Farmer's - a question

Spook said:
If you genuinely think there is a problem forget the charities and go to the Animal Health Inspector at your local council...... they will intervene. Only do this if you are sure AND for gods sake not just when the weather is desperate....... most of us are trying very hard to do the right thing by our stock.
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Thank you - is the animal Health Inspector different to the environmental health people with the council? The farmer I mentioned is well known to people in my area who have been making complaints to various authorities for years. No-one can understand why nothing gets done - animals are obviously suffering, carcasses are left rotting in the fields and none of the cows have ear tags etc. Even the other local farmers cant understand why nothing gets done as they all have to abide by the rules.
 
CazD said:
This sounds just like my neighbouring farmer. RSPCA, DEFRA and environmental health all say they are "aware and monitoring him" but in reality do nothing. Meanwhile the animals drown in the deep mud or starve because the farmer couldnt give a toss.

Edited to add - this is one farmer by us - ........
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I don't believe you. I believe that you have fabricated this tale. Provide the evidence.

Alec.
 
As mad as I am about this post I will try to stay out of its stupidity, and I agree their are some people allowed and not allowed to keep Sheep that shouldnt be keeping them which is the same with a Great many horse Owners yes I agree that their plight in some areas is horrendous but lets rationaly think about this.
1 The weather is totally unseasonal
2 This is a once in about 50 year event
3 Sheep are designed by nature to live in some of the harshest of conditions and thrive better in normally colder upland conditions than up to their hocks in mud, in the Lowlands.
4 Most farms do not have the building space to house large Nos of sheep because the weather isnt usally like this at Lambing and Sheep thrive better outside, as do their Lambs in a normal year.
5 Most Farmers ALWAYS Try to Look after their animals the best they can it is their Livelyhood.
6 I havent read all the posts so I apologise if this has already been said.
7 As the saying goes try walking a few miles in my Boots and think of the Torment that some farmers are enduring at the moment.
 
I have read every post on this thread from the original post right through to the end. Never have I have been so amazed at people's small mindedness let alone their lack of compassion ( and I have read some things on here that take my breath away).

I struggle in this weather to look after my pampered 5 horses and cannot imagine the heartbreak and sheer awfulness that some of the nations farmers have been through. Their wellies are totally safe from my feet I can assure you but my god my hat is off to them !! Let's hope there is a let up for them soon. Some of you should hang your heads in shame !:(
 
Good to read that there are some sane people on here after all. Just off to bed as away tomorrow early to help my neighbouring farmer, 400 lambed and about the same to go. Where the hell we are going to put them all I don't know as already I have 8 ewes plus their lambs in my spare stable!
 
amymay said:
Thanks for everyone's responses.

I must live in cloud cuckoo land.
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You obviously do. But don't worry the farmers won't notice, they're all too busy trying to save their livelihood , Not that you think so. There may be some out there who don't give a monkeys, but farming is in most farmers blood and they would do anything for their animals.

You don't have a blinking clue. :mad:
 
bonny said:
I think one of the problems with complaining farmers is that a lot of people would gladly swap places with them !
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and most of them would probably realise after 1 day that it's bloody hard work and would also realise why the suicide rate for farmers is so high.

Struggling to get harvest in when the weather is bad, struggling to get seed in when the weather is bad, watching the seed in fields that have been drilled rot away before your eyes, struggling to feed your livestock, up every hour god gives when a cow is calving or your sheep are lambing, never going on holiday, always having something to do, never knowing what the price of grain/livestock/forage is going to be tomorrow yet alone in 8mths time when you want to sell it, constantly having i's to dot and t's to cross, dealing with huge amounts of paperwork/ligitation/red tape... getting kicked by a heifer, losing your stock to TB, worrying about whether TB will be in your herd this year, fixing machinery that's gone wrong, working 100+ hour weeks not because you want to but because you HAVE to in order to keep the farm going. In reality many farmers will feed their animals instead of feeding themselves if it came to that point.

