to disease build up we lose them. We have pens up in every space possible. Each pen has to be disinfected before we refill it again. Every lamb that shows signs of scouring has to be given electrolytes and if necessary antibiotics. My mother in law and I top up as many lambs as we can with a bottle.
The heavy rain on Friday that preceded the snow soaked the lambs and the ground. If it had just been the snow our outside losses may have been less. We could not bring them back in.
 
cronkmooar said:
.......

Given the weather last summer and the significant loss of crops - where exactly do you expect us to spirit this food from?

.......
Click to expand...

A series of excellent posts, perceptive and accurate, too. I would that I could be of help, and I'm sure that I'm not alone. Sympathy isn't of much use, I realise. The horror of being powerless to protect stock, needs to be felt to be understood. Do you have any sign of an improvement in the weather?

The problem of winter feed has been compounded by the fact that with the exception of last winter, and apparently because of global warming, we have had 10 years plus, of very mild winters. With mild winters, initially those who bought in winter feed dumped it, as it wasn't needed, and when (especially on marginal ground) the room for a living wage to be earned is shrinking, so the need to economise becomes more evident. Coupled, with the costs of importing winter feed, to an island where there simply isn't the capacity to produce their own, then being reliant upon wintering large numbers of sheep, out, may be a thing of the past.

I also agree that being on the end of criticism, whilst doing one's level best, and from those who have no experience which is relevant to your own specific environment, must be irksome.

Press on, that's all that you can do.

Alec.
 
Margaretb - as Alec said sympathy isn't much use to you at the moment but please be assured that I am thinking of you during these desperate times.
I can think of hardly any other industries where people would carry on facing such hardships, But that is farmers for you, carrying on because they have to. It's a shame it isn't recognised by the general public.
 
BWa said:
Margaretb - as Alec said sympathy isn't much use to you at the moment but please be assured that I am thinking of you during these desperate times.
I can think of hardly any other industries where people would carry on facing such hardships, But that is farmers for you, carrying on because they have to. It's a shame it isn't recognised by the general public.
Click to expand...

Thank you x
 
cronkmooar said:
You really are clueless

This Island is 33 miles long by 15 miles wide. Not all of it is covered by agricultural land so there is limited land available to make hay/straw

Given the weather last summer and the significant loss of crops - where exactly do you expect us to spirit this food from?

And please, think before you suggest us importing it.
Click to expand...

And the shortage of forage and bedding is an issue on the mainland too, our very local sheep farmer was only saying just before the snow that they were worried about whether the hay will last, they had made enough to last them but have had to keep so many in because the fields were wet that they had used more than normal, straw is very short because of the wet last year. The cost in the amounts they would need to buy in is totally prohibitive, I know how much we are paying for the horses each week and that is just to ensure our own hay lasts until the next cut.
 
Sorry not read all of this ridiculous thread don't have the time right now but was referred to it by a friend.
This is a highly insulting thread to me I don't understand how some people can be so bl**dy stupid.
How OP do you suggest we bring hundreds of heavily pregnant sheep in from hills? And where exactly are we going to keep them?
Most farmers are going through hell just now and then you get idiotic people like this suggesting we are cruel?!
We've lost ewes in drifts not nearly as many as some people but the weather here and in many places wasn't even forecast to be severe so unless you've found a crystal ball to predict things then please shut up.
 
I have a local farmer now looking for 40 round bales of hay for his sheep
Never known him have to advertise before, in a 'normal year' he would make sufficient to last the winter--in 2012 it just did not happen.
 
I have been getting so annoyed and exasperated reading some of the ignorant things people have been posting on the web, slagging off farmers for 'letting' their stock suffer and die! So, thank you to those who have posted words of reason!

Sheep farming is not an easy life, nor is hill farming. Combine the two together and then throw in feet and feet of snow and I cannot imagine what these poor people are going through.

We start lambing on Friday, we have a little snow and bitter cold temperatures and we have a small enough flock that we can get indoors if we have to! (Although we would rather not) We consider ourselves to be very very lucky.

People cannot believe how soul destroying it is to look after your flock all winter and keep them fed and healthy, only to lose lambs in April due to the weather.
I have in previous years spent days helping neighbouring farmers get their sheep down from the moor when the weather has done something unexpected like this. Every day we had to first dig a path up to the moor across several fields, find the sheep, dig them out if needed and bring them down. All the digging work from the previous day having been filled in again overnight. I'd like to see some of the people who think that we deliberately let stock die try that for a few hours! Then they'd have some idea what hard work was all about.

Ok rant over now! :D
 
Sky filmed farmers literally walking over snow drifts with a stick to find buried livestock and a shovel the faces of the farmers said it all, a mixture of desperation and exhaustion. I wish there was more we could all do to help and it seems crazy that with all the technology available there isnt a solution but it is heart warming to hear about the local communities coming to the help of the farmers where possible. Here in Somerset we have got off soo lightly... No snow just the cold let's just hope the weather improves soon and the government gives help to those farmers worst hit.
 
Are you insulted ic1993 because I asked a question, or insulted that so many have found themselves in the same situation as you?

I'm not a farmer, and in my ignorance had assumed that farmers might have been able to make provision for their stock nearer to home, rather than leave them on the fields.

