Farriers...

[rcm_73]

Had trouble today..my usual farrier refused to shoe the fronts of my new horse because he fidgeted about quite a bit. I can understand his perspective (safety, injury etc) but I've known farriers to continue shoeing with a horse that reared up. My horse didn't rear or even kick out he just kept trying to 'hop' out of the farriers grip. I'm a bit disappointed as he's been shoeing my other horse for over a year and I just thought he might try a bit harder and have a bit more patience, he clobbered the horse a few times too so now I'm worried it'll be worse next time. What are your views? Anyone had similar experiences?? I'm now without a farrier as if he's not prepared to shoe them both then I think I'll try to find someone else that will...if possible. Can anyone recommend anyone who would cover my area Chester/ N. Wales border?

 

[AmyMay]

Well, to be fair if your new horse hops around on to your farriers foot, head or back - then he's out of work. He has a right to expect a horse to behave reasonably if it's not a youngster. So don't blame him for telling you he won't shoe it any more tbh.

 

[_Jazz_]

Your farrier sounds a right wimp

Is your horse usually OK to do?Any history?
If he clobbered mine for fidgeting I'd clobber him or her.
I had this type of farrier once but my old mare got him back a corker, served him b***** well right too. Only time she ever kicked anyone. Sacked him and got a kind, fair, firm farrier that became a very good friend of ours, i was so sad to say goodbye when we moved abroad BUT so lucky to find another good 'un.
In my experience when a horse tries in on(it sounds like this is what your's did) with ,usually, a new farrier we hold on, hang on and get on with it, calm, confident and quiet.Your horse does not need the stress of an un confident farrier, sack him !!!
Good Luck, Hope all goe's well
x

 

[AmyMay]

Gosh, aren't you the very worst type of horse owner??

And sorry, but I couldn't bite my tongue!

 

[Tia]

Teach the horse some manners and I am sure your farrier will shoe him for you. Doubt many farriers will be bothered either - they have tonnes of clients so these days they can generally pick and choose which horses they will shoe and which ones they won't.

Good luck though - bit of patience and firmness and there shouldn't be any further trouble.

 

[_Jazz_]

Errr, why?

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Errr, why?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well the phrase about the farrier being a wimp for starters. Where in their job description does it say that they have to put up with ill mannered horses?

As was very correctly posted in another post - farriers are professionals who have trained for a long time, and deserve to be treated as such.

Why would you be pleased that your horse had kicked one - I would be absolutely mortified.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be absolutely mortified.

[/ QUOTE ]

So would I! If my horses behaved like that, then I would see it that I was not doing my job properly.

 

[EllieBeast]

Farriers are regularly in a very vulnerable position whilst doing their job. i, personally would be mortified if my horse was badly behaved in a way that put my farrier at risk. They have to be fit to work to earn their wage, and one swift kick from any horse could put him/her out of action for quite some time. i feel that he is well within his rights to refuse to shoe a misbehaving horse.

Sorry - my twopenneth, however i cannot judge the situation in question as i was not there!

 

[frannieuk]

My mare was shod yesterday, and due to circumstances (recent moves, companion horse away, builders using bulldozer, and bonfires in vicinity) she was quite agitated and fidgety. At one point she leaped out of my farriers and my grip and bu99ered off into the field, and I couldn't hold her. I actually said to my farrier that I had no problems if he wanted to call it a day and come back another time as I was absolutely mortified by her behaviour. My farrier is excellent, and didn't blame the horse as she's usually well behaved and stayed to finish the job. However, I would not expect him to do this, as has been pointed out above, if a farrier is injured he can't work. IMO my farrier was perfectly within his rights had he refused to continue and it is a credit to him that he stayed to finish, I wouldn't have had a problem with him had he chosen not to.

 

[dressagespain]

Amy, if the farrier is SUCH a professional, he shouldn't be clobbering the horses in the first place and should act professional and be patient bearing in mind that the horses don't know they have trained for years.

Sorry but I really feel that the farrier shoudl have given the horse a chance bearing in mind he didn't know it.

 

[_Jazz_]

For goodness sake!!!
Firstly, MyMills horse 'hopped' , he did not rear etc, based on that I do not see him as a dangerous horse. Over to you MyMills on that one ! ie Help!!!

AMYMAY(In caps. to make it clear, I'm not shouting so don't bother commenting!)
re:'As was very correctly posted in another post - farriers are professionals who have trained for a long time, and deserve to be treated as such.'


Clobbering a 'hopping' horse is NOT(yes, thats a shout!) professional conduct, try being a vet nurse with a snappy dog and doting owner-how professional would it be to clobber them?! Firm=Yes Hitting out due to frustration =No

AMYMAY,TIA,LIVEWIRE(Not shouting) And anyone else about to leap on the bandwagon
re:'Why would you be pleased that your horse had kicked one - I would be absolutely mortified' and anything else like that...OH FOR GOODNESS SAKE AGAIN !!!