no it's ok, farmers have a super life bumbling around in their tractor looking after their animals who always have enough food... what an inconsiderate and naiive post that was on your behalf. Farming is something you're born into, not a choice, it's a lifestyle and not many people truely realise how difficult it can be.
 
silu said:
Good to read that there are some sane people on here after all. Just off to bed as away tomorrow early to help my neighbouring farmer, 400 lambed and about the same to go. Where the hell we are going to put them all I don't know as already I have 8 ewes plus their lambs in my spare stable!
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You could put them in the hay shed? Or maybe on some pallets under a tarp from poundland ;) :D
 
Unusual weather catches people who farm out now and again. You can only really plan for what is usual.

We used to lamb outside, but don't any more because of unpredictable weather.

No one who farms is comfortable losing stock, emotionally it's hard, nevermind the actual cost.

Lots of things we do as farmers is stupid at times, and goes against nature, these things soon fail though. What often amuses me is looking at what I was taught in college in the 70's most of it is the complete opposite now.:)
 
Pale Rider said:
Unusual weather catches people who farm out now and again. You can only really plan for what is usual.

We used to lamb outside, but don't any more because of unpredictable weather.

No one who farms is comfortable losing stock, emotionally it's hard, nevermind the actual cost.

Lots of things we do as farmers is stupid at times, and goes against nature, these things soon fail though. What often amuses me is looking at what I was taught in college in the 70's most of it is the complete opposite now.:)
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You must have a very small flock of lowland sheep if you can lamb all your sheep inside.
 
Twizzel said:
and most of them would probably realise after 1 day that it's bloody hard work and would also realise why the suicide rate for farmers is so high.

Struggling to get harvest in when the weather is bad, struggling to get seed in when the weather is bad, watching the seed in fields that have been drilled rot away before your eyes, struggling to feed your livestock, up every hour god gives when a cow is calving or your sheep are lambing, never going on holiday, always having something to do, never knowing what the price of grain/livestock/forage is going to be tomorrow yet alone in 8mths time when you want to sell it, constantly having i's to dot and t's to cross, dealing with huge amounts of paperwork/ligitation/red tape... getting kicked by a heifer, losing your stock to TB, worrying about whether TB will be in your herd this year, fixing machinery that's gone wrong, working 100+ hour weeks not because you want to but because you HAVE to in order to keep the farm going. In reality many farmers will feed their animals instead of feeding themselves if it came to that point.

no it's ok, farmers have a super life bumbling around in their tractor looking after their animals who always have enough food... what an inconsiderate and naiive post that was on your behalf. Farming is something you're born into, not a choice, it's a lifestyle and not many people truely realise how difficult it can be.
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This

My OH is a hill farmer, We have been very lucky in that we dont have the snow in Devon, But that dosent means we have it easy, Very poor grass quality from all the rain last year. Now luckily we had a good harvets as he worked flat out 20hour days when we had nice weather. However they lost half the silage pit at the beginning of winter due to high winds and heavy rain which they are not insured for, There are approx 500 cows and 1500 sheep. we are running out of feed for the cows and sheep now with no grass growing to feed them. Oh to top that off they have been down with TB so have extra mouths to feed as they couldnt sell last years calves. the last straw bill was £16000, and they are running out of that too now.
 
Ours haven't come in, mainly because there is no need for them to as the weather here is bearable just. We have no provision to lamb inside, as for 50+ years we've not had to do so. However things are changing and it looks like that is going to have to change too.
This weather is unprecedented and most are caught out by it, it's no surprise farmers are too.

My heart bleeds for those losing stock, you only have to see the tears in these tough people's eyes to know they didn't expect this and that they'd probably have done different, if they could, in hindsight. Sad to find them judged.
 
SFP is a subsidy which provides cheap food for the end user. Without SFP the cost of production would rise and this would affect the price in the shops dramatically.

No subsidy in NZ and a totally different standard of animal welfare over there too. One man will be responsible for thousands and thousands of sheep. They do not help anything to survive, if it can't make it itself, it will die or be destroyed (if it's lucky). My ewes are checked 5 times a day at lambing time, from dawn til dusk as they do not lamb when its dark (a sixteen hour day by the end of April). Ewes are not checked like this in NZ.

