bonny
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it's not easy and I've done my fair share of lambings in my time but I also think it's a great way of life and a lot of people would love to be in your wellies !
Farmer's - a question
- Thread starter AmyMay
- Start date
I'm sure it's not easy and I've done my fair share of lambings in my time but I also think it's a great way of life and a lot of people would love to be in your wellies !
amandap
Well-Known Member
It appears I do.You need to do some more research Amanda
Animal protein is a very inefficient way to feed the world, and we could feed a lot more people if we grew plant protein instead. Eating animals is a resource hungry luxury, not a necessity.
For those now wondering, no I am not a vegetarian.
All the land used to grow animal feed could be used for human food.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I can give you some pallets I don't need. Stack it and put a tarpaulin (from Poundland) on the top weighed down with baler twine and bricks. Or buy wrapped big bale if you don't need small bale for handling reasons, like a firend f mine has for her little herd of Herdwicks.
lachlanandmarcus
Well-Known Member
They partly pay a lot more cos they buy very small quantities and are very fussy about quality but not so fussy when bouncing the cheques to pay for the hay, according to the feedback I have!
Horse owners pay more for grazing as they want it in convenient locations, with good security, water, shelter and in small lots, which generally means they are competing with all the other horse owners and sometimes also developers. If they bought 100 acres not two the price would be lower, just as it would be if I was a big retailer buying in bulk, and the land wouldn't be fenced or in the convenient location. It's competition from horse owners that determines the price of pony paddocks.
These hill farmers are not the hay and straw retailers in this country, that is by far and away the lowland farms.
If you really want to be a farmer (not a hobby farm which is nice tho still hard work) but a real one that has to pay its way on marginal land, first watch Molly Dineens documentary The Lie of the Land if you can find it anywhere. Then decide again....
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-lie-of-the-land
touchstone
Well-Known Member
A hill farmer from my area has just been on the local news, he farms in Teesdale and was already struggling with the wet summer as the grazing lost nutrients due to leaching, the flock developed liver fluke, hay is hard to find and expensive and he has lost 5% of his flock to date. He said he'd love to walk away from it all, but he can't because he has to stay to look after his sheep.
I moan about the cost of haylage and the stresses the weather has placed on horse owners, but at the end of the day, that is a hobby, this is people's livelihoods. I don't envy them one little bit. They might work in beautiful countryside and have an apperently idyllic lifestyle to an outsider, but they can't walk away from a 9-5 job and switch off from it like many of us can, they have the worries 24/7 365 days a year
I moan about the cost of haylage and the stresses the weather has placed on horse owners, but at the end of the day, that is a hobby, this is people's livelihoods. I don't envy them one little bit. They might work in beautiful countryside and have an apperently idyllic lifestyle to an outsider, but they can't walk away from a 9-5 job and switch off from it like many of us can, they have the worries 24/7 365 days a year
Alec Swan
...
Perhaps that would explain why oats and barley were and still are rolled on farm, as the calorific content stays within the seed forever! Let's face it, we all know that.
Alec.
BWa
Well-Known Member
My blood pressure can't take anymore of this, I'm out of this thread it is making me question the social direction this country is heading in. One way ticket to New Zealand anyone?
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Yes, me please!! I've just read this thread, cannot even bring myself to commment. But then again, with so many armchair experts out there there's probably no need.
bonny
Well-Known Member
You'll find in NZ there are no subsidies and the farmers have to sink or swim.....and they have bad weather to contend with too !
jrp204
Well-Known Member
It is lucky that people choose to farm as if it they didn't it would be seen as a punishment! Long hours, no money and high stress, but it does give you a nice place to live.
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Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
You really wouldn't like their standards of animal welfare particularly for farm animals, I can assure you.
They block cover their cows but if any don't calve within their time limit they either abort them or shoot the cow; they go round the paddocks shooting any bull calves; they never use the vet just leave them to either get on with it or die and have a hard job to check their animals once a day even when calving. The sheep don't fare any better either so please don't say NZ is the place to go; if you're an animal lover it most certainly isn't. That butter advert is a joke.
BWa
Well-Known Member
I am fully aware of how farming works in New Zealand, my husband was offer a job there a few months ago but we decided to stay here. He has also spent a total of 18 months working out there for several contractors. I realise that doesnt make me an expert but i do have some understanding. However the draw for me was the fact the most of the general public in New Zealand have a basic understanding of how the industry works and the government seem to support one of their biggest industries much more than ours.
However this is completely unrelated to the original content of this thread so I now regret my flippant comment.
However this is completely unrelated to the original content of this thread so I now regret my flippant comment.