First, my old mare was 30 years old and arthritic hence could not lift her hind legs really high. I'd already requested the farrier showed her respect(I'm the client, I'm paying for this service). I was poo picking and heard him swear so *crept* to nose around the stable, the b****** had her leg up by her belly and she was 'hopping' so he let her foot drop*thud* to floor then jabbed her twice in her tummy with the rasp. I'd seen more than enough, stepped out as he went to her leg again and she kicked him .I said " enough", finish the job while I watch and sacked him. RIGHT, lets get this straight my old mare was 100% with her previous farrier, he had personal problems which is why I ended up with c*** farrier.
I repeat GOOD FOR MY OLD GIRL!!! RIGHT. The original farrier had my 100% girl and a 2 year old Jazz to do. He advised we 'hammer' her feet daily to get her used to it and prepared her by letting her watch old girl being shod, getting used to smells etc.We cold shoed her first, then moved onto hot when really happy. i.e HE WAS A PROFESSIONAL AND THE HORSES HE STARTED REMAINED GOOD TO SHOE, unless a a******* farrier spoils it along the way. We did all that was asked and Jazz is 100%, IS THAT WHY I'M THE WORST KIND OF OWNER AMYMAY!!!(yep, another shout, give me strength to HOLD MY TONGUE!!)
And while on the subject AMYMAY for more clarification on my WORST TYPE OF OWNER TAG:
A/ Whilst in England I kept the same Equine Vet for 10 years, they offered me the position of Student Vet Nurse, I'm sure you know these vacancies are as hard as rocking horse s*** to secure. What must they thought of me ???
B/ Our replacement farrier beacame a very good friend. My horses never kicked him, I wonder why...maybe because he was a true professional. He used to come round for his egg sarnies and tea if he was passing and we enjoyed nights out with his wife and him MMMMMM....OH I'M REALLY THE WORST!!! We had such a laugh and when the banter about him needing NO NAILS!!! come about he would show us his list of 'How to treat your Farrier'!!! Miss him, I do... But our new farrier is lovely, kind, firm, quiet etc so he too gets his tea and biscuits.
Oh, I've been known to *growl* at my horses, out of frustration because I don't quite get the answer but I do not physically punish a horse unless he/she is truely acting dangerously.
I'll try and find the Classical Horse Charter, I do my best to stick by these 'rules'
Anyway, no hard feelings, I hope I've clarified a few points :_)
Caz

 

[rcm_73]

Well the horse is new to me and the yard it's a 6y.o. maybe a bit bolshy atm but I've seen farriers shoe far worse things and tbh he'd finished nailing the first one on and had probably a couple of nails left to do on the second one before he ripped them both off!! (we were only doing fronts) I would of thought that when a farrier chooses to be a farrier he has to expect that there's an element of uncertainty that comes with the job, after all horses aren't robots, they're individuals and each case has to be treated as such and with every good experience leading to a better one next time. There's an element of danger with everything we do around horses and with a lot of jobs other than farriery. I will attempt to desensitize the horse to the hammer over the next few weeks but after being hit about the body with one I could have a difficult job.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I was poo picking and heard him swear so *crept* to nose around the stable

[/ QUOTE ]

What? You don't even bother to hold your horse for the farrier??

Well I was reserved in my previous comments....however I now believe that Amy hit the nail on the head......

 

[dressagespain]

Caz, I completely agree with you and I can't believe the attitude of some others.

YOU are the client and THEY are offering you a service. If they didn't know what horses were like, then they SHOULD NOT have become farriers.

They don't get very far with me if they mess me around.

I had one that FORGOT to put a shoe on a front foot and then accused me of lying to him - there wasn't even any bloomin holes in the hoof so how could I have been lying and the horse pulled it off!

 

[_Jazz_]

Here it is
FROM THE CLASSICAL RIDER CHARTER-from their website
QUOTE

A Charter for the Classical Rider
Remember that the horse is a living member of God's creation; let us respect this fact in all that we do with our horses.


We should understand that discipline is not force; it is something which we all need if we are to live useful, constructive lives. Just as our children thrive through fair, disciplined guidelines, so do horses.


We ourselves need discipline if we are to be able, sensitive riders. This involves discipline of the mind as well as the body. We owe it to our horses to be as balanced, centred and disciplined as possible when we ride.


Abuse to horses is not always intentional; it can happen as a result of uninformed thinking and uninformed riding. We should be prepared to go on learning all our lives, as there is never enough time in anyone's life to learn all there is to know.


We should strive to think positively and look for the best in everything around us. We owe it to our horses to be in a positive frame of mind when we ride. If ever we feel angry, frustrated, pent-up, or even very tired, we would do better to go for a hack, rather than to try to train or school.


Let us never be too proud to say sorry to our horse and to start again. We can all make mistakes; so can he, so can we. Let us also forgive him when he has done wrong. It may well be that he did not understand us.


Punishment should only be administered if a horse actually threatens us in some way. A horse that has reared or bitten should be immediately punished; he should not be punished when he refuses to do something because he is fearful, unfit or simply does not understand.


Remember that the only way we can tell him he has done something correctly is to reward him. Touching the neck, praising in a low, kind voice, means a lot to horses. This can be done several times in a training session and will reap its own reward. It has nothing to do with sentimentality. All the great masters from time immemorial dealt in rewards in order to train better.


