Fat at the Front - Skinnier at the Back

MrsMozart

MrsMozart

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Welsh cross, about 13hh, teeth fine, worming up to date, aged - asked the dentist again yesterday if she could age him, but no, he's either just under twenty or over, can't tell (had too much power took work when we got him as teeth were in a terrible state), laminitic (though no attack for nearly two years, maybe a tad longer), arthritic on back end, had him for four years or so. He's been retired for two years as he just gets too stressed ridden and is a fruit loop to put it mildly.

Anyhoo, when we got him, he was very, very fat, but over time that's gone. Last summer he put on some weight, but was good going into winter. Through the winter he put on a bit too much weight (all four horses did), so we adjusted diets and got him back to being okay again fairly quickly. Now he has fat pads just behind his shoulders, but he's starting to dip in between the end of his rib cage and the start of his quarters. If you were to look at the fron end only, you'd say he needed to lose a bit, but if you were to look at the back end only, you'd think he needs fattening up a bit.

His coat is not as bright and shiny as is usually is and he still has some winter coat hanging on. His coat has slightly whiskery hairs as well. He's started rubbing his head again (last did it for sure three years ago), and the base of his neck at the front.

He seems bright enough in himself, not quite as energetic as he used to be, but okay. He was playing in the school with D1 today, though I think he would rather have been eating the grass in the corner lol.

Dentist says his teeth are pretty good for him. Nothing loose. He's packing food in the sides, but she couldn't find a reason for it, other than a couple of funny little flaps of skin on the inside of his mouth. The food was fresh, so he's not carting it around with him. There was a bit of tartar, but nothing drastic.

He's on Speedibeat, one Bute, Milk Thistle, and glycosemine(sp!). The Trad cob he shares a field with is on the plump side, even though he only gets a handful of Speedibeat to get his vits in.

The vet is coming out at the end of the week to give him a check over, but I thought I'd ask if anyone has any thoughts or ideas.

Cookie Dough ice-cream :D
 
sounds like cushings disease
i have rescue ponies with same body type that all have cushings
ask vet to do test for cushings

medication.
pergolide or new substitute (expensive) has side affects. pure chemocal

or hilton herbs cush x supplement. i find it works within 2 weeks.
gets rid of long hair and hair shiny.
pony reduces the amount(excess) that they drink
new lease of life
or chastetree berry supplement (most cushings herbal supplements have this in)
pm me for help if req
 
Thank you E.

I looked at Cushings. Was hoping it wasn't that as his coat is not thick and curly, and seems sparse more than thick, if that makes sense. Last winter his coat went thick like a carpet, but didn't go long.

Oh bollops.

Will go look it up again.

I'll put it to my vet.

Thanks again E.
 
Hmmm sounds very like my old mare who is 27 and retired. My vet came to see the youngster and glanced across the field at old girlie and sort of mumbled "oh she's looking good for her age - typical cushings shape though".
When I asked what she meant (no official diagnosis but she does hold her coat in the spring and it is very long nowadays and she is a native x) she said - a little poor over the loins/quarters with fat belly. (Not unlike myself I fear:D).
She has improved with some chasteberry so I would also recommend this and it is not expensive. She has never had lamminitis and her teeth are good for her age. She has dengie lite, ad lib haylage, fair grazing and spillers original balancer. If she looks poor in the winter she has speedie beet. If your lad is over 20 then I would suspect mild cushings.
 
Thank you MT :)

I recognise the description, though I'm a Cushings in reverse :rolleyes::cool:

Oh blast. Poor wee lad. I'll have to go read up more on it.

Where do I get chaste tree berry thingy from? Would a local saddler be likely to stock it or do I need to get it on-line?

Obviously I'll check with my vet. She was coming out to check him over anyway.

*trots off to look up Cushings*
 
just to throw something else into the mix....
my 8 yr old is similar, fat pads behind shoulders etc but no muscle or condition behind. he is currently having a yr off for some back/hock problem and vets think his lack of condition behind is related to this. from the back you'd say he could do with gaining a bit, from the front he's positively fat!!!
 
I get mine from feedmark Mrs M. They deliver free, next day and have loads of special offers. I use their plain Chasteberry suplement but they have just brought out a special one for cushing suffers called Cplus or something like that:rolleyes: I also give her dried rosehips which seem to keep her well as a general suplement.

My vet is very good and said there was not much point in testing as she was typical cushings type - connie x arab, over 20, held her coat for the last few springs, long very thick, not curly coat, and typical shape. As she is well in herself we have decided to just suck it and see with her. She loves her grub, and I do not want to restrict her too much. She owes us nothing - she was my daughters 10th birthday present 15 years ago and I have boxes and boxes of rosettes upstairs they won together. Cushings is neither here nor there with her. At 27 she is bound to have something wrong and it does not seem to affect her.

I hope your lad does as well as old girlie. (AKA old bag:eek::D)
 
Right, I've done some reading.

If it is Cushings, it is, as suggested, a mild case.

He still has muscle and fat at the front end. His tummy is currently not fat. He seems to have dipped a bit along his back, but that could be my paranoia. He is definitely lighter on the back end weight wise. He's been weigh taped, but that now isn't a 'true' measurement. His coat has a lot of grey/white hairs over his body that he didn't used to, plus longer hairs. But, his coat looks thinner, whereas a year ago it went very thick (but short).

