Farriers

I have to admit I never really gave a lot of thought about farriers, I used a farrier that was recommended when I was first looking for a farrier for my boy who doesn't have the best feet in the world. he shod him for three years of no drama and then I moved yards to cut costs and be nearer home, but it was out of this farrier's area.

I changed to a recommended farrier and didn't think much of it. After four months my horse went very slightly lame, total mystery nerve blocks, xrays only concluded it was in the foot but no obvious reason. Both mysefl and my vet thought he could possibly be shod better, although when I was asking around for another farrier he was the one always recommended! In the end I changed to a farrier recommended by my vet, the lameness progressively got worse and I started to be more convinced it was a shoeing issue.

I felt I had to give the second farrier a fair chance as accepted he couldn't change the foot overnight but after three more shoeings and no improvement in desperation I begged my old farrier to come and look at him as a one off just to see if he thought it was related to the way he was shod, otherwise the horse was off to a hospital for every test under the sun. Within about 2 mins said without doubt his feet were causing the problem, and he explained why I was seeing all the issues I was.

He was so upset at the state of them he came back and shod him for me, he now felt he needed to be shod with bar shoes in front, and sure enough after that shoeing he was much improved and after some intensive physio for the knock on problems he came completely sound within a few weeks.

I promptly gave my notice in and moved back to the old yard so he could continue to shoe him and touching all available wood we haven't looked back.

So I have learnt my lesson, eight months of complete stress, vet bills and upset and pain for my horse due to trusting two reputable farriers and being basically fobbed off by them when I could see the feet weren't right but didn't have the confidence to challenge what was going on.

My farrier is now treated as a god :D But I do find it very scarey that if he moved away or stopped shoeing there is a chance I wouldn't find a farrier that could keep my horse sound!
 
Lol have to laugh, I should have known better to post something like that, just got a call from the yard to say he's lost a shoe. Isn't that just horses for you :rolleyes:
 
Having lost my last horse to navicular at the age of 10 - due to bad shoeing, foot balance etc I now use 'God' as I call him (not to his face) He is the only farrier I know who walks and trots up a horse before he shoes it to check its landing correctly and every time he shoes her he treats her as a 'new customer' and spends time looking from every angle etc etc. The price for this ? £100 for a new set with road pins and stud holes (2 in each shoe) every 5 weeks. Luckily we have refits every other shoeing at £80 !!! It seems expensive written down like that but having gone thru the upset of losing a horse you owned from 6 months old to something totally unavoidable it's worth every penny. Now when I see horses shod by my old farrier I can see the difference and its quite scary.
 
I am another worrier, however I think I have only just begun to question my farrier.

I have used my current farrier for many years and always thought he had done a good job. However, my horse has started to trip in the school recently and it has made me start to think.

The link that Tempi has provided is very good and I am certainly going to have a good look at my horses feet tomorrow!
 
I'm on a big livery yard with 30ish liveries and several farriers who come to the yard.

There is only one horse who I would consider to be well shod.

Most of the others are quite frankly appallingly shod and there are a few inbetween.

The problem is that no-body *thinks* their farrier is awful; as long as the shoes stay on they think he's good!

Farriers get away with murder with uneducated owners, slapping on shoes too short at the heel to minimise the risk of the horse pulling them off, resulting in long toes/unsupported collapsed heels. Even vets are reluctant to tell owners the truth for fear of upsetting the farriers.

My own horses are barefoot; one used to have the flattest enormous dinner plate feet with soft soles, the other had the typical TB flat feet collapsed heels. Both horses now do lots of roadwork, jump and hack on stoney tracks.

When the farrier took the shoes off the TB he said 'this horse won't go a week without shoes', a year on his feet are superb........ no shoes

If only I had a pound for every time someone said 'my horse won't go barefoot because....'

Were they born with shoes on? How did they survive their first three or four years?

Phew! That's better!
 
I'm another who has never been overly concerned about farriers as long as they come recommended from somebody I trust. I've used a few farriers over the years. Both horses are unshod with one always having text book feet and the mare has those awful dinner plate feet with no heels and has been foot sore on everything that isn't paddock or surface :rolleyes:.

