JenJ
Well-Known Member
Not really - the OP was asking if she should move to a more honest and helpful farrier, she wasn't asking for legalities on rasping shod feet, especially as the horse in question is not shod...
Farrier told me it is illegal for me to trim/rasp my own horse
- Thread starter Anna2015
- Start date
Not really - the OP was asking if she should move to a more honest and helpful farrier, she wasn't asking for legalities on rasping shod feet, especially as the horse in question is not shod...
sav123
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately there are owners out there with this level of overconfidence and I have seen a few very unhappy horses with shocking feet as a consequence. One of those owners was actually training to be a trimmer!
These days I think there is a bit of a grey area regarding trimming a hoof which will then be accepting a hoof boot, as to whether the Act applies to just shoes, or to any sort of hoofwear, as in the wording it is not limited to just nailing on.
From MotherOfChickens' post above:
Farriery is defined within the Act as "any work in connection with the preparation or treatment of the foot of a horse for the immediate reception of a shoe thereon, the fitting by nailing or OTHERWISE of a shoe to the foot or the finishing off of such work to the foot".
I have also seen people rasping hoof boots to adjust the breakover. What happens if any further adjustments then need to be made? Does the owner have to buy a new set of boots? (This isn't meant to be a snipey question - I'm genuinely interested in the answer!)
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I'd love to know how anyone could rasp a shod foot and "cause damage".
Here is one of my ruined self trimming feet, care to comment further? She hasn't been touched by anyone except me (rarely) in 18 months. Covers 70-100kms a week, sound, rock crunching and competing.
Lovely lovely foot
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Two people taught me to trim , one was a BF trimmer the other was my farrier.
Trimming the unshod horse is not rocket science in a healthy horse.
Trimming the unshod horse is not rocket science in a healthy horse.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Well, technically, somebody needs to tell the horse that it should not have that height of hoof wall at the toe, and the toe should roll straight from sole callous into the hoof wall without an edge.
However, like many horses that horse is rock crunching sound and does not appear to have read the book
The horse is always the best judge!
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
Well, technically, somebody needs to tell the horse that it should not have that height of hoof wall at the toe, and the toe should roll straight from sole callous into the hoof wall without an edge.
However, like many horses that horse is rock crunching sound and does not appear to have read the book
The horse is always the best judge!
Tis a lovely looking foot though.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
It's beautifully round and lovely looking. And that particular horse is rock crunching sound, self trimming, and that foot is right for that horse.
BUT , and it's a big but, most barefoot horses should not have any height of hoof wall at the toe, and growing a 'shoe' of horn is often a sign of a weak foot. Though many farriers and vets will praise it. (They're wrong
)I must stress that this individual horse knows what she needs, but novices please don't think that all horses should have that ring of horn right around the toe. Most hard working barefoot feet are shorter at the toe than that with a more pronounced toe callous. I have one of each
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
yes, untrustworthy or ignorant, unlikely to be a good farrier.
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Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
My owner used to make his own shoes and shod both his flappers [ racehorses], yes it was illegal, but he had learned it as a young man, and he was brilliant, I have seen some farriers who have no idea how to balance, yet they have a qualification.
rachk89
Well-Known Member
I think pretty much kylara was trying to make sure that not everybody thinks "Yay I can save money and trim my horses hooves myself" when quite frankly a lot of people who own horses should own nothing more than a rock not an animal. Would you really suggest that it's fine for one of the idiots on Facebook who asks for a free horse to trim their horses hooves? What may not be rocket science to you is brain surgery to them and they will mess it up and in turn ruin the horse. Saying it's dead easy and anyone can learn is not a great attitude to me it allows the less educated to think they can do it too.
On the actual topic of the OP I would find a new farrier. I don't appreciate being lied to about anything and it would make me question his judgement. I don't trust people like that with my horse.
On the actual topic of the OP I would find a new farrier. I don't appreciate being lied to about anything and it would make me question his judgement. I don't trust people like that with my horse.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
You know as I get older I am less and less interested in idiots .
My farrier and my BF trimmer taught me to trim because it's healthier for my horses to have small adjustments weekly or fortnightly .
My Saddler taught me to shim saddles .
And my vet taught me to flex a horse to look at it's soundness .
I am perfectly able to learn how to do these things well because I have a brain and naturally enquiring mind .
Just because others have not is not reason to stop me caring for my own horses feet in their shoeing breaks .
Rasping the foot of a unshod horse is not diffcult and there's no reason why everybody canot learn if they choose .
Untold damage is being done to horses because of them being left to long between shoeings and because horses are shod all year round.
