Farriers inability to follow simple request has set us back months!

wench said:
Maybe your farrier thought it was best to sort out the front feet after you had trimmed them yourself...
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Not his call if he'd been booked specifically to trim the backs. The least he should have done would be to consult the owner before proceeding. And how does that explain the fact that he didn't trim the hooves he was asked to? Also, knowing full well that Op didn't want soles and frogs pared he did it anyway. Does anyone really think that this was all some sort of massive mistake?
When a farrier trimmed my barefoot horse to the point of lameness I rang him up and told him why he wouldn't be back. One day I was hacking over any terrain, after his visit my horse couldn't even walk up the driveway sound. I made the mistake of trusting the farrier and being in the background making him tea, swapping horses from the field etc. !
 
Unless he's been at the horse with an angle grinder, it will have set you back 5 - 14 days at most.

Don't fret :).

We have some of the best farrier training in the world and there are some great farriers out there.

It's unfortunate that you have one you don't feel confident in.

He will have believed that the was doing the right thing for your horse. If horse is now sore - then it was obviously NOT the right thing for your horse :rolleyes:. It may be that you require a different professional :)

PLease, let's not get into an US and THEM farrier bashing thing here.

It's untrue, unhelpful and makes us all look foolish.
 
If I asked my farrier to do a certain thing I would not expect him to do the opposite.

A good farrier would be happy to shoe/trim a horse without the owner there.

I had a problem with a farrier not turning up 2 days before a major event . Fortunately I got the phone number of a forge 15 miles away so I boxed up there and have never had a mobile farrier again .

I am always with mine although I can do some shopping and leve my chap to shoe my horses.

If you are not happy then find another farrier

To other , many people can not be there when their horses are shod, but it does not mean that the farrier can do what he/she wants to do.
 
millitiger said:
He got mixed up, it's hardly crime of the century.

And who is the 'they' who can't keep their knives away and the 'they' that don't understand barefoot- plenty of farriers understand barefoot.

Either you can speak to him and ask him why he trimmed the fronts or you can just assume he did it wilfully?
If you don't trust your farrier, change him but there is no need to discount all farriers in future or to look solely for a trimmer instead imo.
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wench said:
Maybe your farrier thought it was best to sort out the front feet after you had trimmed them yourself...
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Where's the like button ?!

IMHO OP - you should be speaking to your farrier about this rather than ranting about it on here. And tarring all farriers with the same brush isn't on either.

Crunchie
 
wench said:
Maybe your farrier thought it was best to sort out the front feet after you had trimmed them yourself...
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maybe he did but if he's started with a sound horse and ended up with a lame one and did so against the owner's express instructions, then he's not left himself in a defensible position.
 
A trim should never leave a horse lame .
OP I would refuse to pay for it you did not contract him to do it and more importantly never let him near your horse again.
( perhaps ring the WCF and report him they are keen enough act if a non farrier else lames a horse)
A farrier has no right to trim the feet he's not been asked to do ,how dare he.
 
I'm still horrified how casually all the barefoot folk mention doing their own horses feet. The hoof is a complex part and farrier have years of training. I wouldn't dream of setting a broken leg or delivering a baby unless I was stranded in dire straights as I am not trained to do so. Ditto my horse's feet. And calluses can never be good, they're caused by repeated discomfort. I have tried looking into it all and am still horrified by that statement. 'I do them myself'. People seem so proud when after 4 or 5 months lame their horse looks sound. Those i've seen are just equally sore on all 4 so appear level. Maybe op farrier felt it was cruelty he could fix and proceeded to do so.
 
Spotsrock said:
I'm still horrified how casually all the barefoot folk mention doing their own horses feet. The hoof is a complex part and farrier have years of training. I wouldn't dream of setting a broken leg or delivering a baby unless I was stranded in dire straights as I am not trained to do so. Ditto my horse's feet. And calluses can never be good, they're caused by repeated discomfort. I have tried looking into it all and am still horrified by that statement. 'I do them myself'. People seem so proud when after 4 or 5 months lame their horse looks sound. Those i've seen are just equally sore on all 4 so appear level.
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I understand your concern.

Farriers do train for years (4 and 4 months) but the trimming part of that training isn't the bulk of what they study.
http://www.wcf.org.uk/files/WCF Examination Manual.pdf

Often, owner trimmers actually tend to offer a sympathetic trim. It is relatively rare to find an owner trimmer who has made their horse sore comparative to most professionals - you must know them all :D.

