Fat Competition Riders

[kerilli]

Kerilli-don't you see you're saying the same thign as others are saying about larger/fat riders.
There can be perfectly good skinny riders, and perfectly rubbish ones. Same as there can be perfectly good fat riders and perfectly rubbish ones. And some of hte fat riders will be better than the skinny ones. And some of the skinny ones will be better than the fat ones...

Nope, I don't think I am, actually.
If you are saying in the above statement that what everyone else is saying is your 2nd paragraph, I disagree fairly fundamentally with that, and I don't think that is the general gist of this thread either.
Of course there are exceptions. I saw a foreign sj rider years ago jumping in the big class at Hickstead, she was a seriously large lady on top of a skinny blood weed. They were brilliant, no question. Do I think they'd have been even better if she'd been slimmer? Yes, I do. Ditto Becky Holder, I think she's a truly great rider, no question. I think she'd be even better if she could lose a bit more. I know she's lost quite a bit and I applaud her for it. Nobody said it was easy to lose.
Overall I think a lighter weight rider has less capacity to do damage (on horse's back, mouth, legs) than a heavy rider. I know very good riders can ride 'light', and beginners or unbalanced riders can ride 'heavy', but weight is weight. A 16 stone rider cannot be the same to carry as a 10 stone rider, however expert the former. The point-to-point example up there is very telling.

 

[little_flea]

Also agree with Susie T - I am stumpy-legged and there is nothing I can do about that! I am 5'3 and 8.5 stone and look wrong on my 17.2hh horse (see thread below for video - it just doesn't look that great) but I don't want to ride ponies, so I guess I just have to accept what I am. Suppose the difference is that at least nobody can tell me to grow longer legs... they just quietly pity me from the arena fence! :-D

 

[pinktiger]

i too am no skinimini, 10st size 12,, im fit enough to carry a decent amount of muscle and control my 17'2(really wouldnt want to be any smaller or weaker)!! i too like you watched some dressage very recently and was amazed by a couple of larger ladies, one to me, just looked too unbalanced esp when in med trot, really looked to be affecting the horse tbh and im sure the judges mustve noticed, but they are ever tactful and im sure marked accordingly!

 

[SusieT]

Sorry,I didnt mean youw ere saying fat riders coul dbe good riders.
You were saying the same about skinny riders as many are saying about fat riders. So it works both ways. But anyway, this thread has shown several people up in a very bad light imo, some have been very sensible, some are just anti-fat people full stop.

 

[kerilli]

Sorry,I didnt mean youw ere saying fat riders coul dbe good riders.
You were saying the same about skinny riders as many are saying about fat riders. So it works both ways. But anyway, this thread has shown several people up in a very bad light imo, some have been very sensible, some are just anti-fat people full stop.

Did you actually read what I wrote in my last post?
I said that Becky Holder is "a truly great rider" and that the large sj lady and her horse were "brilliant".
So, please do not imply that I said anywhere that fat riders cannot be good riders.
I reserve the right to believe that if they were lighter, they'd be even better.

If your final comment is aimed at me, ouch, but that's your opinion.
I'm not anti-fat people unless they are on top of a quality horse doing big fences over long distances, or they are unbalanced and using the reins to stay on. I don't like seeing lightweight riders do that either, but imho they do less damage...

 

[brushingboots]

I do feel that I would be better to get the weight off. I'm just pants at it!
!

Ditto

Im not saying we should all be athlete but we should all do some form of cardio exercise to maintain are own lever of fitness, so if you cant run for at least 30mins, are you really fit enough to be riding a horse??

i think thats rather harsh. 30 mins is a VERY long time, and someone like myself can't physically run 30 mins due to broken bones being pinned back together!

so... Fat is bad.. What about those with a dodgy knee or ankle who can't balance properly? And those who get left behind and jab horse in the mouth?

