Farrier - Apprentice = Annoyed customer

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Silverspring

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I'm not sure if I'm over reacting so I though I would ask how everyone would feel if the following happened:

Call farrier to book my horse in for her feet getting trimmed leave message as no answer.
Farrier calls back and leaves message saying HE can come out on such and sucha day in the morning
I call back leave a message saying that's great will see him then
Farrier calls back leaves a message saying HE won't be there til half 9 (usually there first thing)

So the day arrives and my horse is in with clean dry feet waiting for the farrier. Van arrives which does not belong to farrier and farrier's apprentice gets out (he's been shoeing for 4 months so not that far into training) he says he's going to do horse's feet as quote 'It's only a trim'

Now I keep my horse barefoot and in full time work, her feet though unshod are very important and need to be well balanced and healthy which is why I pay for a FARRIER to do them.

Would I be fair in calling my farrier and requesting that he at least comes to check the job the apprentice done? My horse could have any number of things wrong with her feet that I wouldn't know about since I'm not a fully trained farrier, I feel like my farrier doesn't care as he's not getting paid for a full set of shoes.

To top it all off I paid full FARRIER price for a trim, if I went to get my hair cut by a trainee I would expect a discount!

Ok rant over, well done anyone who got this far
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I've heard of farriers doing this before - sending the apprentices out - very frustrating - esp to have the cheek to charge full price - unsupervised as well? What is the point in an apprenticeship?
 
I wouldn't have allowed him to do the horse I'm afraid. An apprentice should only be working with a registered farrier present.
 
agree with Amymay sorry, the apprentice should not have touched the horse's feet without supervision. I would report the farrier and apprentice.
 
Normally the apprentices boss/ATF will give them a detailed explanation of what to do for each horse.

I too would question why an apprentice is carrying out work unsupervised if you say he has only been training for 4 months.

Usually apprentices aren't let loose unsupervised until they are more advanced and into their 2nd/3rd years at least.

Farriers don't normally offer a discount if an apprentice has shod.

The issue I would raise with the main Farrier is as to why a farrier who has only been training 4 months as carried out work unsupervised and if need be the FRC should be advised too.
 
are they actually allowed to send an apprentice off on there own to do jobs? i don't think i would have let him do it either. I would ask the farrier to come and check the work just for your peace of mind
 
OK, has the apprentice been shoeing for 4 months, or out on the rounds for 4 months? There is a big difference!
Also, are you sure this is the lads first 'job'? Many lads move around the country under diferent ATFs, so whilst he may have been with your farrier for 4months, he could well be in his 2nd year of his apprenticeship for example.

By all means ask the farrier to check the feet over, but the apprentice wouldn't be out alone if the boss wasn't adamant that the lad was able to do a satisfactory job - it wouldn't be worth his reputation.

As for the discount, I disagree. If the lad can do the job, he can do the job and should be paid without quibble or hard feeling. And don't forget the saying about peanuts and monkeys
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[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have allowed him to do the horse I'm afraid. An apprentice should only be working with a registered farrier present.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely untrue.

The apprentice can go out alone at the discretion of the ATF (approved training farrier), though there are guidelines/timescales in place.
 
Agree with Bounty. There is a HUGE difference if has been shoeing for 4 months rather than training for 4 months. My farrier has an apprentice who does the trims whilst the farrier is shoeing and does an excellent job although not allowed out on his own yet. I still pay the normal rate for the apprentice doing it rather than the main farrier.
 
I agree with Oofa and Bounty.

My horses are done by either my farrier or his 3 apprentices.
More often than not i actually have 2 apprentices turn up to shoe - 2 of the apprentices are nearly finished there training and do fab jobs of all my horses feet - be they trims or full sets of shoes.
Another girl recently turned up on the scene - has moved from another area and has been doing it for about a year - her work isnt as good and because of this she tends to go round with my actual farrier to learn how to be better.

I really dont see why you should pay less because the apprentice did them? he is entitled to his money the same as the farrier and i bet he actually has to give most or all of it to his boss anyway.

Has the apprentice actually done a bad job on your horses feet??
 
As others have said, I think it comes down to how far in his training the apprentice is and the quality of the work he did.

I used to have an apprentice out to trim my mares feet for a year. I'd put her barefoot because she was a nightmare to shoe (had to be tranq'd or tried to kill the farrier).

I was a bit unsure the first time the apprentice came out (also with no warning and on his own), but it worked out really well. He was much more patient and laid back than the farrier, and somehow didn't affect my mare in the same way as most farriers (I guess he didn't 'smell' like a farrier or something).

I never had any problems with her feet whilst he did her, and at the end of the year the apprentice started shoeing her. When I moved I had to get a different farrier out and discovered that her fear of shoeing had been cured completely, never had any trouble again in four more years of owning her.

