Farrier issues

[shannonandtay]

We have had our pony three years, we have had him barefoot some of this time and he seems to do well up until the ground becomes hard and his doing more work in summer then we put fronts on. My issue is that he dislikes being shod especially the nails being banged in, my farrier has always been good and patient and has let me feed pony treats which does help considerably. Last time he came for some reason he decided that the pony wasn't going to be given treats anymore and needed to 'man up'. So the shoeing wasn't terrible but he did start pulling away and being a pain which made me nervous as I was worried he was going to hurt the farrier. He said pony is being an idiot but pony is very good at all times normally and with vet, dentist etc so god knows why.

So I have decided I don't want this worry again this time round and in my opinion pony will just become worse until its impossible to get shoes on. There is another farrier at our yard who seems to do the more difficult horses, he is very quiet and will spend the time as needed to get things done. He will also allow me to feed treats if I feel this is helpful. For some strange reason I feel really bad about changing to a new farrier and don't know quite what to say, any ideas? in a nice way lol. Maybe he was just in a bad mood last time but as the time has come nearer to the next shoeing I'm getting stressed about it.

 

[NellRosk]

It could be the farrier causing this problem but you say he's good with the vet and dentist so to me your pony is trying to tell you it hurts him being shod. What is his diet like? Some tweaks could ensure he can cope all year round being barefoot.

 

[JillA]

Don't say anything - it isn't up to you to justify your decision. If you already have a pre arranged appointment cancel it - no need to give a reason - and then set about finding someone better. A bad farrier experience can scar a youngster for life and make him a problem.
If you do feel you have to explain yourself, maybe give him an ultimatum - either treat the pony the way YOU want him to or you will find someone else. Then it is his choice.

 

[Holly7]

Hi

Can I ask why you want to put the shoes back on? If your pony is going footy when the ground becomes hard then really the pony is trying to tell you something.

Have you looked at their diet and exercise regime up the point of footiness?

If the farrier is advising you to have your pony "man up" , then I would be changing farriers!

Personally, my homebred mare has had countless problems with her feet and we have been in and out of shoes since being backed. Needless to say we have just been diagnosed with navicular syndrome. Previous to this she had been shod and would go lame, then sound, then lame. Sometimes she was lame after being shod or trimmed. We even had her shoes off for a period of time as farrier didn't know what else to do!!! They were put the on when I increased her road work (when the issues had resolved) and I only put them on as the farrier insisted that she needed them if doing loads of road work. Following other issues and injuries shes was diagnosed NS. (she is 7 this May)

So, I have turned my back on all conventional methods, I have gone barefoot, and my oh my what a difference she is. I have read countless books and journals about navicular and barefoot and have to say, if I ever own another horse it will be barefoot all the way. Diet and exercise are key though.

Good luck

 

[shannonandtay]

Thank you for all your replies, I did mention to him that I thought it possible to be pain related he just said his being an idiot, so yes I think I need to change. I've had shoes back on since September when he went foot sore after a sponsored ride (he has fronts only), I haven't taken them off this winter as daughter was doing some hunt rides and I didn't want him sore again. He has hi if lite and hay only, I'm not one for lots of treats or carrots etc as i like to keep things simple and he does well on this.

 

[NellRosk]

Thank you for all your replies, I did mention to him that I thought it possible to be pain related he just said his being an idiot, so yes I think I need to change. I've had shoes back on since September when he went foot sore after a sponsored ride (he has fronts only), I haven't taken them off this winter as daughter was doing some hunt rides and I didn't want him sore again. He has hi if lite and hay only, I'm not one for lots of treats or carrots etc as i like to keep things simple and he does well on this.

Yes definitely need to change. Please feel free to disregard me but a good vit and min supplement could help his feet. Progressive Earth do one on ebay called Pro Balance which is very cost effective. A slightly more expensive one is the Forage Plus balancer. Hi fi lite does have a bit of sugar in IIRC so the hi fi molasses free might be a better option as sugar has a detrimental effect on the hooves. Also micronised linseed has done my mares hooves wonders. You said he went foot sore after a sponsored ride, when bf they need their workload building up gradually so that could have been the reason he went sore, his feet just weren't used to the mileage asked of them.

 

[shannonandtay]

Thank you for your advice, I have thought about pro balance before but I'm going to order tonight and not just think about it as for the hi if I have spoken to dengie before and they said because he just has token feeds he should be fine with the lite but I think once I come to the end of this bag I will swop to molasses free. I'm going to take shoes off and see how we go. Just a quick question if im already feeding magnesium do I need to stop if I'm giving pro balance ? As I would imagine this already has it in it if anyone knows.