SusieT
Well-Known Member
Easy assumption to make that those who think leaving animals in those conditions is wrong know nothing-rather than accepting that we have a different view on acceptable animal keeping. And since when did it become offensive to disagree...
SusieT
Well-Known Member
(practicalities-a great word to excuse poor care)
amandap
Well-Known Member
Is it a case of "just leaving them" though? I don't think so.
Don't get me wrong I have lots of criticisms/questions with farming in general but these really are extreme conditions for some.
Don't get me wrong I have lots of criticisms/questions with farming in general but these really are extreme conditions for some.
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
martlin
Well-Known Member
Thanks Susie, that's really lovely of you.
ShadowHunter
Well-Known Member
Havent read all of this, but im getting the jist.
Personally, we farm Herdwick sheep and Highland cows. Now, i dont know how familiar you are with breeds etc. but both of these breeds are designed by nature to live in the highest grounds of Scotland and the Lake District where the weather is far worse.
For these, it would be worse, even cruel to bring them in for long periods of time. Eventually they will fight and lose condition, as i have witnessed previously on other farms.
Yes, not all sheep/cows/etc. are made to be outside, but most are, so to put it nicely, don't make assumptions as you don't know the reasons behind it. There a lot tougher than you think.
Personally, we farm Herdwick sheep and Highland cows. Now, i dont know how familiar you are with breeds etc. but both of these breeds are designed by nature to live in the highest grounds of Scotland and the Lake District where the weather is far worse.
For these, it would be worse, even cruel to bring them in for long periods of time. Eventually they will fight and lose condition, as i have witnessed previously on other farms.
Yes, not all sheep/cows/etc. are made to be outside, but most are, so to put it nicely, don't make assumptions as you don't know the reasons behind it. There a lot tougher than you think.
KidnapMoss
Well-Known Member
Nor me, I can't comment either. Some of these comments are downright ignorant. To those lambing in these conditions my heart breaks for you. We faced our wettest harvest last year and had to leave acres and acres of crops uncut,swamped in rain which was heartbreaking enough but I can't imagine how dreadful it must be, digging dead lambs out if drifts. This is EXCEPTIONAL weather. Thinking of you, from one farmers wife to another.
justabob
Well-Known Member
Silly little girl.
CaleruxShearer
Well-Known Member
As an student doing a degree in Agricultural MAnagement it really genuinely astonishes me how little idea people have about these things work. We are very lucky that we've had no significant snow down here but the cold weather and the wet has been really difficult, I've been lambing for a guy that was forced to pay to put up a polytunnel to lamb the outside ewes in because the wind and the rain and then the amount of snow we had was finishing the lambs off, but then there is the situation that you have outside ewes 'inside' effectively that aren't used to being in which causes a host of problems in itself.
For the hill farmers with big herds it just isn't, in any way, possible to get all the ewes inside, there is not the space, simple as that. It isn't a case of 'let's build more sheds to prepare for something that may happen every 10 years'. My heart really, really goes out to those digging stock out at the moment, you can't imagine how it must feel.
It really winds me up when people say 'oh just live off the SFP' - the majority of farms could not survive without it but most definitely can't just survive on the payment itself if that makes sense! The accounts that we look at (real farm accounts) are only just scraping by, and that is with the SFP, many many farms do not operate on any real profit at all. And yet people still expect cheap meat at good quality! Drives me mad!
Sorry all, rant over!
For the hill farmers with big herds it just isn't, in any way, possible to get all the ewes inside, there is not the space, simple as that. It isn't a case of 'let's build more sheds to prepare for something that may happen every 10 years'. My heart really, really goes out to those digging stock out at the moment, you can't imagine how it must feel.
It really winds me up when people say 'oh just live off the SFP' - the majority of farms could not survive without it but most definitely can't just survive on the payment itself if that makes sense! The accounts that we look at (real farm accounts) are only just scraping by, and that is with the SFP, many many farms do not operate on any real profit at all. And yet people still expect cheap meat at good quality! Drives me mad!
Sorry all, rant over!
justabob
Well-Known Member
CPT, you know a hell of a lot about barefoot horses and I regard you as a doyen on the subject. You know feck all about the practicalities of farming.
Spook
Well-Known Member
Are at least some of you aware just how depressed and helpless some of these farmers must be feeling?? Try multiplying your horsey/doggy/family problems X 100..... and THINK ON! .......
Such drivel as was, I understand, spouted on The Jeremy Vine programe, I did'nt hear it but my farmer OH did, and some of what is on here just may tip the balance for some. BE CAREFUL what you say, suicide was very much in evidence due to the heavy rainfall over the past seasons, this snow just might be the nail in the coffin for a few more so do not be so bloody careless and thoughtless with your words.