Why is the hypothetical fact an owner could do harm trimming any different to the many many things dim horse owners are doing to horses daily ?
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
^^^ This. Jay Man just had 18 months barefoot, and my farrier taught me to maintain, and even gave me the rasp! He kept an eye on him, and was more than happy with how they were done, even showing the apprentices how I had shaped them (as a good example, not a disaster!), as it is different to how they would shape a hoof for a shoe.
TBH, I despair of the people on Facebook, who probably think 12 weeks is a good shoeing schedule. Don't get me started on tack fit, feeding, worming and general horse care and riding. I don't think you can legislate for the truly ignorant.
Many people thought I was doing wrong by trimming myself, through the spread of mis-information, people thought I was doing something wrong. By trimming myself. Jay usually had a rasp round his feet once or twice a week, and the feet looked lovely. With road riding as well they rarely needed more than a buff up
For OP, if I were otherwise happy with the farrier I may keep him, unless I wanted to do some trimming myself, in which case I would find a more supportive farrier.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
How do you think they are going to ruin the horse? Feet grow. And if you take off a bit they want in a bid to make the foot look pretty, it grows back. Anything that bleeds is almost impossible to rasp down to.
Unless the horse has a serious movement or conformation defect, it really is simple. Fear is all that holds back most people.
Yes of course you'll get numpties who say 'oh he's always footie for a few days after a trim'. How often do we read the same about horses shod or trimmed by qualified farriers after shoeing or trimming?
pansymouse
Well-Known Member
Is it? Mine is barefoot and over 50% of my friend's horse are too but none of use touch their feet except to pick them out.
If I think my mare is getting a bit long I will do a Council trim (trot several miles on the road).
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
Well, technically, somebody needs to tell the horse that it should not have that height of hoof wall at the toe, and the toe should roll straight from sole callous into the hoof wall without an edge.
However, like many horses that horse is rock crunching sound and does not appear to have read the book
The horse is always the best judge!
So essentially not over trimmed or fecked up by me then, which is why I posted it!
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
I was at vet school in the late 1950's (it's OK, your horses are quite safe, they threw me out!) and I'm pretty sure trimming was described as something every owner should be able to do as routine. But things change and it is all £££££s these days so of course some farriers won't want you to do it.
The introduction to the Farriers Act emphasises that it is all about shoeing...
The introduction to the Farriers Act emphasises that it is all about shoeing...
An Act to prevent and avoid suffering by and cruelty to horses arising from the shoeing of horses by unskilled persons; to promote the proper shoeing of horses; to promote the training of farriers and shoeing smiths; to provide for the establishment of a Farriers Registration Council to register persons engaged in farriery and the shoeing of horses; to prohibit the shoeing of horses by unqualified persons; and for purposes connected therewith.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Exactly FW, it's a lovely, lovely foot.
I didn't mean to pee on your party but I've heard a lot of people say their farrier says their horse has great feet when in fact they've grown a replacement 'shoe' and taken the frog off the floor', so I didn't want people to think all feet should look like it and worry if theirs dont. I've got one that does it. I've tried taking it off and he puts it straight back. It's nowhere near as nice a foot as yours though!
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FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
I don't have a farrier. Married one once. Put me right off.
A large part of the problem is people thinking the foot should look like "something". If the horse is sound and happy then that almost certainly how it should look.
If it were prettified up by me or a farrier, perhaps she would still be sound or perhaps she wouldn't but the latter is never correct for any horse. As this horse doesn't graze grass and is on hard surfaces all the time, I suggest that is why she has these feet. My other horse which is kept "normally" has very different feet yet still functioning very well under my dangerous regime of well, not doing much other than exercising her.
Friend has a couple of ponies which have never been shod. They were self trimming nicely. She thought (largely due to peer pressure) she better get the farrier to check them. He trimmed them. They've been sore for over 2 weeks! Now she's putting shoes on.
There are good farriers and bad ones, good owners and bad ones. I feel more and more it is my job to educate myself about all my horses needs because I've been let down by just about every professional going, at some point.
Going back to the OP, if a professional tells me something I know to be completely wrong then I immediately lose faith in them. Her farrier may not have wanted to show her, which is fine, say so! Lying about the reason is not.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Quite, I'm baffled.
I think most people who are even interested in doing their own are very cautious about it in the first place and it isn't about saving money it is about having a horse that does better with little and often that with 6 weekly trims. Also if you do miss and unbalance them a bit they tend to sort it out again pretty quickly (not that I ever think I have).