I'm sorry for all those who've lost stock, and sympathise with the personal and financial implications thier loss means.

However, if i'd not asked my 'stupid' question, I'd still be in a state of ignorance.
 
cronkmooar said:
You really are clueless

This Island is 33 miles long by 15 miles wide. Not all of it is covered by agricultural land so there is limited land available to make hay/straw

Given the weather last summer and the significant loss of crops - where exactly do you expect us to spirit this food from?

And please, think before you suggest us importing it.
Click to expand...



I am surprised that farmers would stock their land higher than they can feed in the event of a bit of adverse weather. This is not "once in a lifetime" conditions. If they have no feed, what were they planning to feed their nursing and in lamb sheep, which in the Peaks are fed at this time of year, snow or no snow?


Is the IoM in the EU? Since the single payment, based on land area not stocking numbers, the stock levels here are markedly lower.
 
Last edited:
Also if CP T was aware of the DEFRA code of welfare for sheep they are not to be transported during the last 10% of pregnancy. Now clearly moving them might be the better of two evils,but it does illustrate that there are further risks to the sheep/lambs in the process of the rescue itself as it involves very physical handling and stress to the sheep which can either prompt abortion or add to the stresses of the whole scenario and lead to twin lamb disease where the ewe wastes away giving all their nutrients to the lamb (normally only seen with older poorer ewes).
 
Last edited:
cptrayes said:
I am surprised that farmers would stock their land higher than they can feed in the event of a bit of adverse weather. This is not "once in a lifetime" conditions. If they have no feed, what were they planning to feed their nursing and in lamb sheep, which in the Peaks are fed at this time of year, snow or no snow?


Is the IoM in the EU? Since the single payment, based on land area not stocking numbers, the stock levels here are markedly lower.
Click to expand...

Cuffey said:
I have a local farmer now looking for 40 round bales of hay for his sheep
Never known him have to advertise before, in a 'normal year' he would make sufficient to last the winter--in 2012 it just did not happen.
Click to expand...



You really are not only irritating and rude but also ignorant on so many levels.

Your time might be better off actually educating yourself rather than spouting drivel on an equine forum.

I will make this slightly easier for you

1. It most certainly is once in a lifetime conditions here - and elsewhere if you take the time to read this thread;
2. The Isle of Man is not in the EU neither is it in the UK

I would also suggest that you re read this thread and note the comments from those that know what they are talking about with regard to farming before commenting again
 
Last edited:
If it were horses left in a field with no shelter because the owners didn't have enough money to build/rent a shed things would be different. Keeping an animal means you can provide for it in all weathers-not just the good times. If you can't and cannot afford to upgrade your facilities you need to be rid of the thought that is is a 'right' to farm those animals and sell enough to be able to afford the rest.
 
cptrayes said:
I am surprised that farmers would stock their land higher than they can feed in the event of a bit of adverse weather. This is not "once in a lifetime" conditions. If they have no feed, what were they planning to feed their nursing and in lamb sheep, which in the Peaks are fed at this time of year, snow or no snow?


Is the IoM in the EU? Since the single payment, based on land area not stocking numbers, the stock levels here are markedly lower.
Click to expand...

WOW, just wow :o
Stock levels are stock levels regardless of SFP, you can't live on SFP, you need to make your stock pay. It's 6 ewes per acre and in many areas probably less as the land/grazing is poorer quality.
I have a small flock of about a 100 ewes, they are indoors, nearly finished lambing, some of the lambs are 3-4 weeks old and have nowhere to go outside, I need to feed around a lb of grain a head a day, so that is 50kg for the ewes alone, then some lamb creep for the lambs, say 20kg. The lot of them go through a heston bale of top quality barley straw and another heston bale of hay, per day, each freaking day.
So, every single day extra of keeping them in costs me about £70.
If they were out they would eat grass and maybe a bale a WEEK.
Out of them 100 ewes I'll have around 160 lambs, if I'm lucky, they will fetch £70 per head at a market in the summer, after I have taken them, I will have to pay commission, levies and all sorts of other crap.
Just how much feed do you think I can buy in? And where on Earth would I store it?
Now imagine the poor sods that are lambing 500... or 1500
and then get a bloody shovel and dig yourself out, rather than impatiently waiting for somebody else to make sure your road is black
 
Cuffey said:
I have a local farmer now looking for 40 round bales of hay for his sheep
Never known him have to advertise before, in a 'normal year' he would make sufficient to last the winter--in 2012 it just did not happen.
Click to expand...

The same goes for beef farmers too- we are down to the last 20 or so bales of silage and getting through 1 1/2 bales a day... the cows are normally out 24/7 by now and last year OH made more silage than they thought was needed... we had it coming out of our ears, now there's boarderline not enough.

What you all also need to remember is livestock came in early this winter due to the rain, now they are having to stay in later due to the cold and lack of grass, they have used up most of their hay/silage and straw and are now on the last few bales... the grass isn't growing even down here in Cornwall which is normally fairly mild. We've got January orphan lambs waiting to go out in the field but there isn't any grass for them to have. The cows are still in and it's nearly April. This year is again going to be hugely stressful for British farmers and you'd think they would have the country behind them supporting them, but no... it's shocking really. And you'll all be moaning when the price of food goes up and food is sourced from outside of the UK because more british farmers have shut up shop...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top