Farmers lung.

[joss111]

I was diagnosed with farmers lung back in February, I improved a lot when I stopped handling hay (hubby does it now) and stopped mucking out. During the summer my CT scan of my lungs showed improvement but of course the horses were out 24/7. Since the beginning of October they have been in at night and my cough has started again. I am still not handling hay but I am mucking out wood pellet beds wearing 2 masks, an FFP3 mask and a powered respirator. So my question is - is there anyone else struggling with farmers lung, I am considering changing from wood pellets (which can be dusty) to chopped rape straw. Unfortunately cannot try paper as muck goes in a skip and company won't take paper or cardboard. Doctors have warned me I might have to give up my horses and my yard, and after keeping horses for over 50yrs I am devastated at the thought of this. Sadly it isn't an option to keep them out, the fields are too wet. Those of you who use rape straw does it produce a lot of dust? My antigen was aspergillus which isnt the usual cause of farmers lung, but its found everywhere - in mould, decomposing leaves, compost wood chip etc. My horses beds are dry, no mold at all but they can be dusty so I am thinking thats the cause. I have never handled mouldy hay or straw, we make our own hay and its beautiful hay. I can cope without handling hay as hubby is happy to do that, but I cannot expect him to muck out as well.

 

[Sprout]

I really feel for you.
I have lung/airway damage, and am permanently on 2 inhalers. My horses live out most of the year, but do occasionally come in when the weather is bad. I use rubber mats and a dust free shavings, but I still have to use a professional mask with filters to muck out and handle the hay, but even so, my cough and breathing very quickly becomes much worse.
I hope you can find a way to continue. Xx

 

[Red-1]

I use Raviera rape straw. It is variable! I had an awful cough early in lockdown, wondered if it was corona, but then realised how dusty the new batch was. Gave it a shake u and took this photo on my phone!

When we moved from shavings to rape straw at work, many people who had not had trouble before started to. We all started to wear masks, when none of us would have bothered before.

So, no, I don't find rape straw to be dust free.

Having said that, the last batch of the same stuff is not as bad as this.

 

[paddy555]

oh dear. OH was in a similar position many years ago but fortunately he managed to step back from it before it was too late. The things we did with the horses were that I dealt with all hay until it was soaked. Bale went into the bath, soaked and drained and then it was a lot safer to handle plus of course it makes the stable a lot safer when you have to go into it.
We got rid of straw beds and deep litter shavings beds and went for the fieldguard stable mat system. This uses minimal shavings and would make mucking out very much easier. We chose fieldguard over ordinary mats as ordinary ones need a lot more shavings.

The mats are designed for minimal shavings, we use just a basket full. Breaking the job down we sweep the stable floor in the morning (we leave the clean areas), takes a minute a stable so perhaps your OH could help there. Then after leaving it to settle you could go along and scoop it up into the barrow and remove. At night we sprinkle a basket of shavings over the bed by shaking them though a supermarket basket. Takes about a minute a stable so perhaps OH could help here again. That job could be done late afternoon either.

If the horse is in in the daytime and we are around we just use the scoop to pick up droppings. Very little dust there.

There are lots of dust extracted shavings (which I know only minimise the dust) and we use makes with a larger shaving size.

That system made so much difference to my OH and if your OH could perhaps just give you a couple of minutes sweeping you may be able to get away with it.
Horrible problem, I hope you can get sorted.

 

[ycbm]

Although I would really hate it, rather than give up horses i would move to the soft mats which are just about acceptable with no bedding at all.

Can you use peat? And maybe deep bed it and get it cleared out in spring?

 

[joss111]

Thank you, I already soak hay, or rather OH does so thats not a problem. I can't imagine using minimal shavings like, mine are on rubber mats with a half bed of wood pellets but I think they would just end up lying in muck if I didn't give them a decent bed, and to be honest it goes against everything I have ever done! Will look into the fieldguard mats but can't see it working for me. I like a nice deepish bed even on mats.

 

[joss111]

Although I would really hate it, rather than give up horses i would move to the soft mats which are just about acceptable with no bedding at all.

Can you use peat? And maybe deep bed it and get it cleared out in spring?

I think peat is a definite no, one of the things I have been told to avoid is compost, as its full of aspergillus so I think peat would be the same.

 

[ycbm]

Do you like your wood pellets dry? I always used mine pretty damp and they are dust free that way but maybe that also encourages mould growth?

