Farrier kicked my horse! Rant!

[milesjess]

I'm sorry but I'd be pee'd off! He is a professional and whether he is 'just doing his job' doesn't justify kicking a customers horse IMO. When did kicking a horse or hitting it with a rasp become acceptable if they are moving or not lifting a leg quick enough?
I'd expect a farrier to give him a sharp nudge or similar but not a kick! So I think your right to be annoyed. Im not saying I don't hit my horse, because I do when he needs it but if he had been hit with a rasp or kicked I'd expect him to be behaving in such a way that it was justified.
I agree that a small majority of farriers simply lose patience and react! Easily done when they are stressed and have a busy schedule.

I wonder if the OP's horse ended up lame or injured, would people view the farriers actions differently...

 

[Troylimbo1]

i think its very hard to find farrier who wont ever give your horse a good kick/wallop with a rasp.

Our 1st farrier once smacked our (pregnant) mare round the stomach with the rasp becuase she moved a bit and wouldnt stand perfectly still. we were not happy! new farrier whacked my 2yo round the front of his shoulders with the rasp quite hard because he didnt move back immediately after he asked him (poor youngster is very well behaved and was just snoozing) then after he was asking how old he was, he thought it was an old pony not a youngster and said he felt bad for hitting him!!....im not sure why an older pony deserves a smack for being sleepy but there we go.... Neither of these horses were being that naughty or dangerous in the slightest, i think farriers cram so much work into their day that they are often tired and stressed and do take it out on the horses, sometimes when its deserved but often not.

i would not, however, tolerate kicking a horses leg as that could cause very serious injury!

I have had two farriers myself (including working with a very stubborn horse) and we have many more come to the yard and I have never seen a farrier conduct himself in an inappropriate manner.
If this is your experience then I am truly shocked

 

[PeterNatt]

A farrier can not afford to be seriously injured by a horse as it could put him/her permanently out of action. There are a number of irresponsible horse owners that do not warn the farrier that their horses have a problem i.e. may kick them or expect farriers to deal with what could be considered a dangerous horse without giving them prior warning. This is completely unfair to the farrier.

We all can have bad days but where a farrier demonstrates consistent bad behaviour then their profesionalism will be in doubt.

Farriers as professional people have a code of conduct that they are obliged to comply with. If you are unsatisfied with the manner in which your farrier carries out his profession then you can make a formal complaint about your farriers behaviour to the Farriers Registration Council who have a disciplinary committeee which will formally investigate any complaints. A proven serious complaint could result in a farrier having their name permanently removed from the register.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Well he clearly didn't drop kick it in the coronet band did he? If you ask me he probably toed it - that's hugely unlikely to cause injury or lameness - have you not seen the way horses play outside on their own - their pain threshold is far far above ours.

Do some work yourself to get the horse up to scratch to be shod. That way at least you know your horses bad manners aren't adding to the situation.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Horses should behave for the farrier, vet, saddler and dentist full stop! - however some owners make their horses worse when they are about. I certainly do not condone anyone bullying or beating up a horse - but if my horse should be mis behaving then the people I trust to be working on them are more than welcome to correct them - never had to be done so far as they just do what they are told.

Now another point we all miss about miss behaving horses and stress is this:-
The farrier is hammering nails in to your very precious horses foot - if your obnoxious 500kg horse decides just at the crutial moment to rear, pratt about etc and that nail gets hammered into the wrong place...... or the farrier gets caught or he takes too much hoof off with the blade - we would all be baying for his blood now wouldnt we? but who is to blame?

It is our duty to have a well mannered horse to be shod - now my little lad has obviously had a bad experiance in the past... he physically shakes in fear of the farrier - we try to have him shod at the quietest time of day on the yard, let him feel like he has an escape route if needed - he is in sight of his best mate and I am their to hold him, cuddle him and make a fuss of him - but that does not mean he is allowed to mess about. The farrier is good with him, firm but good and life is improving for the horse and the farrier.

 

[AndySpooner]

If the farrier is not happy with the horse's behaviour, he should stop the proceedure and tell the owner to sort it out. It's not up to them to start kicking and hitting other folks horses.

I'd find a new farrier.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Yeah and if the owner is incapable of controlling their horse then I'd refuse to shoe for them!