Such drivel as was, I understand, spouted on The Jeremy Vine programe, I did'nt hear it but my farmer OH did, and some of what is on here just may tip the balance for some. BE CAREFUL what you say, suicide was very much in evidence due to the heavy rainfall over the past seasons, this snow just might be the nail in the coffin for a few more so do not be so bloody careless and thoughtless with your words.
gadetra
Well-Known Member
Oh dear god. I have never read such drivel in all my days. Having been borna and reared on a farm I find it incredible, really incredible how ignorant people can be about how meat lands ont heir plates.
Space for all of them? Are you serious? Should we knit jumpers and blankets to tuck them into as well? Hill sheep are bred to live out, yean out, and an awful lot of farmers can't afford massive yeaning sheds.
These are exceptional circumstances. The weather and the year it's been have conspired to create truely ****e conditions. We rear finishers for beef and everything is still in the shed with no sign of grass to come yet and silage running out. Also one of my fathers friends up north put his sheep in, only for the old wooden trusses in the shed to collapse with the weight of snow on it and kill all inside.
Also remember a lot of what is dug out alive will die, the shock, cold and lack of feed will finish them off. So that's a ewe and lamb lost.
Whole livelihoods have been wiped out. Farmers have been left with nothing from herds built up over generations. If anyone seriously thinks they left livestock out to die needs their heads examined.
If anyone wants to step into our wellies go ahead-getting up before when you are well within single digits to milk, feed or fodther (don't know the english word for it) cattle and the same when you get home in all weathers. You grow up working, there are NEVER lie-ins, or holidays. We can't afford to pay someone to look after our stock so my parents have never been on a holiday. Ever in their lives. It is a 24 hour job, 365 days a year. It's hard, long, tough work, and it is relentless. You are at the mercy of nature and very very little money is made. It is something in your blood, your soul. Farmers are born over here, not made.
Add to this how much grain has risen in price over the years and beef prices have dropped? You do the maths. Every animal is precious, and no farmer leaves profit out to die in a field cos they can't be bothered looking after it.
I'm going to stop now, before I begin spitting with rage. I could triple the length of this post! Such levels of self riteous ignorance incense me. Sin é I am out!
Space for all of them? Are you serious? Should we knit jumpers and blankets to tuck them into as well? Hill sheep are bred to live out, yean out, and an awful lot of farmers can't afford massive yeaning sheds.
These are exceptional circumstances. The weather and the year it's been have conspired to create truely ****e conditions. We rear finishers for beef and everything is still in the shed with no sign of grass to come yet and silage running out. Also one of my fathers friends up north put his sheep in, only for the old wooden trusses in the shed to collapse with the weight of snow on it and kill all inside.
Also remember a lot of what is dug out alive will die, the shock, cold and lack of feed will finish them off. So that's a ewe and lamb lost.
Whole livelihoods have been wiped out. Farmers have been left with nothing from herds built up over generations. If anyone seriously thinks they left livestock out to die needs their heads examined.
If anyone wants to step into our wellies go ahead-getting up before when you are well within single digits to milk, feed or fodther (don't know the english word for it) cattle and the same when you get home in all weathers. You grow up working, there are NEVER lie-ins, or holidays. We can't afford to pay someone to look after our stock so my parents have never been on a holiday. Ever in their lives. It is a 24 hour job, 365 days a year. It's hard, long, tough work, and it is relentless. You are at the mercy of nature and very very little money is made. It is something in your blood, your soul. Farmers are born over here, not made.
Add to this how much grain has risen in price over the years and beef prices have dropped? You do the maths. Every animal is precious, and no farmer leaves profit out to die in a field cos they can't be bothered looking after it.
I'm going to stop now, before I begin spitting with rage. I could triple the length of this post! Such levels of self riteous ignorance incense me. Sin é I am out!
CazD
Well-Known Member
I am glad you have brought this up,I am fed up of looking at sheep near us lame, left out in all weathers with no feed shelter.
Huge sheds standing empty and food on site sheep screaming at me when they see me feeding horses.
When we had the bad snow a couple of years ago we were left feeding sheep as the person who owned them used to come and check on them every couple of months if that.
There is even a person who has been banned who is keeping them in somebody else's name, I know not all farmers are like this but we see so much sheer neglect and my dad always comments he does not want to comeback as a sheep in another life.
Half of them near us do not even do basic checking we are always having to get them up on there feet after being down for so long and gassing up,we have also found them with eyes pecked out etc so the fact many were not brought in does not surprise me in the least.
It is very frustrating and depressing.