The barefoot movement is huge here and I've lost count of the number of lame barefoot horses as "that's part of the healing process." I'm sorry, but a horse being lame for two years is unacceptable, I don't care what your ideal is :mad:. So when my farrier retired and I had to find a new one, you can imagine my dismay when the only farrier I could get to see my horses (out of a shortlist of 16!) was a barefoot trimmer. You'd think having 16 well recommended farriers servicing your area would give you choice, but nooooo…;)

The first trim he made the mare's feet so small, they looked like tea cups. He also said that her feet were so bad that she was unrideable. She was unrideable anyway due to doing the splits in the paddock, but it raised an eyebrow. He then made my gelding so foot sore I could barely get him to the arena. :mad:

At the next trim, I called him up on it and he said that obviously the gelding just had bad feet and would need to wear hoof boots when ridden :confused:. I've never questioned anything as they know more than me, but I let him know what I thought of his trim in no uncertain terms! Since then, the gelding has been back to perfect. The mare's feet are now a great shape although she's still slightly sore when walking on gravel but is stepping out on roads :D. You also can't feel her heartbeat in her legs, which you used to be able to. :eek:

I still have no idea what he did to my gelding that first time, but I understand what he did to the mare and it has certainly worked for her. Watching how the farrier checks the alignment and walks them out and discusses diet and paddock conditions, I'm going to be a lot more careful about farriers in the future. Some certainly do only the minimum required. This farrier also tells me every time that my horses have the best feet he's seen all day, but that's only because I'm his first appointment. Ah, farrier humour. :p

I never thought my mare would have decent feet and it has been a long, hard struggle with trims every 4 weeks religiously but now in the middle of winter, we're in 6 week cycles and her feet still look freshly trimmed. I'm going to have to learn how to touch up their trims in summer to maintain our new found greatness, but I'm definitely embracing as much hoof education as possible. It's worth it!
 
Seahorse said:
I'm lucky that my farrier is very good, he's only a young lad but he really seems to care about horses feet and their soundness issues.
If someone has a lameness problem he quite often goes to the vet off his own back and asks if he can do anything with their feet to help.
He explains everything and will chat for ages about what he's doing.

My horse is on loan now and they are using their own farrier and tbh I'm not sure if he's any good but I'll have a good look at his feet next time I go and see him.
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Who do you use?

My farrier is similar, the first time I saw him I was like Oh. My. God it's some lad fresh out of farriers training this is going to be a disaster! Turns out he's bloody brilliant, puts up with my mares antics and my ponies feet have never looked better! He's also a qualified barefoot trimmer which I prefer as it's a bit different from just a field trim.
 
carefreegirl said:
....He is the only farrier I know who walks and trots up a horse before he shoes it to check its landing correctly and every time he shoes her he treats her as a 'new customer' and spends time looking from every angle etc etc. The price for this ? £100 for a new set with road pins and stud holes (2 in each shoe) every 5 weeks. Luckily we have refits every other shoeing at £80 !!! It seems expensive written down like that but having gone thru the upset of losing a horse you owned from 6 months old to something totally unavoidable it's worth every penny. Now when I see horses shod by my old farrier I can see the difference and its quite scary.
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I am exactly the same as you. I also pay £100 a set, but my horse goes 7 weeks on them which i guess is slightly cheaper in the long run! But my farrier will always walk and trot her up before and after shoeing and spend ages making sure each foot is correct etc.
 
I don't understand why farriers don't watch horses trotted up as a matter of course, surely to do their job right they need to see how the foot lands in motion. My farrier doesn't trot my horse up every time (which does actually concern me), although he will trot up if he has changed anything which I suppose is better than some.

I know that there are lots of super farriers out there, but there does seem to be an awful lot of poor shoeing around. I do think that some farriers lose interest in thinking about what they are doing and shoe to a pattern which might not suit every horse. There are others who are so busy charging a fortune and running a substantial business that they forget to supervise their apprentices who are actually doing the work (badly) of shoeing a horse, for which the farrier is being paid £100+ a set. That makes me extremely cross (thinking about one well known farrier in my area as an example).
 