I'm wracking my brains for what else you can do!
.

 

[ycbm]

2-4mm pea gravel? You would need a barrier in the doorway to stop it running out the door. Wee would run to the bottom and you could flush through with a hose. You would lose some stuck to poop, but it probably wouldn't cost any more than replacing wet bedding. I've tried sand but it didn't seem to drain well enough, strangely.

 

[SEL]

I'm currently using dust extracted pro bed for the pony being investigated for breathing problems and I'm finding I'm a lot less wheezy around it then wood pellets.

http://www.probale.com/probed/

 

[HazuraJane]

Sorry if I'm overstating the obvious, but can you wear a filtering mask? In this time of Covid, we are mandated to wear masks unless we are in the arena riding, and after a time of adjustment, I no longer notice that I'm wearing it.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Thank you, I already soak hay, or rather OH does so thats not a problem. I can't imagine using minimal shavings like, mine are on rubber mats with a half bed of wood pellets but I think they would just end up lying in muck if I didn't give them a decent bed, and to be honest it goes against everything I have ever done! Will look into the fieldguard mats but can't see it working for me. I like a nice deepish bed even on mats.

But stable mats have evolved to offer more options than just being basic stable mats.

Some brands really seems to be designed for more comfort than others, for example:

Comfortstall

Softstall

 

[paddy555]

Although I would really hate it, rather than give up horses i would move to the soft mats which are just about acceptable with no bedding at all.

Can you use peat? And maybe deep bed it and get it cleared out in spring?

have you bedded on deep litter peat? I have when I was trying to reduce dust, disgusting. Same as deep litter shavings or anything really. Just a deep mass of urine soaked bedding that gets higher as you add to it.

what bedding do you use on your barn floor?

can you explain why they need bedding? is it to soak up wee? in which case you have wet urine soaked bedding on the surface for them to lie on, is it to give them a nice soft mattress in which case do you provide a mattress in the field in case they want to lie down?
if a horse wees on pea gravel it is going to be exposed to the air and stink. There are a limited number of times a person can stand in a stable all night to hose down the pea gravel every time a horse wees. Where is the water you flush through going to go to? You would need the pea gravel on concrete to be able to clean it thoroughly in which case the horse would get down to concrete as it moved or alternatively if the gravel is on earth there will be a soggy earthy surface at the bottom not draining anywhere.

 

[joss111]

Yes have looked at these, do they not just end up standing in a pool of wee with minimal bedding?

 

[paddy555]

But stable mats have evolved to offer more options than just being basic stable mats.

Some brands really seems to be designed for more comfort than others, for example:

Comfortstall

Softstall

interesting, I hadn't seen those makes, will have a proper look later. The foal on the softstall one looks very cuddly

 

[cauda equina]

I use BedSoft Bio chopped rape straw, also meant to be dust extracted but some bags do still make me cough.

Looking at it from the other end, might there be some other way to dispose of your muckings-out which would allow you to use paper or cardboard?

 

[BronsonNutter]

Could you hire a freelance groom just for mucking out and hay duties?
My other suggestion would be deep sand pens - my friend converted their indoor arena (too small & deep for riding in) into stables and it’s the easiest mucking out ever! Never damp either so guess it depends on the drainage.

 

[joss111]

Sorry if I'm overstating the obvious, but can you wear a filtering mask? In this time of Covid, we are mandated to wear masks unless we are in the arena riding, and after a time of adjustment, I no longer notice that I'm wearing it.

I wear 2 masks, an FFP3 mask plus a powered respirator like this

 

[ycbm]

have you bedded on deep litter peat? I have when I was trying to reduce dust, disgusting. Same as deep litter shavings or anything really. Just a deep mass of urine soaked bedding that gets higher as you add to it.

what bedding do you use on your barn floor?

can you explain why they need bedding? is it to soak up wee? in which case you have wet urine soaked bedding on the surface for them to lie on, is it to give them a nice soft mattress in which case do you provide a mattress in the field in case they want to lie down?
if a horse wees on pea gravel it is going to be exposed to the air and stink. There are a limited number of times a person can stand in a stable all night to hose down the pea gravel every time a horse wees. Where is the water you flush through going to go to? You would need the pea gravel on concrete to be able to clean it thoroughly in which case the horse would get down to concrete as it moved or alternatively if the gravel is on earth there will be a soggy earthy surface at the bottom not draining anywhere.