hhhmnnnnnn



Right, i'm not skinny infact i fall into the overweight category for my height according to my PE books. However, i'm happy with my body i feel better than i have for ages and yes, i know i could do with loosing some and i watch what i eat, i only eat 'fatty' foods when i feel i 'need' to. I ride a KWPN a skinny one [Minnie] and yes i feel i look fat on her. And i tell you what i damn hate it. I feel like i make her looks **** because of me. Someone has told me that i'm 'too fat for my horse' and thats bloody hurtful and gives me an incentive to loose weight. So if someone thinks im fat - please tell me
Since those times i've lost weight apparantly and people keep telling me i have so im obviously doing something right

 

[Firewell]

I do not deny that slim riders are going to be more athletic and consequently more capable. You rarely see overweight riders at the olympics that's fair enough. At the higher levels riders have to be athletes like the horses.

However I am a bit cross by this thread. Not everyone wants to compete at a high level and why should we deny anyone the pleasure of horses no matter their size, or age!!! Lots of older riders aren't as athletic for obvious reasons either!!

Imagine that you are overweight, I'm sure you are painfully aware of the fact and only too aware of your physical capabilities. Imagine that you adore horses and dedicate your life to them. You decide to take your lovely big shire x to do a local prelim. You know you are no world beater but you would like to improve and compete. Imagine preparing for your test, getting nervous, plaiting up in the dark.
Then imagine getting to the show trying your best to warm up as your instructor told you and then you notice a pair of nasty little women looking at you... Sniggering and whispering that you look funny in your jodphurs and the fact you are a bit wobbly . Your not hurting your horse and you aren't hurting them, you knew you weren't going to win but now you feel utterly crap and useless and very upset.

I don't really know what this thread was meant to achieve but I bet it's served to make someone who adores horses feel very inadequate when they shouldn't do because none of us are perfect. Even the slim athletic ones amongst us are going to be old and wobbly one day and I know im going to still want to ride and compete then!

 

[LEC]

I think we have moved away slightly from the point of my post which was talking specifically about competition riders and whether we shy away from telling the people the truth about how they could improve their riding.

Also I am not really talking about weight as one persons optimal weight is another persons morbidly obese but instead fat which I think is quite different as fat weighs less than muscle. Emma Hindle is not the same shape as Laura Bechtolsheimer but does not stop them both being great riders and both are fit to ride.

 

[kerilli]

firewell, the title of the thread was "Fat Competition Riders", not "overweight riders on weight-carriers", which I'm sure 99% of people will not have a problem with.
This thread was really not about making people feel inadequate imho.

 

[TGM]

However I am a bit cross by this thread. Not everyone wants to compete at a high level and why should we deny anyone the pleasure of horses no matter their size, or age!!!

I don't think anyone on here is saying overweight riders shouldn't ride at all. What IS being said, is that if overweight riders want to compete seriously, or even want to improve their performance at the lower levels, then they should consider losing weight and that their instructors shouldn't be afraid to point that out!

One poster on here made a comment about seeing rider errors in people's sigs on here - but you can bet if those riders had a lesson then their instructor would point out those errors - whether it is being left behind, bad hands, in front of the movement, etc. However, there are many instructors who can see weight is hindering their pupil's progress, and are too scared to raise the issue.

I am happy to admit that I am not built for riding, being short with stumpy legs! However, when I was competing on a regular basis I was a size 8 and found riding a lot easier than I do now at a size 12 with flabby thighs!

 

[dressagecrazy]

I think people are making a mistake comparing Ametuer competitiors with Pro's. Most Pro riders are rarely out of the saddle for most of the day so there is no doubt that 9 times out of 10 there going to be slimmer & are normally better riders due to the amount they ride.

Ive put on weight since my horse got ill & it's annoying me but unfortunately i tend to eat when stressed & im very stressed all the time atm. I still feel like a balanced rider but im very none confident in myself so the weight is being shifted.

 

[KatB]

It started off talking about fat people (therefore people who are overweight, and unfit, so therefore not having the core strength to stay on a horse in true balance) competing, to anyone over a size 6 with less than excessively long legs not being able to ride effectively. hmmmmm.