It's not so much a lack of forage but the snow has made getting to it, and getting it to the stock, difficult and in some cases impossible.

Yes I chose to work in agriculture. If farmers didn't farm what would we eat? If you ate today you likely need to thank a farmer.

Folk on this thread may be quite happy not to eat meat but plenty of people do want to eat meat. Arable farming relies on livestock farming and vice versa.

Incidentally if the hills were not grazed by hill sheep they would in short order return to impenetrable scrub. No footpaths would be maintained and walkers and horse riders alike would have far less beautiful countryside to explore. No livestock = no leather for tack either.
 
I am absolutely sure that most of the people who do not farm livestock, on this thread, would not last a week on a working livestock farm in a normal year, never mind this last twelve months. To tie in the bad practice of one or two farmers, with the original question is either naive or sensationilst. The weather here has been unbelievable, was not forecast to be as it was. The amount of snow was not the major problem, the feet high drifts were. You might as well ask why the local authorities didn't put under road heating on all major routes, or miles of netting to prevent the snow from blowing onto the roads. The profit margin on sheep is small, the hourly rate of pay works out well below the minimum wage. Can't see too many queuing up to take over the hill farms round here.
 
YorksG said:
I am absolutely sure that most of the people who do not farm livestock, on this thread, would not last a week on a working livestock farm in a normal year, never mind this last twelve months. To tie in the bad practice of one or two farmers, with the original question is either naive or sensationilst. The weather here has been unbelievable, was not forecast to be as it was. The amount of snow was not the major problem, the feet high drifts were. You might as well ask why the local authorities didn't put under road heating on all major routes, or miles of netting to prevent the snow from blowing onto the roads. The profit margin on sheep is small, the hourly rate of pay works out well below the minimum wage. Can't see too many queuing up to take over the hill farms round here.
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You have a very very fair point.

The weather was much worse than anyone expected, or to be fair experienced before in many cases.

Nobody should put their lives in danger.

Of course there are bad farmers out there. I for one know of a good few who have let their stock drown/freeze out in weather/get heat exposure etc etc. But it's very unfair to label every farmer with the 'neglect' stamp because of the weather situation in the past couple of weeks.
 
YorksG said:
You might as well ask why the local authorities didn't put under road heating on all major routes, or miles of netting to prevent the snow from blowing onto the roads.
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This is a good point yorksG, why on earth don't they do this. They could use some of those spare pallets and pound land tarps if there was a netting shortage!

I have some old heated cable which could be used under the roads. Old electric blankets could be donated to the cause.

If the council just planned ahead, they could get this in place for next winter.

YorksG for prime minister!
 
FfionWinnie said:
This is a good point yorksG, why on earth don't they do this. They could use some of those spare pallets and pound land tarps if there was a netting shortage!

I have some old heated cable which could be used under the roads. Old electric blankets could be donated to the cause.

If the council just planned ahead, they could get this in place for next winter.

YorksG for prime minister!
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I thank you :D I have to say one of the laws I would try and pass, is that anyone who thought livestock farming was easy had to spend a week on a farm in January/February actually working the hours the farmer and his family do. Just another thought, a lot of our local hill farmers are tennant farmers, so not able to raise any funds from selling/mortgaging the land or any 'spare' buildings.
 
YorksG said:
. Just another thought, a lot of our local hill farmers are tennant farmers, so not able to raise any funds from selling/mortgaging the land or any 'spare' buildings.
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This^^^^ is a very good point and one that should be taken into consideration! While rents and everything else they have to pay out is going up on a regular basis, their income isnt! Not every farmer owns their own land and (especially round here) getting planning for new buildings isnt easy...or cheap!

I feel for the farmers in this awful weather, and some of the comments on this thread really show that some people have no idea whatsoever about farming!