This sounds just like my neighbouring farmer. RSPCA, DEFRA and environmental health all say they are "aware and monitoring him" but in reality do nothing. Meanwhile the animals drown in the deep mud or starve because the farmer couldnt give a toss.
Edited to add - this is one farmer by us - the rest are fine, work hard and do a job I really wouldnt want to have to.
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Tuffles 23
Well-Known Member
Being a farmer's daughter and knowing how hard this way of life really is my heart go's out to these poor people and if I was closer I would be there helping them find there stock .
justabob
Well-Known Member
Spook, Its dire I know but there are lots of supportive posts on here, lots of understanding people that know what its like to fight on. Ignore the rest that the first time they have come in contact with lamb is on a plate. On the up side the biting east wind has subsided and for a few minutes lambs were gathering this afternoon and playing. It was a sight for sore eyes.
Spook
Well-Known Member
If you genuinely think there is a problem forget the charities and go to the Animal Health Inspector at your local council...... they will intervene. Only do this if you are sure AND for gods sake not just when the weather is desperate....... most of us are trying very hard to do the right thing by our stock.
Alec Swan
...
martlin, the likes of SusieT are so authoritative, they have such a wealth of knowledge, "AND NOT LET'S FORGET, experience"
, that they will lecture those who rely upon the generations of learning which have been handed down to those who manage an everyday existence. Arguing with idiots is a waste of time, I've found.
Alec.
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
As I stated I am sure not all other farmers are doing what we see, and why is it assumed because I have made these comments all of which are truth that I am probably just a horse owner who is so used to coddling my horses and I don't understand it all.
As I also stated my father has never kept his animals nor will he as some are being kept, I never once said he only keeps horses.
I would be a complete hypocrite if I did not speak as I have about my own experiences of practices going on right under my nose,it is not an attack on all farmers it is about things I have personally seen and are not good practise by any stretch and quite frankly are sometimes cruel.
I am speaking only about things I have seen for myself and it is not one person either. I am sure there are lot's of farmers who are distraught at what is going on and are striving to do their best in a bad situation,that does not change the facts about the poor care the stock I was making reference to are receiving.
And I do know how much sheep are worth although the price has dropped considerably and how much it costs to have a carcass taken away although as I stated the people I was talking about in earlier post one burns some of theirs and yes I know the position on the disposal of stock and another has dead sheep lying around rotting in fields,all of which I know is not supposed to be doable, and as I also said another who is banned is still keeping them.
Maybe I should pretend all this is not happening, after all if you are involved in the farming industry in any way the one thing you must never do is speak out if you think anything wrong is being done.
Even the one's who have been taken to court and prosecuted and banned here it does not stop them they are keeping them still just not on paper,two of our close neighbours have been prosecuted and it is a big joke and they get the oh have you been a naughty boy type jokes at the market.
I can see from some of the responses on this thread that there are lots people who care for their stock with passion and it must be soul destroying for those who have had the worst of the weather and maybe I should have commented about these particular people on a seperate thread as I understand with the extreme weather it is not normal circumstances, but this extreme weather only shows the neglect of care even more and if you see it every day then I am afraid it is very frustrating.
As I also stated my father has never kept his animals nor will he as some are being kept, I never once said he only keeps horses.
I would be a complete hypocrite if I did not speak as I have about my own experiences of practices going on right under my nose,it is not an attack on all farmers it is about things I have personally seen and are not good practise by any stretch and quite frankly are sometimes cruel.
I am speaking only about things I have seen for myself and it is not one person either. I am sure there are lot's of farmers who are distraught at what is going on and are striving to do their best in a bad situation,that does not change the facts about the poor care the stock I was making reference to are receiving.
And I do know how much sheep are worth although the price has dropped considerably and how much it costs to have a carcass taken away although as I stated the people I was talking about in earlier post one burns some of theirs and yes I know the position on the disposal of stock and another has dead sheep lying around rotting in fields,all of which I know is not supposed to be doable, and as I also said another who is banned is still keeping them.
Maybe I should pretend all this is not happening, after all if you are involved in the farming industry in any way the one thing you must never do is speak out if you think anything wrong is being done.
Even the one's who have been taken to court and prosecuted and banned here it does not stop them they are keeping them still just not on paper,two of our close neighbours have been prosecuted and it is a big joke and they get the oh have you been a naughty boy type jokes at the market.
I can see from some of the responses on this thread that there are lots people who care for their stock with passion and it must be soul destroying for those who have had the worst of the weather and maybe I should have commented about these particular people on a seperate thread as I understand with the extreme weather it is not normal circumstances, but this extreme weather only shows the neglect of care even more and if you see it every day then I am afraid it is very frustrating.