Farrier tantrum, opinions please

[Blurr]

I would not expect my farrier to shoe without an enclosed area and the horse being clean and mud free .

Me neither.

 

[Goldenstar]

Respect? Are you sure that's what you mean? I respect my farrier. Unfortunately, no amount of respecting him will conjure up stables.

Given that there is no possibility of installing a shelter my only option would be to not use the services of a farrier. I'm not saying that would not work because I did have one horse who could not be trimmed for 6 years, but his feet did look a mess and I do think it's good to have a professional look after your horse's feet.

Usually, only one visit a year is marred by bad weather, we do tend to fall lucky.

I don't think tbh you need a shelter but you need an area where the horse is separated from any other horses in the field , it's just not safe otherwise .
Farriers really need to see a horse standing on a level surface to see how it's standing to do the best job.
I don't have a covered shoeing area on my yard I wish I did .

 

[diamonddogs]

I think you need to talk about it before the next visit. If the discussion makes you feel comfortable about him coming back again, fine, if not it's time to part company. Don't leave it until the next visit though, by then you'll be so apprehensive your horse will be sensing it and will be even worse to handle for him.

OP, do you LIKE this farrier? Are you usually happy with his work? If so, I'd have a chat with him before the next visit, as Andalucian says. I'm wondering if it's wise to shoe this horse while she's still in rehab. Personally I'd keep her barefoot, and sedate if necessary while she's building her confidence. The important thing now is to show her that having your nails done isn't going to be a bad experience, so it's up to you to ensure that anybody working round her legs and feet makes it as pleasant an experience as possible. Shoes can come later.

I also have a mare with a history, and she can be challenging occasionally, but I constantly work with her on the ground, just to keep her up to date with what's expected of her, and so I don't get complacent. I'm always slightly wary when she has a visit from the professionals, because although she's pretty much OK these days, I'd never forgive myself if my horse damaged a professional going about their work. That said, I do expect them to work with me to keep everyone safe.

She also has a problem with recurrent abscesses in her near fore. I'm very lucky because I have one of the best farriers in the area (in my opinion!) and even though she knows that from time to time he will hurt her, she's very good. Except for the one time she must have been in absolute agony and just wouldn't stand still - she was hopping round the yard, almost backed into the tack room, scared herself and went up, missing both of us by inches, and he did hit her, just once, on the flank. Obviously I wasn't happy about it, but she could have killed us both and on that day being nice just wasn't cutting it, and it worked. He finished the job, drained the abscess, gave her lots of fuss, and apologised for hitting her. He also texted me later to apologise again, and rang next day to see how she was.

He's on the yard a lot, and always makes a point of saying hello to "his" horses (as does the EDT), so perhaps if anyone else has the same farrier as you, you could use his next visit to mend some fences, both with you and your mare.

 

[Shantara]

Sorry you had trouble with a farrier! Thankfully I never have. One got quite frustrated with Ned and did elbow him in the ribs, but to be fair, Ned had lashed out! He would have got the same treatment from me!

When I kept Ned at the field (literally a field, no water supply or stables or anything!), I decided to take Ned's shoes off, mainly because I wasn't doing as much work with him and to help the farrier. I always tied Cookie to the gate to keep him out of the way, but that farrier was fabulous and really didn't mind - or at least that's what he told me!!

 

[rara007]

I always expect professional behaviour around the horses, no excuses. Anyone who shouted at me I wouldn't be paying to come again, it's just not on. If the farrier was concerned or unhappy about the working conditions this should have been brought up before he agreed to shoe the horse, especially as he knew the horse and the set-up.

 

[windand rain]

My farrier is wonderful and I dread the day when he no longer is able to come He is permanently cheerful, Happy to do the ponies and works on a flat area near the gate outside the field on the roadside where we normally park the car We have no stables no shelter apart from hedges and he never ever complains the ponies are usually well behaved although the young one is sometimes a bit pushy and again it doesn't bother him he just gets on with the job. To be honest although it would be nice to present them with clean dry dirt free legs and feet he would rather do them where he feels safe where the ground is good and the horses are comfortable. He always make sure they are happy but is no pushover. He is the only to have ever trimmed the youngster and he know she can either be really good or a monkey but he takes it in his stride.
Farriers are either great or awful I have had a few that would simply never appear, were rough and aggressive, and that made sometimes unreasonable demands trouble is round here the best are full and not taking on clients and the others are not full because they are either no good or unreliable. In you position OP I would do a lot of work with sorting the horse out and if he is a good farrier it will show in the next round of shoeing that you have worked on her and he will appreciate it or he will have no compunction about saying he no longer works for you after all just as you can sack him he can sack you.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I'm on top of a windy hill with no natural shelter and you think I should use an umbrella or erect a gazebo. How would adding flying objects into the mix help?

that's noone's problem but yours tbh. My ponies live out but I've always made sure they were clean and nearly always dry before a visit-even if it means taking them somewhere else.

When I was freelancing, a new client paid me to be there for the farrier. I couldn't believe that I or he, was actually expected to stand in 9 inches of boggy clay, in January, and try and get a horse shod. There was no running water, the appointment was for 3pm and there was no electricity, no cover, no hard standing just a grassy, boggy track for cars. He didn't turn up and I don't blame him-my hourly rate was not worth 90 mins of my time that day.

 

[RunToEarth]

Respect? Are you sure that's what you mean?

