Fashionable types of horses, and do we 'categorise' too much?

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stormox

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I was looking through some old H&H the other day, 1960/70 vintage. One thing that struck me was- in the older ones there often wasn't even a phone number, just an address!! Some had phone numbers, others had 'box numbers' for people to write to.
The other thing I noticed is that types of horses have really changed.
The adverts were in height order, the biggest at the top. The biggest horses were rarely over 16.1 or maybe 16.2hh. There was certainly nothing over 17hh!
There were adverts for 'butty cobs' 'lovely blood horses' and 'lively hunters'
Hardly any skewbalds or other coloureds, only in ponies. (I can remember when it was seriously frowned on to take a coloured horse on the hunting field!)
Horses werent identified by breed as they are now, like ISH, Friesan, TB etc, they were advertised more by type (MW, ladies hunter, blood etc).
I think this is a good way of looking at horses, I am beginning to think people are putting too much emphasis on the breed and not enough on the individual horse. There is a lot of 'stereotyping'- I have seen lots of threads where people say they want a 'coloured cob' because they are quiet. Not so- some can be seriously awkward and self willed. I have a TB, my own friend who happily jumps 1.10 classes said to me 'how can anyone want a TB? The very word strikes fear into my heart'..... shes never ridden one!
Theres good and not good in all breeds- are we categorising too much now, especially since passports showing breeds came in? I know of many a TB that was sold in the old days as a hunter, and performed that job perfectly.
 
Yes. Almost like designer labels now which tell you nothing about the type of horse it is or the job it could do. A lot of people expect a TB to be fizzy, a warmblood to be a dressage star and so on when you can't lump them all in one band instead of actually looking at the job they want done and the capabilities of that horse to do it.
 
OK, I'll admit it... breed is important to me. It's funny as it wasn't before I had my accident, but now I have found the type of horse (carefully selected individual of course) that suits me and what I do with my horses (plus I think they are aesthetically attractive) and I want to stick to it. :)
 
Breed is important to me too. Admittedly it is down to the horse in front of you, but some breeds do have certain traits. So When looking for a new horse I'd rather narrow my search down, I don't want to view lots. TB's are athletes, I don't want one of those. I want a 'cold' horse, hence why I looked for an Irish draught. I fully appreciate that not all ID would fit into my criteria , but I bet I'd find what I'm looking for if I viewed 10 ID's as opposed to 10 others.
 
Breed is slightly important, however my youngster I didn't buy her for her breed, but for her bloodlines. I do think it's a shame her mum wasn't a Connemara, rather the Irish cob, but I'm biased as my older horse is conny x tb and she's the most loyal and amazing horse I've ever ridden. I'd have another like a shot, but was recommended my youngster through a friend. She's turning out a little cobbier than I'd hoped mind, since I've had to go treeless with her since her back is wide, and flat! Like faracat said too, both of mine are aesthetically good looking and pretty - it helps!
 
I think it's better now. There are far more breeds to chose from and if you want a particular type, at least you have the chance of viewing something vaguely in that category.
 
I generally don't care about breed or bloodlines as I'm not into showing or breeding; I tend to look more at their shape and conformation. I know what I like, though (Welsh Ds and similar).

People definitely pay a premium now for buckskins/duns/coloureds & roans. What does drive me bonkers is when people refer to their own horses as the wrong colour - calling them a dun when they're a true buckskin, a roan when they're an iron grey etc. I always feel like commenting on the ads!

I've noticed how fashionable Connies are now as well - a decent Connie will fetch upwards of £4,500, whereas you can get the same in a Welsh D for £1200.
 
Were you bored?! There do seem to be much bigger horses around, eg the 19h giant advertised the other day, and coloured have def been in trend for a while now. As for breeding, I don't like stereotyping generally and agree there are many exceptions (temp and attitude are more important to me, after conformation and soundness) but people do breed for traits. We have a long and illustrious history of specific breeding and I assume they reckon there is some science to it otherwise that's a lot of money to be spending on nowt! So I do think breed is relevant as it gives you a more defined type, build, and to a degree a prevelance of a certain behaviour etc.
 
I think breeding in some sense is important to me in the way that when looking for an eventer i would want something that is at least half tb so they have enough blood. What they are crossed with tbh i am open. I had a tb x connie she was amazing. I've now got an id x tb who is fab although takes more after the id! I also have a tb x Connie 3 year old & connie 3 year old.

I am much more bothered about the "type" & temprement although my 2 3 year olds are well bred :)
 
there were more blood horses around back in the day and yes, they were smaller (old saying-don't buy what you can't see over). More adults riding ponies and more anglos as sport horses. Noone rode coloureds unless you were a certain set of society, far fewer WBs around.
I've looked after many different breeds/types over the years and I love ponies and arabs/TBs/Iberians. Hence I have Exmoors (and had one as a kid) and a lusitano. I've never met a luso I didn't like but obviously personal bias comes into that . I want something clever, bold but with a good sense of self preservation, nice looking with no feather-my preference, my money, my choice :) A lot is in the bringing up though, as far as temperament/attitude is concerned so I rather get any horse very young.
For an all round general riding horse, the Iberians are hard to beat-they also have the metabolism (generally) that the ponies do which makes life easier!
 