Lets hope non of you bed your horse on straw, because it will probably cost a lot more than hay this winter coming! ;) Then we will see all the threads about how farmers are conning you out of your hard earned money!!
 
As I have already said I am not trying to tar all with the same brush or I would have to include members of my family,Yorks g you may think I am being naive but look a couple of posts down Moomin1 state they know of a good few who have let stock freeze drown die of heat exposure etc, I also know of a good few who have done the same as do other people I know.

I always wonder why in farming you can never say anything even if wrong doing is going on,and actually this extreme weather just makes it so much worse for all the stock who are being neglected. It is always ok to indicate this sort of thing goes on in say horse dealing or the likes,but for some reason it is a sin to say it happens in farming and some of my family are in the industry.

I actually think it is rather naive to pretend it is not,or to think it hardly ever happens if this is the case I must live in a rural area with the highest incidence ever in that case.
 
Trinity Fox said:
As I have already said I am not trying to tar all with the same brush or I would have to include members of my family,Yorks g you may think I am being naive but look a couple of posts down Moomin1 state they know of a good few who have let stock freeze drown die of heat exposure etc, I also know of a good few who have done the same as do other people I know.

I always wonder why in farming you can never say anything even if wrong doing is going on,and actually this extreme weather just makes it so much worse for all the stock who are being neglected. It is always ok to indicate this sort of thing goes on in say horse dealing or the likes,but for some reason it is a sin to say it happens in farming and some of my family are in the industry.

I actually think it is rather naive to pretend it is not,or to think it hardly ever happens if this is the case I must live in a rural area with the highest incidence ever in that case.
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Your diatribe about neglectful farmers was in respons to the OP about why stock was left out in the awful weather conditions, thus implying that all those with stock on the hills etc were the neglectful farmers, this is not the case. Of course there are farmers who are not good at their jobs, just as in aany other profession, but to the answerthe OP as you did, given the knowlege you claim to have was purely sensationalism imo
 
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Trinity Fox said:
As I have already said I am not trying to tar all with the same brush or I would have to include members of my family,Yorks g you may think I am being naive but look a couple of posts down Moomin1 state they know of a good few who have let stock freeze drown die of heat exposure etc, I also know of a good few who have done the same as do other people I know.

I always wonder why in farming you can never say anything even if wrong doing is going on,and actually this extreme weather just makes it so much worse for all the stock who are being neglected. It is always ok to indicate this sort of thing goes on in say horse dealing or the likes,but for some reason it is a sin to say it happens in farming and some of my family are in the industry.

I actually think it is rather naive to pretend it is not,or to think it hardly ever happens if this is the case I must live in a rural area with the highest incidence ever in that case.
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I have also known of hundreds of people who I deal with daily who neglect their dogs/cats/horses/hamsters/chickens..you name it..

It's no sin to say it happens in ALL areas of animal husbandry. But what I am saying is that to tar other farmers for the failings of some, is like tarring every dog owner for the failings of those who neglect them.
 
Trinity Fox said:
I always wonder why in farming you can never say anything even if wrong doing is going on,and actually this extreme weather just makes it so much worse for all the stock who are being neglected. It is always ok to indicate this sort of thing goes on in say horse dealing or the likes,but for some reason it is a sin to say it happens in farming and some of my family are in the industry.
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A late night thought for you:
whenever a failing in NHS or Civil Service of any sort happens, we hear and read on here how overworked and underpaid are the people involved and how it isn't their fault and that we should be happy that we get anything at all;
whenever stock suffers, it's the horrible greedy farmers being neglectful and just plain lazy - they are also overworked and underpaid, so maybe we should be happy that someone, somewhere cares a bit...
and you know what, it's us, either as the taxpayer or the consumer, who pay badly and demand silly hours from both quarters, not some sort of ''them''
 