Yes, I do. I would not expect my farrier to shoe my horses outside in wind/rain/snow/burning sun, because I wouldn't want to do that.

 

[Maesfen]

I'm on top of a windy hill with no natural shelter and you think I should use an umbrella or erect a gazebo. How would adding flying objects into the mix help?

Just normal Handy Pony conditions! Seriously, you could make a shelter out of just two panels at right angles to give some shelter from the wind; those with some stout posts to fix them to wouldn't cost you a set of shoes but it would make life a hell of a lot easier for anyone attending your horses.

I think it falls down to how much you respect your farrier tbh- I wouldn't expect mind to shoe horses outside on a windy hill.

Me neither , I would not expect my farrier to shoe without an enclosed area and the horse being clean and mud free .

Absolutely agree with both of you although I admit not everyone has a windy hill to contend with. It's interesting that who I would term 'professionals' are in agreement, perhaps it's because we appreciate what they have to do day in day out more than the one or two horse person who just sees them as a tradesman that it doesn't matter if they upset them or they can change at will, I don't know.

Respect? Are you sure that's what you mean? I respect my farrier. Unfortunately, no amount of respecting him will conjure up stables.

Given that there is no possibility of installing a shelter my only option would be to not use the services of a farrier. I'm not saying that would not work because I did have one horse who could not be trimmed for 6 years, but his feet did look a mess and I do think it's good to have a professional look after your horse's feet.

Usually, only one visit a year is marred by bad weather, we do tend to fall lucky.

In that case why don't you take the horse to the bottom of the hill or behind a fence on days like that and hold him there? Simple answer to a simple problem.

Yes, I do. I would not expect my farrier to shoe my horses outside in wind/rain/snow/burning sun, because I wouldn't want to do that.

And that was the point I was trying to make; you shouldn't be asking someone to do something you wouldn't want to do in the first place; put yourself in their shoes and see how that makes you feel - and don't be cheesy and say you'd do anything for your horses as they're not the farrier's so why should he put up with bad working conditions because you can't be bothered to find a way around them to make life easier for him, your horse and yourself.

MofC:, that's appalling, I hope he made them pay top whack for treatment like that!

I apologize for getting hot under the collar about this but it's all about fairness and respect to someone that is doing a job for you that you can't do yourself; you give them the best chance to do the job well in conditions you'd be happy to work in too, it's nothing more than that.

 

[WelshD]

Even if working outside in all weathers is someone's job its always nice to help where you can, a separate area, even a single non slip rubber mat and some windbreak material along a couple of metres of fencing could make a difference

Its part of my job to put sacks of feed in customer's cars but its always nice when they park that little bit closer to the store area, have their boots open and relatively clear etc, it does make a difference.

 

[beth21]

I always expect professional behaviour around the horses, no excuses. Anyone who shouted at me I wouldn't be paying to come again, it's just not on. If the farrier was concerned or unhappy about the working conditions this should have been brought up before he agreed to shoe the horse, especially as he knew the horse and the set-up.

This.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about the conditions that you would expect your farrier to shoe in and what you consider respectful/disrespectful but that's not really the point here. The farriers behavior and lack of professionalism is the point. It is irrelevant whether or not she should have had the horse better prepared. IMO some people have been a bit harsh to the OP in this thread, you should all know very well that horses are not machines. You can mess around with your horses feet until the cows come in, but if they're simply scared of the farrier or the process of trimming/shoeing for some reason (often previous bad experiences), how will they ever get over it without positive experiences with said farrier, time and patience?

If a horse had been violently abused by say a man and was then petrified of men, how would you ever expect to get them over this without exposing them to men in a positive manner? You can't fix certain problems without exposing your horse to the issue and doing your best to keep them as calm as possible.

The farrier in question knows the horse and the set-up so in my eyes, he has NO excuse to have acted that way. With that said, regardless of that he had no excuse. He has a voice (which he clearly has no qualms about using) so it is his responsibility to use it in a calm and responsible manner and state that he feels uncomfortable in the situation. I would not expect someone to do anything they didn't feel safe doing, but they have all the power in the world to stand up and walk away calmly if necessary. I cannot and will not condone someone treating a horse nor the owner that way regardless of the situation.

 

[AandK]

This.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about the conditions that you would expect your farrier to shoe in and what you consider respectful/disrespectful but that's not really the point here. The farriers behavior and lack of professionalism is the point. It is irrelevant whether or not she should have had the horse better prepared. IMO some people have been a bit harsh to the OP in this thread, you should all know very well that horses are not machines. You can mess around with your horses feet until the cows come in, but if they're simply scared of the farrier or the process of trimming/shoeing for some reason (often previous bad experiences), how will they ever get over it without positive experiences with said farrier, time and patience?

If a horse had been violently abused by say a man and was then petrified of men, how would you ever expect to get them over this without exposing them to men in a positive manner? You can't fix certain problems without exposing your horse to the issue and doing your best to keep them as calm as possible.

The farrier in question knows the horse and the set-up so in my eyes, he has NO excuse to have acted that way. With that said, regardless of that he had no excuse. He has a voice (which he clearly has no qualms about using) so it is his responsibility to use it in a calm and responsible manner and state that he feels uncomfortable in the situation. I would not expect someone to do anything they didn't feel safe doing, but they have all the power in the world to stand up and walk away calmly if necessary. I cannot and will not condone someone treating a horse nor the owner that way regardless of the situation.

Best reply on this thread!