I think of breeding as a factor when choosing a horse. Its certainly not the most important one, but it is a useful guide nonetheless.
I have ridden many different types of horses TBs, arabs, cobs, IDs - some fitted the stereotypes, others were the complete opposite. One of the most dangerous horses Ive ever ridden was a run of the mill cob. Equally Ive ridden a TB ex racer that I would trust with a novice.
So while I think if youve had a good experience with a particular breed then theres nothing wrong with using that breed as a guide when looking for a horse. However there are no guarantees, and I also think its important to look beyond the breeding and judge the horse on its own qualities.
 
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Its not just the breeding its the education, what they have experienced and how they have handled it. For example I know a dealer who used to buy from ireland so she claimed they were easier to sell, as anything irish has a mark up, but they never had passports so she would get them and put irish on them. For her sins most were bombproof and she did ride them out on the road before they were sold. But breed is stereo typing. (this was a few years ago btw)
 
i remember seeing a gypsy/coloured cob for the very first time as a kid back before they became common place and thought it was so odd it must have been crossed with a cow! lol certain breeds are important to me because when i win the lottery and buy lots of land ill have herds of arabs and lusos!
 
Breeds are a good way to look at horses as they generally are of a certain type.

Plus now that passports are mandatory for all horses and people are trying to encourage good responsible breeding means a lot more horses have "known" breeding.

Don't really see what is wrong with using breeds as an indicator, as people generally go to see the horse and try it so will judge horse based on that rather than a breed.

a good Connie is always worth their money - generally very versatile and make a good height and have good workmanlike action. Like mini hunters :) I'd rather have a Connie over a Welsh everytime! :)
 
Maesfen said:
Yes. Almost like designer labels now which tell you nothing about the type of horse it is or the job it could do. A lot of people expect a TB to be fizzy, a warmblood to be a dressage star and so on when you can't lump them all in one band instead of actually looking at the job they want done and the capabilities of that horse to do it.
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This. I don't care about breed so much as I'm not so into certain "types" (like super chunky types for example) purely because of the job I want the horse to do. At the end of the day though, I don't really care what breed it is as long as its big enough for me to ride and has a nice attitude. I am drawn to some sharper breeds (like Iberians, Welsh Cobs and Anglo Arabs for some reason!) just because I generally like their attitude and intelligence, but I would never go out purely to buy one breed.
 
I've loved Sec Ds since getting mine when we were both 13 (I lost him at 27). They appeal to my Welsh patriotism as well and I love their intelligence and quirkiness. However I am now too tall (if not too heavy) for all but the biggest of Ds so I don't have one but both mine and my share horse are a similar "type" - relatively chunky and hardy but with a bit of a spark. We don't actually know the breeding of mine although we assume he's an ID x something smaller if not lighter - maybe Connie or perhaps Irish Cob (he came over from Ireland). If he has any TB in him it's minimal judging by the size of his head / feet / bum!

My share horse is the funny one. For years (I've known him the whole 15 years my friend has had him and went with her to look at him) we thought his sire was full ID and his dam was Welsh x TB. This is what seller told us and although his passport has parents' names on there, no breeds were mentioned. We never questioned it as he really looks at least half ID with a bit of a ponyish head and (unfortunately) TB legs and feet, but with Welsh feathers. A couple of months ago at the age of 19, his breeder tracked him down and came to visit. It turns out his sire was a full TB and dam was 1/2 Section C 1/4 TB and 1/4 shire! The horse we told everyone for 15 years had a "typically Irish arse" and whose laid backness was put down to his Irsh breeding, has in fact no Irish in him at all! What we thought was 1/4 TB is in fact 5/8 TB! The only bit we had right was the Welsh and at 17hh that's probably the least apparent!
 
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I can see it from both points of view! I love tbs and I love Welsh d's and when looking for my current Welsh d I looked specifically for a Welsh d however that's because I wanted to show him at county plus level when he's old enough, when looking for my TB mare I looked for an eventer type and happened to end up with her so basically I looked for a horse who could do the job as opposed to a breed. For me I think I would pay more for a horse who was proven in a job rather than some warm blood who might make the grade. I think some prices are extortionate I enquired about some foals who I knew would be pricey however one was poa , one was 25000 and one was 18000 ... For an unweaned foal ... Now don't get me wrong they were bred for dressage but seriously they have another 3 1/2 years before they're sat on how can these prices be justified yes they may be bred to be the next Valegro but there is no guarantees no matter how well bred. A friend had a horse superbly bred should of made an international show jumper if his breeding was to go off yet he wouldn't go over a trotting pole never mind jump and another friend bought a gypsy trotter tethered to the road from a local gypsy and went on to win BSJA classes at Hoys and hickstead don't get me wrong I know this is exceptional circumstances but in my eyes price and sell the horse for what it is I'm not saying give the well bred youngsters away by any means but imo 25000 for foal who could go like a donkey is ludicrous but hey that's my opinion.
 