 

[NellRosk]

Good luck!! Hmm I don't feed mine magnesium so don't feel qualified to comment but you could always drop it and see how you get on? I know some people feed it in spring to help their horses cope with the additional sugar of spring grass. Also if you sign up to the phoenix forum everyone there is so helpful on all matters bf!!

http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org

 

[Welly]

If you decided to have him shod you might try giving some bute/danilon the night before and on the day and see if it helps, at least you will know whether it's pain related. And some ponies do need shoes for thee work they are doing.

 

[Graeme Burt farrier]

Don't say anything - it isn't up to you to justify your decision. If you already have a pre arranged appointment cancel it - no need to give a reason - and then set about finding someone better. A bad farrier experience can scar a youngster for life and make him a problem.
If you do feel you have to explain yourself, maybe give him an ultimatum - either treat the pony the way YOU want him to or you will find someone else. Then it is his choice.

As a farrier I 100% agree with this.

I am not a believer in the macho attitude, especially where horses are concerned.
Just how does a horse 'man-up?' Its not a man, its a horse. Personally I couldnt care less what kind of distraction is used to keep horses happy, as long as they keep still its ok with me. Safer for the horse, and safer for everyone else.

 

[shannonandtay]

As a farrier I 100% agree with this.

I am not a believer in the macho attitude, especially where horses are concerned.
Just how does a horse 'man-up?' Its not a man, its a horse. Personally I couldnt care less what kind of distraction is used to keep horses happy, as long as they keep still its ok with me. Safer for the horse, and safer for everyone else.

Thank you so much this is exactly my point. I just want to take the stress out of the shoeing and if I am not able to do that I worry about him injuring either himself or the farrier and I don't want this worry all the time. It makes me feel nervous which in turn is probably making the pony worse.

 

[MissMistletoe]

As a farrier I 100% agree with this.

I am not a believer in the macho attitude, especially where horses are concerned.
Just how does a horse 'man-up?' Its not a man, its a horse. Personally I couldnt care less what kind of distraction is used to keep horses happy, as long as they keep still its ok with me. Safer for the horse, and safer for everyone else.

Fully agree!

My gelding isn't a fan of the nailing in part, so a bucket of pony nuts is put under his snout for this part.

Iv'e had two Farriers shoe this boy and neither of them ever dictated whether I should or not use the bucket of pony nuts! It allows them to complete their job and pony is a happy bunny for it.

My latest Farrier sayes "whatever works is fine by me"

My friends's Farrier is a big burly looking chap with an ego to match and is a tad too quick to dig the rasp into the horse's belly when friend's back is turned.

I would find another Farrier if i were you.

 

[shannonandtay]

Thanks everyone for all your replies, I know I can rely on good advice from this forum if I'm unsure what to do. I think we might try to go barefoot again but if his more comfortable with fronts on then that's what we will do. A definite change of farrier is what I need to do first. I feel much more positive this morning. Thanks

 

[shergar]

There is an advert at the side of this page confidence EQ For stress free shoeing that may be useful if you have problems . Or Google PAX FOR HORSES my friend uses it for her mare that was really scared of the dentist ,it has a very calming affect .

 

[Alyth]

For many years my horses have been barefoot....many years ago I wanted to do an endurance ride and the rules said my horse had to be shod....so the farrier came, 3 hooves were fine but he was getting antsy so we twitched him for shoeing the last hoof......fast forward a year, shoes had come off, barefoot trimmed (different trimmer) no problems.....and the same rules applied so I booked the farrier again....he walked down the track towards the pens and Spider was terrified....all 4 legs were bent and he was SHAKING....a calm Appy who never worried about anything ..... so no shoes on any of my horses since then...I listened to what Spider was saying to me

 

[shannonandtay]

I was looking at the confidence eq and thought it might be worth a try, I'm sure I saw somewhere that it's like the adaptil and feliway for dogs and cats which actually put me off as it certainly doesn't work for my dog, but it could be worth a try. I would be interested to hear if anyone has used it and it's made a difference.

Alyth - I say the same he does not want shoes lol, unfortunately I haven't managed to keep him happy barefoot all year round but will try again and see how we go.

 

[Nudibranch]

Boots?

 

[shannonandtay]

Boots?[/

I'm not confident in getting the right ones or the right fit, its a possibility though.

 

[Nudibranch]

Have a look at the Cavallo website, tells you exactly how to measure up. They do various boots and you can match up a suitable style. E.g. round feet do well in Simples and longer in Sport. Personally I hate the Sport fastening but anyway, its not as hard as you might worry.