My farrier is young as well, but he really is good - he covers most of the events here and was the farrier at dublin horse show. He hot shoes as standard :)
This is the hind foot of my horse - please excuse the feet, my horse will need shod in the next week or two, but you can still see the fit.

foot.jpg


Interested in what you think, I have a photo of the front somewhere but foot is awful and very cracked so loathed to put it up :p
 
It's really hard to get a true picture just from a side on photo, be better with one of the bottom of the foot, from behind with foot on the ground and head on from front

However that foot looks well shod to me from that photo.

The only thing I would say is the horse appears to be standing with his hind leg too far under his body but that may well be just the way he is standing, or his conformation and nothing to do with the way he is shod.
 
Can I ask why you say it is well shod? - just curious that is all :)

To me the toe is far too long, the heals are collapsed and the horse is leaning back on its heals which are in turn putting added strain on the legs. The feet are also different shapes and sizes....

Yes but if the conformation is slightly poor then the shoeing can be done to help correct this - that is the whole point of a well shod foot!! With the toes as long as they are, if the horse dose have slightly poor conformation the shoeing is certainly not helping!
 
Tempi it's just my (probably worthless!) opinion but I'll try!

The toes don't look overly long to me but you can't really tell without seeing underneath the foot- the farrier can only trim the foot to the white line. If you follow the angle of the pastern it follows through the foot without breaking. This is a reasonable angle for a hind foot.

Yes his heels are a little low but the farrier has left some shoe to support the foot, as he has out to the side.

Not sure how you know that his feet are different sizes as you can't see the other one!
That said if they are different then that's how they are; it's not a good idea to try to make odd feet a pair if they are genuinely different. I have one foot bigger than the other too!

I agree he is leaning back as I said in my first post, but why that is we just can't tell from one photo.

Gosh I wish I could post some pics from my yard, could be a gallery of badly shod horses!

The owners might be upset though.....!!
 
I too am obsessed by feet! My farrier now is excellent, and is very quick to pick up if there is anything not quite right. He is the only farrier (other than a very expensive farrier in the hereford/wales direction ;) ) I have had who will pull the toes back and shoe with lots of heel support without me asking. He will explain anything I ask of him, and is good with the horses, even when they are messing about!

He is a downright p!ss take though, and is quite often late :p But I don't mind too much as he does always turn up, will call me back if he can't pick up his phone, and does seem to care. I also know that it is always him that will turn up, and not an apprentice which was the reason I left my old farrier!! I will take some pics of madams feet actually as a comparison to when brought her... :D
 
See, i think it is well shod because the angle from fetlock to hoof is good, his toes are left that bit longer as he tends to over-reach when jumping :p

He was standing oddly though, he has good hind confo, just stands oddly in that photo :p

Dont see what you mean by different sizes though - his feet are most definately the same size all round, must just be the angle of the photo :)

But my friend who is training as a farrier thinks that English farriers have them generally much shorter in the toe and less shoe behind the foot (to support) than the irish, guess just different training :)
 
only_me said:
He was standing oddly though, he has good hind confo, just stands oddly in that photo :p

Dont see what you mean by different sizes though - his feet are most definately the same size all round, must just be the angle of the photo)
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Yes that's what I thought, a photo doesn't tell you the whole story. :-)


Tempi are we talking about the same feet? I mean only_me's horse not the photo further back in the thread which I agree are appauling?!
 
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only_me said:
My farrier is young as well, but he really is good - he covers most of the events here and was the farrier at dublin horse show. He hot shoes as standard :)
This is the hind foot of my horse - please excuse the feet, my horse will need shod in the next week or two, but you can still see the fit.

foot.jpg


Interested in what you think, I have a photo of the front somewhere but foot is awful and very cracked so loathed to put it up :p
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This looks a well shod foot to me :) The only thing I don't like is the obvious rasp line above the clenches in his hoof wall ;) :p But thats me being picky ;)
 
the toe is perhaps a touch dumped(in order to make it appear shorter) and the heels are def underrun. but most shod horses heels are far far worse(with a few exceptions) so overall id be happy if my shod horse looked like that.