Anyone can make a mistake with a horse - even the best hoof care professionals have been in a 'wrong place, wrong time' situation where the horse has been less comfortable after the trim. Owner trimmers tend to fare better as they make tentative changes slowly, whereas a professional doesn't have that luxury.

Of course, I would always encourage people to trim under the supervision of a professional and have the hooves monitored.

A hoof callous is not caused by discomfort. The cells of certain areas of the hoof are created denser than others and as such more resistant to wear (like the skin around our hands and feet). So a callous isn't really a callous - it's an area of denser cells clumped together to provide padding.
My horse's soles have not been trimmed for over 10 years now - they are in no discomfort, I assure you :)

Spotsrock said:
Maybe op farrier felt it was cruelty he could fix and proceeded to do so.
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But he didn't, did he. He was the one to make the horse sore :(.
 
Tinypony said:
You could try Alicia Mitchell or Ashley Harwood. If you Google you will be able to check their accreditation.
Why would a farrier trim the wrong hooves? Seriously, if you can't trust a farrier to know rear from hind then I'd be parting company and telling him why. A lot of people can't be present for their horses to be shod or trimmed and have a YO or similar attending instead. Also, whether or not I was present I wouldn't want to be constantly fighting to persuade someone to do as I ask and not trim sole.
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No joke - I've been to a yard where the farrier trimmed the Wrong Horse.
 
I "trim" my own and have a really good hoofcare professional visiting about every 10 - 12 weeks or so to keep an eye on what I'm doing. One of my horses is "the most interesting case" the trimmer has every seen, so I wouldn't want to fly completely solo.
Speaking for myself, I definitely do a sympathetic trim as Oberon suggests. This is because I am picking my horses' feet up all the time and if they need a bit of a tidy I just get the rasp and do it. So they are getting attention more regularly than they normally would with a farrier or trimmer visiting, and I'm just maintaining the good shape that is already set up. I can honestly say hand on heart that in about 18 months of doing this I've never had one of mine lame after I've "trimmed". In fact, touch wood, they are wonderfully sound on all sorts of surfaces. If I'm out riding and there is a reaction to a big stone or similar it's nothing that a shod horse wouldn't have felt. Gravel, rocky ground... sound as a pound. (Touch wood, touch wood... even now I can hardly believe their rock crunching hooves!). The little fat one gets a tiny bit footy sometimes, but that is certainly when the grass is flushing and she has to be watched.
Trimming our own horses isn't rocket science if we take the trouble to get some training and do the research. Completely different to going out to trim other horses though, that takes study (by a farrier or trimmer I mean). I know what my horses need doing, I wouldn't want to be starting the job from scratch without help.
 
LucyPriory said:
No joke - I've been to a yard where the farrier trimmed the Wrong Horse.
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Well, I hope the farrier went back and trimmed the right one Lucy.
Actually, when I was helping at an RDA yard and quite new, I went out and brought the wrong horse in from the field, tacked it up and took it to the arena for a lesson. It wasn't even the same size as the horse I was supposed to have.
 
Oberon said:
Unless he's been at the horse with an angle grinder, it will have set you back 5 - 14 days at most.

Don't fret :).

QUOTE]

I agree don't fret, what is done is done and the hoof will eventually recover.

But having had to fix a regularly over pared sole (master farrier) I can speak from experience that it can take a lot longer than a couple of weeks.

We compensated in the interim with good boots and pads but it was a long long job. Horse did come rock crunching in the end though.
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Have just asked farrier OH re this. He does not routinely pare soles. Lots of horses on his books are happily "barefoot" including some of our own. So I would be taking this up with your farrier; you really need to discuss this with him and if you are unhappy with his work then you should make him aware of this. It's always better, though not always possible, if the owner is present during the trimming etc.
 
LucyPriory said:
Oberon said:
Unless he's been at the horse with an angle grinder, it will have set you back 5 - 14 days at most.

Don't fret :).
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I agree don't fret, what is done is done and the hoof will eventually recover.

But having had to fix a regularly over pared sole (master farrier) I can speak from experience that it can take a lot longer than a couple of weeks.