Sorry to ramble, but my point is that having the apprentice trim your horses feet isn't always a bad thing.
 
Ok to answer a few questions that arose, as far as I am aware the apprentice has been shoeing for about 4 months BUT I have never seen him shoe anyone else's horse, he's always helped the farrier then done the clenches and rasped etc.

I don't think he's done a bad job of her feet but I don't really know much about it, I've only kept her barefoot for 3 months
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I know what I do and don't like in a shod horse but have little knowledge of barefeet.

I think ym main grudge was the fact that a) the farrier did not make me aware of the fact he wasn't coming, given the choice I could have made my own decision as to whether I wanted him or was happy for the apprentice and b) I paid for a farrier to do a job and he didn't even check the job his apprentice had done. I've seen plenty of farriers and apprentice teams where the appentice does everything with the shoes BUT the farrier always checks the job. I didn't get thus courtesy.

I wouldn't report him as he's a nice guy but I think I'm going to specify he'll be coming out with the apprentice or I'll be changing farrier
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Had this problems with my old farrier...we would book him to come and do several horses on the yard, and a gang of unsupervised apprentices would turn up. To be fair, most of the time they did a good job, but you never knew who was turning up. Then one unsupervised apprentice gave my horse a nail prick, and cut his hoof too short, he ended up with an abscess.
I know things like that can and do happen, but the same guy was always involved whenever anyone had a problem it always turned out to be him that was responsible.

My OH rang the registered farrier who was responsible and pointed out to him that actually he was to be held accountable for his apprentices work, and to be fair he did sort the problem out and started directly supervising the lad.

However, I have been with another farrier for the last year, its always him that comes, he does a brilliant job and I wouldnt have anyone else.
 
I had a similar issue. The farrier who is fantastic & hugely experienced sent one of his ex-apprentice/newly qualified out to do my pony. Shoes kept coming off, pigeon toe got worse etc. I was not very happy and in a very similar situation, paying the same amount as I would for the head honcho. So I called him & politely explained that I was willing to pay for experience. My pony was borderline remedial anyway and I needed someone who has far more practical experience than 1yr to do his feet.
I then made the appointments well in advance so that I get him & ONLY him. Yes I would turn the new one away if he was to arrive one day without the experienced one closely behind.
PS His feet are much better & rarely if ever looses shoes now.
 
an apprentice training for 4 months, should be able to trim, undersupervision.

Unsupervised at four months?!!! no! not a bloody chance,
My boss asked me to trim a foal at six months and i refused as i wasnt competent enough to perform the task..

Speak with your farrier, raise your displeasure..
However, if your horses are shod by an ATF then you need to expect to have apprentices work on them

Lou x
 
Apprentice Farriers spend a lot of time trimming, before they start shoeing. The fact that he has only been SHOEING for four months will not affect his ability to trim correctly.
Once an apprentice is seen as competant according to his trainer, then it is quite usual to allow them to trim unsupervised.
Personally, I think you are over reacting. sorry.
 
My dear Princess Sparkle ,
Both My children trained as Farriers . Let me start by telling you that after a year residential at college then finding an ATF Approved training Farrier to you ,Then block release at college every six months forging exams written oral practical exams .Which at any one time they can fail and be made to resit by going back again .

Added to that is a 14 hour day for most hard slog back breaking work . Your so called apprentice would not of been on his own if had he firstly not been assessed by the Atf then assesed by his college . Oh and for your information the money paid is the ATF's money it does not end up in the pocket of the apprentice whom I might add gets a measley wage .

I can assure you your apprentice was not breaking any laws and would be looked after by the ATF whom I am sure would not of sent him to you if he wasnt capable of doing a trim.

As you say nothing is wrong with your horse sounds to me you just think that you are worth the bosses attention rather than the oiley rag ...Yes you are over reacting lets hope you never need an apprentice in an emergency, shame their commitment is to the horse and not the other way around the human . I,m damm sure you would be pleased to see them then ...
You need to climb down off your high horse lady ...put your brain in gear ..You think you are the only VIP client maybe he was off dealing with a real emergency obviously your trim comes first well obviously not .

If I were you I would swop farriers he sounds like he's better off without you . All the best


PS they trim from very early on they shoe from the second year the fact that he had only been shoeing four months does not mean that he has not been at college shoeing for years Oh they use real horses there as well ..

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i would not allow an appertice to do my horse purely because he needs remedial shoeing however if it was my mare i wouldn't mind, i would want the ATF to be present.

but remember every farrier started somewhere and without practise we aren't going to have any farriers left and we are already low of qualified ones anyway.
 
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