i will get some pics of the captains bare feet tonight, just in case anyone is nosy/interested.

just for the record-my horses may be barefoot but i absolutely DO NOT buy the *lameness is part of the healing* drivel......my horses have been sound on the arena, yard and smooth tarmac since day one, and had they been sore for any longer than a week, in any way, id have seriously thought baout puting shoes back on, and probably done it.except in severe remedial cases(where the horse was crippled in shoes anyway)i dont believe in the pain=healing=good.nonsense to me!!! oh, and if CS ever feels like he needs either front shoes, or all 4, he will get them straight away, im no evangelist......just needed to get that out in the open in case you thought i was all a mentalist!!!
 
Lol, P_S - I didn't have you down as a barefoot born again so don't worry!! ;)

A note of caution if I may - it's difficult to generalise about feet. I really rate my farrier because the horses stay sound with him but I also like that he's not prescriptive in shortening the toes agressively. For a TB out of racing (as all of mine are), shortening them too fast can make them very lame. My father had a wonderful expression for horses' feet: "Every cripple has his own way of walking". And there are TBs out there with long toes and flat heels that do stay sound - I bought mine from a farrier and he had awful feet but has been the soundest horse I've had to date.

So I'd be wary of trying to make the generalization that all the toes must be short - although I'd agree that long toes on horses that aren't bred with feet like that is a problem. What I'd like to see in a dressage warmblood is different to a TB etc.
 
just for nosyness, here are CS's bare feet.
he was very boxy and heel high when i bought him (shod) and toed out very noticably. heels are a much better height now, although still high, and his left fore has straightened totally, right fore is just a touch behind, but give it 6 months and should be perfect (should add that he does not naturally toe out as much as he was, but his shoes were not straight and his heels were not level, so he was being forced to toe out even more!!!!! we are slowly making adjustments to straighten him up, so as to allow his joints/tendons/muscles time to adapt)
the sole view is a front foot, and you can see the bars need a trim, but he has decent frogs, quite plump and wide, and a decent amount of concavity. small amount of white line seperation but that will tighten up with a trim (he was trimmed 5 weeks ago, touched up 2 weeks ago and is due a touch up tomorrow and a proper trim next week).

hind foot shows slight bullnosing of the toe, which is something he wears himself and is NOT trimmed in. shows he is still a bit weak behind,and its worse on his right hind which is his (now VER rarely)sticky stifle. again heels a touch high and a touch under run, but overall i think a good support base and allowing him to stand *under* himself and spread his weight evenly over all 4 feet.
he is sound to trot up on tarmac, gravel and grit track.

front foot:
Untitled1.jpg


sole view:
Untitled.jpg


hinds:
Untitled2.jpg


sorry they are all of same side, id just washed him off when i remembered to take these, and he didnt have a headcollar on, so each time i had to wait for a pic to save, he ambled off to speak to bruce, so i had to keep retrieving him and parking him back on the concrete to get the next shot!
 
I read this thread last night...and think I may have had a lightbulb moment.!
It kept me awake most of the night to be honest.
I moved my horse to a new yard a year a go. Everyone loves the yard farrier, he is young and good looking and seems very helpful.
However my horse has been and now is 6/10 lame on the fronts.
He has been to Rossdales and they thought his coffin joint may be the problem, so was injected with cortisone. He got lamer from 3/10 to his now 6/10ths,
So now he has been referred to RVC,
They found his navicular was very painful, they did an MRI scan , and there is no damage to anything!!! No wonder the injection to the coffin joint was not helping. So putting it down to bruising.
They have re shod him in wedge heel shoes , temporarily for 3 months, as thats as long as they can allow him to wear them, as it will cause other problems.
But they were a little mystified as his conformation is so good and apparently so are his feet.
But now I have a terrible feeling it was the shoeing...this farrier never gives heel support like my old one did.
But everyone raves about him, so its going to be really awkward to change as he tries to be so helpful.
One lady on the yard uses a different farrier who I think shoes like my old one did (with the heel support) but she says he wont take on anyone ...but maybe I should really try and see if he will help.
What do any of you think?
I have had 3 months of hell.. (and expense) thinking my horse would have to be retired or even put down.
His 15 to 17 and Is everything to me.
 
sound suspiciously foot related to me.....have a word with the alternative farrier, beg,plead and offer a never ending supply of free tea and choccy biccys if needed!

lack of heel support is going to distort the way the foot lands and the weight distribution, so could well be causing the navicular sysmptoms-like you having to walk only on the balls of your feet.

pics of the feet in question would be useful.
 