 

[riding_high]

many years ago we had a farrier that belted a nervous horse, we not long had it after it had been beaten by it's previous owner and so it was just starting to relax in the environment. it was the first time the farrier had met it and we explained the situation to him, he had been our farrier for a few years (for a large number of horses).

the horse was a bit nervous of him but tried her best to please, she shuffled after picking one foot up so he growled at her, this made her scared so he belted her. he then couldn't understand why she was 'playing up' and not letting him get close to her again, so he threw his hammer and rasp at her. he was frog marched off the property and he lost a lot of business.
word got around and shortly after he quit his job, ok he was also an old boy.

we then found a lovely farrier who we kept for 18yrs before he retired. he would put the horses straight but if they were nervous/wary he would talk calmly to them, also because he had so many to do for us he would let the horse rest while he did another horse before going back to do some more with the nervous horse.

 

[riding_high]

also it's just reminded me of a time that my farrier had to smack at my big lad, he was just putting a shoe on him when he started to fidget, in a big way (tried to walk off) so my farrier had to smack him to get him to listen again. it was a couple of years ago and there was snow on the ground, ice everywhere, and nails being put in so it was needed.

my farrier apologised afterwards and said he wished he didn't have to do that but it was too dangerous not to have done it. i told him i understood and it was fine. i still use the same farrier now.

 

[reindeerlover]

My OH is a farrier and he often comes home with kicks, cuts etc where a horse has pulled back as he was nailing on, cow kicked or just been plain rude. He will never kick them or hit them with tools. I tell him that that is stupid and most owners will expect the horse to get a slap if they kick or are generally obnoxious.

This proves him correct though- if he did ever discipline the horse there would be a thread on here about it . I agree that owners should train their horses, however, if your horse is misbehaving while being shod then I think the farrier is best placed to discipline, he can do it immediately and the horse knows what it is for. The owner cannot slap the horse/pull the headcollar/ whatever they do while the farrier is underneath the horse, that will end up with the horse pulling away or jumping on him! Also, how will you know if your horse is snatching its leg away if your only view is your farriers lovely arse?

He came home the other day after trimming a 2yo draught horse who had just kicked him in the side of the face! I told him that if he didn't want to discipline horses like that and the owner didn't want to train them then he should refuse to do them. He asked me who else was going to do it then? He doesn't want the horses to suffer, he doesn't want them left for 6 months while a new farrier is found and then they get worse.

It's a hard job and I wish there were answers but I have to say- whacking a horse with a rasp if it doesn't immediately move over (within a few seconds) is rather OTT I think....

 

[spotty_pony]

Same thing happened to my poor boy many years ago. Although, I couldn't just stand there and watch something like that happen - I had a go at the Farrier and then never had him back again, I changed to a more considerate Farrier.

 

[MrsHutt]

I think it's one of those things where 'it depends'.

I was watching our lovely farrier do Hugo for the second time and it seemed to me that he had pretty quickly got the measure of him! He said he was a bit lazy and leaned on him and was fooling about a bit, but basically a good boy. Farrier was very firm with H, just a little smack with his hand, and got the job done with no disasters. I think it made H respect him and understand how he was to stand. I think I might have baulked if he had whacked him with a tool, though!!

Farrier wasn't nasty in any way, just firm. I thought he was excellent! As farrier usually visits when I'm not around, it made me (even more) happy about how he is with them.

 

[AndySpooner]

I agree that shoeing can be dangerous for the farrier and it is the owners responsibility to present a well mannered horse, if its not he should refuse to shoe it.

There will always be the odd exception to the rule but generally I wouldn't find it acceptable for farrier to be kicking or hitting a horse with tools. This is after all a training issue a.and kicking or hitting with rasps is not a way to train.

 

[Fairynuff]

Sorry - don't see what the problem is?

You've said your horse was 'peeved' with the farrier and that he can be a pain in the arse. And that he's temperamental. And not to get 'the wrong side of him'?

Sounds to me like Gypsy thinks he's the boss! Not safe when he weighs half a ton and has a brain the size of a clenched fist.

Now, what Achinghips encountered was out of order, but a swift, sharp reminder from your farrier when your horse weighs half a ton and your farrier about 12 stone? Have you SEEN how horses remind each other of their manners?!

If mine had needed such a reminder, I'd have been apologising to the farrier as it would have meant I hadn't taught my horse polite behaviour.

as above.^^^^^^^

 

[sam4321]

I have had two farriers myself (including working with a very stubborn horse) and we have many more come to the yard and I have never seen a farrier conduct himself in an inappropriate manner.
If this is your experience then I am truly shocked

Ive had 4 farriers over the years (3 have hit my horses unnecessarily), and the 4th was a nice man and very good with them, but left their toes far too long.