I'm going to tie my head in knots aren't I. I'll shut up now, other than to say thank you for your input folks.

I'll let you know what the vet says.
 
If he is thinner behind and suffers from arthritis I'd put my money being on that, they often tend to use the front end more and so build up more muscle there, a badly fitting saddle/back problems can do the same thing, they end up over developed at the front end from almost 'dragging' themselves instead of working from behind.
 
I had a mare this shape when I first got her. She also used to stand with her front legs well back. Her feet were a major problem, flat, severe cracks etc.
Over the years as her feet have improved and I've learned more and more about laminitis and diet, minerals, sugars etc. she has become much more normal in shape. Looking back I put it down to LGL (low grade laminitis) and her using her body incorrectly to deal with the constant pain/discomfort in her hooves. Dietry imbalance also affects coat and all body functions.
If your pony is prone to laminitis this could be a factor. It could well mean lots of research for you and a change in diet and lifestyle for him.

Pete Ramey, Kathryn Watts, Yahoo IR/Cushings groups for diet help are very useful places to start if this is relevant to him.

Mta. http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/
 
Sorry C and MT, I missed your replies :eek:

He's been out of work for about two years. I've lost track of when exactly we Reuter him. He's kept his shape pretty well and his management hasn't changed. Been on the same yard since last August. Goes into the school for a play. All the usual stuff. But will bear in mind, ta :)

Good to hear your lass is doing well :). This pony is a tinker, but we love him despite his interesting outlook on life lol. He's so much better than he was manners, etc. wise :D

Please excuse if my reply is a bit higgedly piggedly, I'm on an iPad and in an office, so am limited in so many directions ;):rolleyes::cool:

T - been retired for a good couple of years. Has been sat on maybe five times in total, bareback, max ten minutes each time. Back person happy with him now he's not being ridden (he used to get worked up, especially if jumping, so we stopped the jumping, then stopped the schooling, and in the end stopped the hacking). He did have a phase where it looked like he had Stringhalt. Very funny hind leg action, but that was about two years ago and it hasn't reappeared since then.

A - his feet were awful when we got him. Splits, etc., but farriers did their thing and they came reasonably good, the laminitis bouts affected them obviously, with some rotation. Since then, we've treated him as laminitic, as in no sugars and no stress in so far as possible. He was fed haylage last year, which I have only recently found out about, but I am assuming that wouldn't be affecting him now as it was about twelve months ago. He's in a field that is fairly flat, sheltered down two sides with hedges and the grazing is minimal (though enough for the 13.3hh Trad cob with him to be putting on a tad too much weight!). He's been barefoot for most of the four years we've had him, other than fronts and heart bars when he needed them. He gets a multi-vit, ad lib access to salt, glycosemine(sp!), Speedibeet, Milk Thistle, and is on one Bute a day when it's cold, the ground is hard, or he's looking stiff, which makes it most days at the moment. He'll still have a good trot round and a bit of a buck and play with Little Cob.

The changes in him are fairly new, in the fat at the front and the getting a tad thinner between the end of his rib cage and his quarters/flanks. The profile of his rump is becoming more angular.

I was going to change his feed, but was waiting to speak to the vet as what does one give whence one end is fat and the other end isn't?
 
when we get a pony in with suspected cushings ( i do rescue work)
1st take some pics side front rear views. gives u a point to go back on.
2nd worm with verm x (pellets) wormer the pelets are a liver tonic as well as wormer.
3rd put on cush x ( hilton herbs) for 4 weeks
4th take same pics again compare with previous pics
i usually find there is a marked difference with most ponies within 4 weeks (sometimes a lot sooner).
i dont use pergolide the chemical medication for cushings ( there is now a new product) still chemical.

continue worming with verm x (pellets) if got cushings chemical wormers put too much strain on liver.

chastetreeberry or hh cush x are the best we have used. tried lots
 
Thank you E :D

I'll get him photographed on Saturday.

He was wormed about two or so months ago (I'll have to check the diary for the exact date and what it was we used). I'll check with the vet then try the pellets.

Will order the herbs tomorrow.

He's on Milk Thistle to try and help his liver.

I'll let you know how we go on.

Thank you again!
 
I use Verm-X on my elderly welsh pony with cushings. Has worked wonders and I would have hated to leave her un-wormed. I called the Verm-X people before starting her with Verm-X and they let me speak to their very lovely vet who was ever so helpful
 
touchstone said:
If he is thinner behind and suffers from arthritis I'd put my money being on that, they often tend to use the front end more and so build up more muscle there, a badly fitting saddle/back problems can do the same thing, they end up over developed at the front end from almost 'dragging' themselves instead of working from behind.
Click to expand...

I was thinking this ^^^
 
Thank you.

Vet has seen him. Suspects mild Cushings, given age and appearance. Said, that apart, she hasn't seen him looking that good in ages :D

He's happy enough for now, so is chilling nicely in the field with his mate.
 
That is funny because we had our girl tested this week as her coat was worse and she is confirmed as having mild cushings and insulin resistance.
Vet reckoned that she had seen much worse looking horses 6 or 7 years younger:) She is 27 and apart from the coat she looks great. These oldies do amazingly well. We are going to start her on pergolide so we shall see how that goes.
 
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