P_S- Love the pics of your horse's feet, they look incredible, havent seen such good heels for a long time.
Can I ask what method of trimming/theory of trimming you follow and what association your trimmer comes from?

Only ask as I'm definately considering keeping my new 3 year old barefoot, but I'm not sure where to start and what type of trimmer to use ( as there are so many different methods of trimming out there)

I have always been well aware of bad farriers and bad shoeing over the years and have tried my absolute hardest to have the best possible farrier, but their feet still go wrong and the vets still complain that they are all shod wrong- and therefore i've just had my SECOND horse written off because of a problem with the feet and the way it was shod.

Enough's enough for me- something has to change and I would really love to see if I can keep my horses barefoot and event them barefoot.
 
hiya, thank you :)

im doing the Equine Podiatry *thing*!!! which is the KC L a Pierre method of trimming, but my trimmer and i always laugh that we follow the common sense and keep it simple method.eg mine live in at night, are rugged, fed hard feed etc, and she works with me to keep barefoot working for us-IMHO its the least evangelical method. you know how some barefoot people tell you the horse has to live 100% naturally ...ie feral!!! well, they lie!!!!

where abouts are you based? I can find out who she would reccomend in your area.
 
Thank you if you /your trimmer could reccomend someone in my area that would be great- I'm in Hampshire near Southampton.

I have followed with interest the barefoot movement for many years, but was always v. put off by the 'horse must be completly feral' thing' so its great to hear that it can be done with normal stabling/feeding/rugging!!
 
have text her, will let you know what she says, im seeing her next sat in any case, so if i cant get hold of her this week ill def speak to her next sat :)

in every other way mine are kept *normally*, they are clipped, work hard, are rugged, booted, pampered etc. and iv not had to do anything special with regards to living arrangements or the yard.........iv heard of some people who go through the rigmarole of putting down all different gravels, laying a tarmac strip, etc etc in order to * condition the feet*!!!! IMHO only severely compromised feet need that level of work/fannying around, and most horses cope fine if you use your brain eg build up work on gritty/gravelly/stoney surfaces slowly, dont do too much trotting on roads until the feet have hardened up a bit.

the only faffing i do , is that mine get their soles sprayed with a mix of cider vinegar,water and tea tree oil, twice a week, as its a good way of cleaning out the tiny cracks and chips.takes about 10 secs to do four feet.

when the shoes come off, it can be a good idea to do a weekly soak in milton (yes babies bottle stuff) until the old nail holes grow down, as those holes are an ideal place for fungal infections to start, which can then cause white line problems. once the nail holes are grown out, i dont bother with the soaks any more, and none of their feet have dropped off yet!!!

thats really the only faffing i did. i never had to do the boot thing with mine, and as long as you've got either a surface, grass or smooth tarmac, i dont see whay you would have too, for a horse sound in shoes and with no known issues.

hope that gives a bit of an insight, maybe i was lucky but it was a painless transition with all of mine.
 
PS, your horse's feet do look quite amazingly good! :)

I would love to have my horse barefoot (although his feet are not as good as Star's), and he has been in the past. But it is a long walk to his field on some nasty stony and gravely ground, and he struggled. So I put fronts on.
 
bummer! (about the gravel i mean), but best thing to do in the circumstances.....if i ever have to move star anywhere and come up against that, i imagine i will pop shoes back on too.im not knocking people who have time to boot them just to walk to the field and back, but for me-not enough hours in the day to faff with them!

we didnt do it intentionally-but our gravel is the very small round stuff, that you can walk on yourself in bare feet and be fine, so my lot cope ok with that.
 
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