I was getting a bit fed up in the end really as i quite liked our new farrier (until then) and the horses liked him too and were always well behaved. I even considered learning to trim them myself, but i would really rather they were done by a farrier.

 

[babymare]

mmmmmmmm whilst i understand farriers have a back breaking job with some rude( not meaning yours OP ) horses
with some of thier most delicate bodily parts very vunerable I also feel they also need to lead by good practice and kicking a horse any where any time
is not a good practice - Im so lucky as my farrier is so quiet and sweet to little mare but he as given a slap of back hand to big lad when he as been a silly bugger as big lad should know better - personally i wuld look for another farrier as kicking a horse in any circumstane is a def no no - would he like horse to kick him ?

 

[SpottyTB]

I had a farrier a few years ago that was army trained, he came out to do my 4 year old nervous pony, Domino hopped back once, and he hit him over the head with the rasp, i wouldn't have minded him giving him a slap on the chest/tummy or even the neck but to hit him with a rasp and especially over the head - i promptly asked him to get the hell of my yard, after that Domino was very head shy, and i believe he still is a bit now (4 years on!)

My OH is an apprentice farrier and he does say how annoying it is when they get horse who mis behaves constantly or is just awkward but i dont think he'd ever give a horse anything more then a light slap and a "remember your manners 'oss".

Saying that though, i can sort of understand why a farrier will give the horse a good slap when its putting its weight on them or being awkward, but thats because i can see the pain my OH has in his back because of horses like this - costs him £20 a week to get chiropractic treatment (but never does he complain)

Perhaps you could get lots of people to pick your horses feet up? and just keep practicing, i no my OH and his boss would certainly appreciate the effort so i would think your farrier would too!!

p.s you said your horse is one not to be messed with?
Perhaps your farrier understand this and no's he wont scare/make your horse nervous if he's very firm with him?

Not sure how hard your farrier kicked your horse but generally i wouldn't agree with such behavior, there's a big difference between a slap and a kick.

 

[Amaranta]

Maybe you should teach Gyp to be mannerly and pick his feet up when required?

Just a thought?

Completely agree! It is NOT your farriers job to teach your horse some manners - it's yours!

 

[eggs]

You say you are trying to teach Gypsy to be behave with other people (your dad) which is good.

However I really can't see any reason why a horse shouldn't pick its feet up for anyone and not just the owner.

There is a world of difference between a kick and a nudge. I didn't see what happened but judging by your post, the fact that your farrier got the right reaction from Gypsy would suggest that what he did was not excessive and has hopefully taught Gypsy a good lesson.

 

[Changes]

Maybe you should teach Gyp to be mannerly and pick his feet up when required?

Just a thought?

Quite.

 

[stroppy]

Oh well never mind, horses should have manners full stop.

 

[SuperCoblet]

I think were getting a mountain out of a mole hill here.
Lets just clean this up a bit as some people are making out gypsy is this rude and bolshy horse who needs a good kick up the arse. He was being really good for the farrier up until he dozed off for a couple of minutes while the farrier was prepping the shoe. He went over to him, asked him to pick his foot up and gypsy did nothing wrong other than not pick his foot up within 5 seconds of being asked so he got a damn good kick just above his hoof with steel toe caps on too! I understand that farriers have a hard job but surely that wasn't deserved.
Took gypsy for a hack thisafternoon and yes, he was actually slightly tender in that leg but he did loosen up after we got going. He is no way dangerous for the farrier, he was sleepy and dozed off for a bit!

ETS: forgot to mention, like other posters on here, gypsy can also be a nervy horse as he has been beaten in the past and it has taken us 2 years for him to trust us and he was especially nervy of men and the farrier knew this as soon as he first shod him that 2 years ago. And this showed when he got smacked untie ribs with the rasp as he shied straight away from him.

 

[Foxhunter49]

If you trained your horse and insisted on god manners at all times, the farrier wouldn't have to put manners on him.

I have an excellent farrier who is very good with the young horses but if an older one tries anything on and he gives it a thump my attitude is usually 'Was that hard enough?'

I cannot imagine a worse job than that of a farrier having to deal with ill mannered horses day after day.