I have preferences for certain breeds, but this is down to the type they are, so fo me type is more important than breed. I agree OP on most of what you have said . Colour wise, skewbald and piebald were not popular, as with all fashions, things change. We don't even call them skewbald and piebald any more! (I do!)
 
Tern said:
That's cuz you can't tar them Ds with the same stick.. I would know, I have one. :D ;)
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Very true! On one hand I think 'I am never in my life having another' and on the other 'I would never have anything else'.

I feel like Connies are the more sane (albeit considerably less flashy IMO) option (although the only Connie we ever had was a mastermind at dumping people!)
 
I think there is much more emphasis on the breed, and I do wonder if that is a good thing. Personally type is, and always has been, most important. Although having said that, the Cleveland Bay is probably the only breed I would actually actively seek out, because their type is exactly my kind of horse. I lost mine last year and just couldn't find a replacement.

I too can remember the days (and I'm under 40) when a coloured was definitely looked down on. I had a little piebald mare, my first pony, probably some kind of Welsh cross. In her lifetime (I lost her at 30) coloureds had gone from second rate to very desirable, though I have never understood why.

Big horses are also definitely "in". I do have a 17.1 (coloured!) gelding but I bought him despite his colour and because of his type - mw sports/hunter. I am 5'10 with quite long legs so he genuinely is the right height for me. Anything less just doesn't take up the leg.

Welshies don't seem to be as popular these days, although my perception is probably distorted by the fact I grew up in Wales but don't live there now. Connies are definitely the native du jour. I've never had one so I can't comment on why.

Anyway, I do think it's a shame that breed seems to overrule type these days. I'm sure it puts some TBs and CBs - when you can find one- out of the running for no good reason.
 
It's funny, I was thinking the other day about how Arabs were very "in" at the end of the 90s/ start of the Millenium...every other person seemed to have one at local shows and pony club! But they don't seem quite so fashionable now, for whatever reason.
 
But overall most cobs will be quieter than most TBs.

I wouldn't have a TB as a gift no matter how talented it was, and I am sure people would say the same about cobs like mine.

It's ok to like different things. Don't take it as an insult.

I reckon breeds are more prevalent now because everything has a passport. Years ago many horses had no breeding recorded and you didn't know or care exactly what they were.
 
I think amateurs are also much more into the 'breeding' of a horse now. I hear so many people talking about their horse's bloodlines even though they won't ever breed from them and they'll only ever be an amateur horse. (Nothing wrong with that obviously, I am very much an amateur myself). It's very fashionable to have a well-bred horse atm, even if you don't actually need one.
 
I prefer to know breeds. I'm unfortunately the type who has been burned by certain breeds and not willing to try them out again, so i would want to know if a horse i was looking at had any tb or other hot type in it.

As for miniatures, again breeding is important purely because i prefer a certain type. But i would not turn down a really nice mini shetland or cross for driving.
 
I have a Connemara and a Welsh D xTb. With the connie we set out to buy one. He's a lovely person and is as genuine as anything, but is a typical Connie. The world is out to eat him, he's stubborn and he won't do a job he doesn't want to do. He's now mums happy hack. A job he enjoys emmensly and takes very seriously. Competing and in fact schooling wasn't quite so much his thing. I hunt him too - he's very good at that!

The Welsh DxTb, I went to buy an eventer stamp. Liked the sound of the cross and loved his type. He was unbacked, but we liked him. He's a star. So eager to please. And I'm very pleased.

So I'd rather buy by type. I certainly got what I wanted that way as opposed to wanting a fashionable breed.
 
HashRouge said:
It's funny, I was thinking the other day about how Arabs were very "in" at the end of the 90s/ start of the Millenium...every other person seemed to have one at local shows and pony club! But they don't seem quite so fashionable now, for whatever reason.
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I was thinking this the other day too! I was saying that when I was younger, everyone always wanted an Arab, I however always wanted an Andalusian (or a PRE as they are now known) as I have always thought of them as horse perfection. Now I own one, I'm not disappointed and wouldn't even consider any other breed! :)
 
I have definitely got more fussy as I have got older - as a kid I wanted 'a pony ' but as I've progressed in the sport I've wanted something to do a particular job... The last time I went looking I wanted a dark coloured Holstein or Dutch gelding that had dressage lines and good paces I ended up with a mare but otherwise that's what I bought and she is exactly what I expected from my criteria - the more exact and decerning u r with your specification the less likely are u to make an error imo
 
We will probably be looking for a project pony in the Autumn. It will almost certainly be a Connie because the Irish have been specifically breeding performance ponies for years, from proven performance stock. There are some NF which are equally talented but in an unbroken youngster there is a far bigger element of luck involved. If I was looking for a hack or RC allrounder then conformation and temperament would be more important than breed.
 
I do think that breeding has changed aswell though!

There are a lot more "average" ponies & horses being bred by people who have never bred & shouldn't or accidentally pregnancies !
 
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