Any farrier that told me that I couldn't when I am not preparing a hoof for a shoe would be given short shrift and a highlighted version of the law put up next time he was on the yard.
bluedanube
Well-Known Member
Just tell him he's wrong and if he won't show you chose a farrier that will.
sunleychops
Well-Known Member
If he does a good job then leave him be, He could just be wary about losing business to unqualified BF trimmers or the such, Hardly the worst thing a person can do.
For the record I have one shod horse and another barefoot who went barefoot when we turned him away for 8 months and his feet are a million times better, Farrier see's him once every now and again as he doesn't grow a great deal and I'm happy to take care of them myself, I just simply keep the toe in check and tidy up any cracks with my rasp. If there is something i'm unsure about I get the farrier to have a look and leave the hinds to him as they flare out and don't grow very quickly anyway
For the record I have one shod horse and another barefoot who went barefoot when we turned him away for 8 months and his feet are a million times better, Farrier see's him once every now and again as he doesn't grow a great deal and I'm happy to take care of them myself, I just simply keep the toe in check and tidy up any cracks with my rasp. If there is something i'm unsure about I get the farrier to have a look and leave the hinds to him as they flare out and don't grow very quickly anyway
saddlesore
Well-Known Member
Ok then, so normal but maybe not quite as common as I thought! Love the use of 'council trim' 😂
rascal
Well-Known Member
^^^ This. Jay Man just had 18 months barefoot, and my farrier taught me to maintain, and even gave me the rasp! He kept an eye on him, and was more than happy with how they were done, even showing the apprentices how I had shaped them (as a good example, not a disaster!), as it is different to how they would shape a hoof for a shoe.
TBH, I despair of the people on Facebook, who probably think 12 weeks is a good shoeing schedule. Don't get me started on tack fit, feeding, worming and general horse care and riding. I don't think you can legislate for the truly ignorant.
Many people thought I was doing wrong by trimming myself, through the spread of mis-information, people thought I was doing something wrong. By trimming myself. Jay usually had a rasp round his feet once or twice a week, and the feet looked lovely. With road riding as well they rarely needed more than a buff up
For OP, if I were otherwise happy with the farrier I may keep him, unless I wanted to do some trimming myself, in which case I would find a more supportive farrier.
Someone I knew used to have the horse shod every 12 weeks, and made the mistake of complaining to us, about the horses shoes dropping off after about 9 weeks! Needless to say she had a lecture on how often you should shoe a horse. Nice enough woman but not a clue about horses.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
who on earths farrier agreed to 12 weeks, that can't have been fun for him either!
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that it is illegal in the UK to trim feet in preparation for shoes to be put on the foot; therefore, by implication, it is NOT illegal to trim a foot.
But - presuming that the OP is unqualified to trim feet - then why would you want to?
Its a bit like me, being a total mechanical numpty, opening up the car bonnet and tinkering around with the braking system (if I knew where it was!) and then expecting the vehicle to be fit for purpose...........
Let those that are qualified to do the job, get on and do it, IMO.
But - presuming that the OP is unqualified to trim feet - then why would you want to?
Its a bit like me, being a total mechanical numpty, opening up the car bonnet and tinkering around with the braking system (if I knew where it was!) and then expecting the vehicle to be fit for purpose...........
Let those that are qualified to do the job, get on and do it, IMO.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I'm unqualified and yet I have restored to full work three horses that farriers had given up on and helped friends do the same for several more.
Trimming a normal horse is a far sight easier than car maintenance. I leave that to the OH
rachk89
Well-Known Member
And I don't appreciate being called an idiot just because you can't read. Nowhere did I say that no one should trim their horses hooves. I said it's not a great idea to say it's dead easy when there are people who won't be able to learn how to do it properly. Trim your horses hooves i dont care. But whether you want to accept it or not some people just couldn't learn how to do it properly. Didn't say it was different to other stupid things either i actually said when you consider what else people do with horses do you really want to trust them to do their hooves? Your choice but I prefer to not watch horses suffer.
rascal
Well-Known Member
I think she used to go from one farrier to another, but she didn't keep her horse with ours so not sure what went on.
11bluewolf
Well-Known Member
Just interested, Why can you rasp on a horse that isn't going to be shod but can't on one that is going to be shod?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Why would you want to? When you have a horse that is much better with little and often. I too am unqualified and wouldn't be doing any others any time soon but it became apparent that Frank was much better with me trimming every couple of weeks rather than going 6 weeks between trims. For a good while we kept up the 6 weeks appointments but trimmer was doing less and less so
. I know his feet and his mechanics very well so am happy to maintain them myself (the bits he doesn't do himself- which is mainly the 10 -2 area just to keep his toes shorter).Also the speed his grows if I make a slight mess up he can sort it out again pretty rapidly though I can't actually remember that happening.