The training path of every horse should be done step by step - systematically and logically. We should never have to undo anything we teach our horses. Training slowly in this way builds muscles, mobilises joints and gives the horse time to develop physically and mentally. It also builds trust.


The proof of the classically trained horse is that he will grow more beautiful. The rider too will become centred in every sense of the word. Classical riding is more than an art; it is a philosophy, a way of life.
UNQUOTE

 

[dressagespain]

Tia, You CANNOT be expected to hold the horses for the farrier, they take so long to do it.

I will stand with my youngsters and be around for the others but all the farriers I ahve ahd are happy to just get on with it but I have been lucky enough to have ex Kings Troops ones so they are pro's.

 

[barkinghorse]

My farriers fab!!!
William has Shivers and he's soo good with him, when he tries to run off farrier keeps hold of his leg untill he calms down!! he understands that he is worried about pain and never smacks or shouts.
My old farrier who i had for 10 years made me sedate him but made him worse, so changed to new farrier and have never looked back! AND he does improve with every shoeing
Jo

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you know these vacancies are as hard as rocking horse s*** to secure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not where I lived to be honest.

 

[_Jazz_]

O.K TIA, I shant be reserved either so...
Stop s*** stirring

 

[Tia]

Excuse me? I have 25 horses and EVERY SINGLE one is held for my farrier....by me.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
Stop s*** stirring

[/ QUOTE ]

Pardon? You are not a responsible horse owner IF you do not teach your horse to stand quietly for someone else to perform their job. You are not a responsible horse owner IF you can't even be blooming bothered to hold YOUR OWN horse for the person to perform their job.

Not stirring at all....just letting you know what responsible horse owners do as a matter of course.

 

[dressagespain]

Well, with due respect, you really must not have anything better to do.

I work a full time job and have 3 horses to do, my farrier is therefore quite happy to come and do my horses, sometimes when I'm not even there. Trust is a beautiful thing!

 

[Tia]

Yes you are right. I don't have anything better to do. I only run a large hay farm, own a boarding stables and single handedly care for all of the horses, train my own young horses, own a trail riding business.... so no you are quite correct I have nothing better to do than teach my horses how to behave and I just love to stand around for 3 hours in -30 celsius temperatures to hold horses for my farrier.

 

[frannieuk]

Personally I feel it is only polite to hold the horse for the farrier - fair enough if your farrier is quite happy for you to go off and do other things but imo it is only courtesy to stay around in case he has a problem. I always hold my 2, as was proved yesterday, that even though they are both good to shoe, any horse can have an off day.

 

[dressagespain]

And by the way, I am a VERY responsible horse owner. I just have to do the absolute best with the time I have.

And I see no reason why you should have to put up with farriers that do not want to do the job they trained to do. If the horse that Mymills had described had turned itself inside out, I would understand his point but it just hopped for goodness sake.

And a 6yrs old horse that is NEW to you should be given a chance.

 

[_April_]

I think you have all made good points!
Remember guys that everyone thinks differently.

My personal opinion is that farriers should not be expected to deal with dangerous horses but it really is their own choice.
I also think that owners should do everything they can do ensure their horses are used to getting their feet picked up and desensitised etc but farriers should also remember that they are not machines and the odd blip can be expected!

Now lets all have a cup of tea and I shall return to my fence sitting lol

(that's not meant to be at ALL patronising btw incase it sounds it, which it did when I reread my post!)

 

[sojeph]

My twopenneth?....I don't blame a farrier for not shoeing an ill mannered horse and it is up to us to ensure our horses behave BUT I think it was wrong of this farrier to do what he did! The horse was fidgety by the sounds of it..thats all. All the farriers I've ever come across would be prepared to deal with this sort of thing and to hit someone elses horse is wrong IMO..hradly gonna help is it?!

 

[dressagespain]

Well Tia if you have so many other resposibilities perhaps its time to teach your horses to stand for the farrier. I used to work on a yard with over 70 horses and ponies and the yard owner DID NOT stand with them, just the young ones that needed to learn.

 

[_Jazz_]

Hi MYMILLS,
My guess is your farrier lost his temper

I totally agree with your thoughts QUOTE'I would of thought that when a farrier chooses to be a farrier he has to expect that there's an element of uncertainty that comes with the job, after all horses aren't robots, they're individuals and each case has to be treated as such and with every good experience leading to a better one next time. There's an element of danger with everything we do around horses and with a lot of jobs other than farriery.UNQUOTE
With regards to the 'hammering' OMG your lad was previously hit??? Please look for a 'Good' farrier, I'm sorry I live to far away to recommend one, maybe phone other yards and ask to attend as an observer to see whether any farrier they use looks /acts etc professionally. When we started de sensitizing Jazz to the'hammer' we literally started by gentle taps and working up to a crescendo. ONLY JOKING on the crescendo bit!!! We just tried to make it no big deal .
I really hope it works out better next time, for both of you. I believe the right farrier is priceless.
x