That sounds like a pretty aggressive answer to some suggestions intended to think outside the box the OP is stuck in Paddy. I'm not sure what I've done to deserve that.

I have had earth floor stables twice in the past and they work brilliantly. I would choose them again. My barn is an earth floor on top of concrete. I occasionally sprinkle some shavings on wet bits, the pine resin stops any smell.

Pea gravel would not smell any worse than mats with no or minimal bedding, a system used by many.

To make a stable drain, you slope the floor. My stables all have sloping floors, one already there and one I installed.

 

[maya2008]

If you have enough land and it is dry enough, rug up well and keep them out 24/7. I have a TB who has lived out almost all her life, including when in work. She actually winters better out, and I never used to clip her, just didn’t work her enough that she sweated too much (her coat is pathetic at the best of times). People think their horses can’t live out, but most retired horses do, and youngstock do... With enough roughage to keep the internal fires burning, they are fine even in the worst snow. You can provide rugs as ‘shelter’.

I have allergies - bedding leaves me almost unable to breathe unless I am very careful. OH handles all hay/haylage, horses live out (all natives except for the TB). No issues.

 

[hollyandivy123]

https://sundownproducts.co.uk/equin...MI6tnxyui77AIVieR3Ch156AvhEAAYASAAEgKB4vD_BwE

or

https://www.cavierabedding.co.uk/

never used these but it appears to be dust free

 

[honetpot]

I have tried just about every bedding and I think dust wise Aubiose is about the best, as it more like small balsa wood chips to expose the core of the plant.
Its the lack of flow in the stables as well, perhaps if you can improve the air flow, I only have half walls,and add vents or extra half doors, it would improve the hanging dust. If I had lots of money cow mattresses and sand.
http://northbrookdairy.com/uncatego...-supports-your-business-and-your-cows-better/

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Yes have looked at these, do they not just end up standing in a pool of wee with minimal bedding?

As I've understood it, a minimal amount of bedding on top of the mat is supposed to soak up urine (at least I saw a video about it promoting the Softstall mat). If they then choose to stand, or lay themselves down, on that spot, then yes, they will be standing/laying in their own pee, but as Paddy555 mentions, you have that risk also with other beddings.

Even if you have a really thick, deep bed, where the urine seep down into the bottom of the bed, it doesn't mean the urine didn't come in contact with the top layers of the bedding on its way down.
ETA If a horse have a whole stable to choose where to stand/lie down in, and they choose to stand/lie down exactly where they just peed, then isn't that a little bit up to them?

 

[paddy555]

Yes have looked at these, do they not just end up standing in a pool of wee with minimal bedding?

exactly, which is why the fieldguard ones work as they have a means of draining the wee so the surface remains dry.

 

[ester]

What is your base? Does it drain well? we have mats + bedding (mayo eva mats) and the urine does run underneath them towards to the door even with bedding.

I use aubiose in the house for the guinea pigs, partly because I think it has less dust than the alternatives. I have used a few rape straw brands on livery and all tend to hit the back of your throat a bit even the ones without anti-eating oils.
We use unbranded mole valley miscanthus for the horses deep littered but I've not spend enough time with it (horses with mum) to thoroughly assess the dust situ.

 

[Regandal]

My first thought was sand as well. Could you make a hard standing area in one of the fields, have them live out?

 

[paddy555]

That sounds like a pretty aggressive answer to some suggestions intended to think outside the box the OP is stuck in Paddy. I'm not sure what I've done to deserve that.

I have had earth floor stables twice in the past and they work brilliantly. I would choose them again. My barn is an earth floor on top of concrete. I occasionally sprinkle some shavings on wet bits, the pine resin stops any smell.

Pea gravel would not smell any worse than mats with no or minimal bedding, a system used by many.

To make a stable drain, you slope the floor. My stables all have sloping floors, one already there and one I installed.

I am sorry you found it aggressive, it was not meant to be. I may have misread your post 5. so apologies.

 

[ycbm]

I am sorry you found it aggressive, it was not meant to be. I may have misread your post 5. so apologies.

Thankyou for that, P.

 

[laura_nash]

Does Red Bed still exist? They had it at Moor Wood Stables when I went on a course there, it was like pink clay pellets and was dust and mould free. I haven't heard of it since though and that was years ago.

 

[holeymoley]

I really feel for you. You say you use wood pellets, have you tried straw pellets? These are supposed to be less dusty than wood ones.