martlin said:
A late night thought for you:
whenever a failing in NHS or Civil Service of any sort happens, we hear and read on here how overworked and underpaid are the people involved and how it isn't their fault and that we should be happy that we get anything at all;
whenever stock suffers, it's the horrible greedy farmers being neglectful and just plain lazy - they are also overworked and underpaid, so maybe we should be happy that someone, somewhere cares a bit...
and you know what, it's us, either as the taxpayer or the consumer, who pay badly and demand silly hours from both quarters, not some sort of ''them''
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I for one don't think that NHS workers or farmers are badly paid or that we as consumers demand silly hours from either. I think we are all talking from our own experiences and our views are dependant on our locality and as usual alot of us have different ideas on the same subject. There are good and bad farmers, same as any area of life and they certainly have varying animal welfare standards.....would be foolish not to think so. I also don't buy the how hard life is for sheep farmers at this time of year, the hours are long for a few weeks, but no one is forced to farm sheep and there are other times of the year when there isn't alot of work to be done....the weather has made this spring alot harder for sheep farmers in some areas....there are people complaining about lambing on this thread who are in areas with no snow. I live on a farm, to say the farmer here is casual about the welfare of his sheep and cattle would be an understatement.
 
You see, I don't think anybody has been actually complaining about lambing, snow or no snow, I'm certainly not complaining, although I am tired. I think people have been just trying to show a little bit of on-farm reality to the non farming folk, who maybe saw Adam on Countryfile, or Kate Humble on lambing live ;)

PS. I actually quite like Adam from Countryfile and would not swap jobs with him for love nor money, I'd rather lamb all night, every night than deal with people :D
 
martlin said:
A late night thought for you:
whenever a failing in NHS or Civil Service of any sort happens, we hear and read on here how overworked and underpaid are the people involved and how it isn't their fault and that we should be happy that we get anything at all;
whenever stock suffers, it's the horrible greedy farmers being neglectful and just plain lazy - they are also overworked and underpaid, so maybe we should be happy that someone, somewhere cares a bit...
and you know what, it's us, either as the taxpayer or the consumer, who pay badly and demand silly hours from both quarters, not some sort of ''them''
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No we bloomin don't! All we hear is people saying how useless the NHS are, just like they do certain charities who are over run more than anyone could imagine.

The NHS get slaughtered for any failings.

There are failings in every single company, charity, organisation etc that exists. But the ones who are actively involved with highly emotive issues, ie human health or animal welfare, are always in the firing line with the slightest thing that annoys Joe Public. Nobody bothers, after all, about going to the press to report that their weekly newspaper, for instance, never gets delivered on time and is crumpled when it does arrive...

People unfortunately always look at the negatives with regard people who are involved with human and animal welfare. The press have little interest in reporting the positives, unless the can report it as a 'miracle' recovery etc. They are more interested in reporting highly exaggerated and negative stories which are likely to get Joe Public interested in the story and in turn riled and angry at the so called 'offenders' which the press have spoken about.

Human hysteria is a bizarre thing - one bad experience leads to so many exaggerations and hyped up 'stories' which have very little realism or truth in them..
 
Moomin1 said:
No we bloomin don't! All we hear is people saying how useless the NHS are, just like they do certain charities who are over run more than anyone could imagine.

The NHS get slaughtered for any failings.

There are failings in every single company, charity, organisation etc that exists. But the ones who are actively involved with highly emotive issues, ie human health or animal welfare, are always in the firing line with the slightest thing that annoys Joe Public. Nobody bothers, after all, about going to the press to report that their weekly newspaper, for instance, never gets delivered on time and is crumpled when it does arrive...

People unfortunately always look at the negatives with regard people who are involved with human and animal welfare. The press have little interest in reporting the positives, unless the can report it as a 'miracle' recovery etc. They are more interested in reporting highly exaggerated and negative stories which are likely to get Joe Public interested in the story and in turn riled and angry at the so called 'offenders' which the press have spoken about.

Human hysteria is a bizarre thing - one bad experience leads to so many exaggerations and hyped up 'stories' which have very little realism or truth in them..
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I think you might be going off at a tangent just a bit.....are you talking about the RSPCA here ? I thought we were discussing farming but I could be wrong ......
 
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