 

[shannonandtay]

Thank you I will have a look.

 

[Boulty]

I'm another in the camp of the pony may be trying to tell you something. Unfortunately they can't speak English so this could be anything from "I don't like this guy" (in which case he may be fine with a different farrier) to "This feels funny and I don't like it" (in which case time, patience and distraction may all help, oh and a rubber mallet as they create less vibration) to "This hurts"

My pony was very difficult to shoe and I went through 3 different farriers trying to figure out a way to manage him. The first guy he landed a kick on and was generally tense around so i wondered if he just didn't like the guy. Second farrier he had slightly less reaction to (still was difficult though) and is probably the guy who least injuries to all parties occurred with. Unfortunately he was very hard to get hold of and actually get an appointment with so I got fed up and switched again. 3rd farrier was very patient with him but his behaviour was very hit and miss and I started to worry about the safety of everyone involved. Horse was also on-off lame (sidebone) and had long toes and less than ideal foot balance (a little difficult to sort out when shoe has to be put on before horse can rear and send it flying through the air).

This horse is now barefoot and I'm still struggling to get on top of his sensitivity issues. Theory held by me and a few others is that having the nails hammered in hurt and that's why horse would be fine right up to that point and then turn himself inside out to try and get away. Not saying that is your problem just saying that's the conclusion we reached with mine.

 

[Alyth]

Boots?

^^^^ I wish there were a like button

 

[shannonandtay]

Boulty - thank you for sharing your experience, the things you have pointed out are all things I have thought might be causing the issue, firstly I will change my farrier and then take it from there. Im more than happy to try barefoot again and will make a couple of changes to see if it makes any difference to being able to keep him barefoot but realise I may just have to alternate between shoes and barefoot.

 

[Elsbells]

I just wish someone in the last so many hundred years would of come up with a shoe that isn't made of metal, works as well as metal, isn't glue on, expensive and isn't a boot.

Come on you farriers there's got to be something more suitable out there?

 

[Graeme Burt farrier]

I just wish someone in the last so many hundred years would of come up with a shoe that isn't made of metal, works as well as metal, isn't glue on, expensive and isn't a boot.

Come on you farriers there's got to be something more suitable out there?

I doubt there will ever be this.
The problem is that the material that the horse produces - horn - is naturally destructible, designed to be so, is necessarily flexible, expands, grows, twists, buckles, bends and and is porous too. Taken with that, the environments, pressures and stresses that are placed on it are extreme. There are multiple methods of attachment, we have glues that have stress capabilities of hundreds of tons, but attach then to horn and the horn itself will bio-degrade so that the layer the glue is attached to simply comes away and whatever protection, no matter what it is made of, along with it. Nails, screws. rivets, staples, glue inserts, straps, every method of attachment has its drawback and is fallible. Even the horn itself can be undermined, softened and abraded. Boots and wraps are penetrable by destructive mud causing damage to underlying structures and uneven pressures.

The best approach is to treat every animal as an individual, taking into account the structure of the feet, the work it is doing, the environment it is living in, and the time of year, and adjust your protective measures (shoes and boots are various types of protection) to suit.

 

[millmo]

We swapped farrier recently and I felt guilty because we had used him for a number of years, but he wasn't the best person for one of my lot. It is hard but you have to do what's right for your pony and if your farrier doesn't like it tough you pay his wages so its your choice.

 

[shannonandtay]

We swapped farrier recently and I felt guilty because we had used him for a number of years, but he wasn't the best person for one of my lot. It is hard but you have to do what's right for your pony and if your farrier doesn't like it tough you pay his wages so its your choice.

He has always been good with him but for some reason he got a bee in his bonnet about the treats and turned the shoeing into a bit of a fight so it's time to move on. For some strange reason it feels like a break up lol but it has to be done. Now I'm panicking in case the new farrier isn't very good!! I just can't stop making it into a big deal. Graeme Burt farrier I don't suppose you are in the east London/ Essex area lol.

 

[meesha]

My farrier hangs a horse lick from tie up ring for difficult horses o distract them, she says it works well. Barefoot if horse can cope is obviously better but this is worth a try if you need to shoe.

 

[Heelfirst]

Also a farrier:
Boots
Dump farrier
Feed mag.

 

[shannonandtay]

Thank u Meesha thats a good idea.

Heel first - I do fed magnesium and have done for the last three years. Farrier is definitely dumped and I need to be brave about the boots if I need to use them