We compensated in the interim with good boots and pads but it was a long long job. Horse did come rock crunching in the end though.
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I'm hoping as this was a one off trim on a previously sound horse, the tissue will grow back quickly :o
 
I've never not been present for a farrier. I see it as a 3-way dialogue between the horse, myself and the professional.
Lots of farriers work unsocial hours, perhaps next time you could sort a time when you and whoever you have, would be good for the 3 of you.
I've had a fab farriers who are pretty receptive to teaching owners who show an interest.
Just so its not all gloom and doom with the FRC, the 4th year apprentices my farrier has at the moment are more than happy to just trim working horses and haven't trimmed a frog yet. Lovely job they do too.
 
i would use a farrier over a barefoot trimmer every single day of the week!!!! my farrier is great, shoes very well, trims well and all are sound and happy. he is very happy to keep horses without shoes as nature intended! no special diets or trims required. just balanced feet!
 
My horse is shod in front, but I had to tell the farrier to leave his back feet alone because the time before he came to do him (I was at work, YO was there) I had a sore horse because his sole and frog had been removed!! I have a sounder horse after last time, but he still trimmed the frog. Next time he comes I will be there (having front shoes off for the winter) and he will be instructed to leave sole and frog alone and just make sure walls are level. I am normally there when the farrier comes, and I don't normally have a sore horse, but I don't know what has changed recently to make my farrier take off so much foot :(
 
As others have said not all farriers are the same. I am very happy with mine and he would never make a decision on my behalf without discussing it. I am lucky that he works all hours and so we always are able to be there. He puts fronts on one of mine and the other 4 are all bare. he only trims and tidies them about twice a year unless we have a problem.
I would never continue with someone I didnt trust and have changed to the current one after a dreadfull experience with the last one who ended up making my ancient mare fall over by the angle he had her hoof. I wasnt there that day OH was and he can count himself lucky I wasn,t but we never had him again and were lucky to find our current one.
 
Spotsrock said:
I'm still horrified how casually all the barefoot folk mention doing their own horses feet. The hoof is a complex part and farrier have years of training. I wouldn't dream of setting a broken leg or delivering a baby unless I was stranded in dire straights as I am not trained to do so. Ditto my horse's feet. And calluses can never be good, they're caused by repeated discomfort. I have tried looking into it all and am still horrified by that statement. 'I do them myself'. People seem so proud when after 4 or 5 months lame their horse looks sound. Those i've seen are just equally sore on all 4 so appear level. Maybe op farrier felt it was cruelty he could fix and proceeded to do so.
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He had no right to do so it not his place farriers do not own horses feet their owners do.
There's no harm in owners rasping the stone chips of hooves it's not rocket science.one of the things I did not appreciate about BF horses before I had one is the extent that they self trim their hooves when in work my BF TB is having a trim on Saturday the first he has since March.
It's not a good comparison to compare mending a broken leg with owners tidying up chips on a BF horse.
My horses I can assure you are not lame BF they are working six days a week and although it does take time as an owner to suss it all out i have seen huge benefits for the horses and as for saying that ones you have seen are lame well I could say that about a proportion of shod horses I see.
And OP's horse is now lame as a result of trim she did not ask for shes right to be furious , and a farrier or trimmer who did that would never get back near one of mine.
 
Spring Feather said:
Moot point surely? Don't all of us have to work to pay for our horses :confused: I digress, yes your farrier should have done as you asked but maybe he felt the need to tidy up the front feet at the same time.
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It's not his place to feel the need to do something to someone else's horse he hasnot been asked to do.
 
I'm lucky in the my farrier has been very encouraging of getting my horses out of shoes. But at the same time I've been very vocal in that I don't want a pasture trim that suits horses with a sturdier hoof structure. I have/had thin soled flat footed horses that were in shoes way too long. I had to be specific in needing the back of the foot to strengthen and not chopping off that toe. But he does do my 2yo who seems to get 2 trims a year. She wears her feet correctly all by herself.

I was the biggest negative Nancy concerning barefoot. But the more I kept researching the more I realised this isn't rocket science. Some horses never require a special diet but mine do. I'm also careful on grazing. But I was while shoes were on. My other attempts at bare failed because when the shoes came off they were trimmed into perfect little hooves. The feet on my horses couldn't handle this change. Taking the shoes off carefully myself and letting them be was such a difference.

Farrier's should just try and listen. There are some out there. Mine has been very good. Thankfully as I trust him and not really in the mood for looking for someone new to trust.

Terri
 
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