A lot of it is subjective tbh. Some peoples fat (and I suspect a couple of the more "extremist" on here...) is anything over a size 10 and 9.5 stone. Some people view fat as being someone carrying excessive body weight and being untoned, unfit and as a result uneffective. My idea of fat is the latter.

I have a friend who is constantly complemented on her slender build, and yet she is the same clothes size and height as me. However, she has a short body, and long legs, I have short thighs, and long calves, with a long body. Therefore she is slimmer in appearance.

However, she is the first to admit I am probably fitter than her, and have better core strength. So, from appearance sake, she is going to be the better rider if we are going on comments on here... in practise, I am probably fitter for the job, and have better balance/core strength.

By the standards of some people on here, a lot of the "lesser" pro's aren't ideal for riding, yet get the results, and do bloody well. That is because the people on here's perception is good riders fit a certain image, which simply is not true.

I think what people need to be doing is making the best of what they have got, and by making themselves more body aware and fitter, they will naturally loose any excess weight. However, lets not confuse excess weight with "reaching size 0 because it looks prettier", because for a majority of riders, this is not making them more effective or better riders, which is surely what we are striving for?!

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I agree katb, I had a gym induction a while ago, Im about 1 1/2 stone off the weight Id like to be (Im loosing a stone before the start of the eventing season) but when looking at my body fat and muscle my fat was normal and but I have 5% more muscle than the higher end.

It is scary I have some friends who weigh around the same but I fit in a size 12 however some of them are in 16/18? Which is scary!! Im never going to be size 6 with long legs and im never going to be a world beater of a rider, but im concious of not being to heavy for my mare and I want to make her life as easy as possible!

 

[Decision_Tree]

with alot of what KatB just said. I am off the camp that overweight unfit or generally unfit riders would all benefit for being fitter. I think it has nothing to do with size zero which is what this topic seems to have veered towards - posting a pick of a size zero siting on a horse tells me nothing of their ability to ride in balance. I am of the impression that Katie Price isnt far off size zero and ive seen plenty of slating of her riding ability!

As Figjam will tell you - to be XC able I have to be able to run 5km in about 25mins as I am a weezer so like to be fit enough to make it round without feeling out of breath! Brushingboots - I doubt you are unable to do 30mins of cardio work due to pins, isnt cycling one of the main exercises given post op to help people recover? cycling is as good as running for a cardio workout.

 

[icestationzebra]

I don't think anyone on here is saying overweight riders shouldn't ride at all. What IS being said, is that if overweight riders want to compete seriously, or even want to improve their performance at the lower levels, then they should consider losing weight and that their instructors shouldn't be afraid to point that out!

One poster on here made a comment about seeing rider errors in people's sigs on here - but you can bet if those riders had a lesson then their instructor would point out those errors - whether it is being left behind, bad hands, in front of the movement, etc. However, there are many instructors who can see weight is hindering their pupil's progress, and are too scared to raise the issue.

I am happy to admit that I am not built for riding, being short with stumpy legs! However, when I was competing on a regular basis I was a size 8 and found riding a lot easier than I do now at a size 12 with flabby thighs!

Well reasoned TGM

 

[PucciNPoni]

So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing? Thoughts?

Wow, just spent about 20 minutes reading all the repsonses on here, and rather than trying to get my head round all the different directions this thread has gone, I'd like to just reply to the OP.

I too have seen very large riders (20stone ish) riding large horses, able to carry their weight, but the riders looked unbalanced. I've also seen slim riders look unbalanced. Neither is a pretty picture, IMO. And if a riding instructor is being paid for an opinion, I think that if it is their opinion that a rider either needs to lose weight or to gain strength etc, then they should educate their pupil/client.

When I got back in to riding after a ten year break, I weighed 9stone (I'm 5'3"), could run 10k in an hour (good for me anyway!), was very well muscled with good core stability. I had been going to the gym for ten years instead of riding! Also, I'm a dog groomer and work on my feet day in and day out, lifting and running about. So when I got back in to riding, I couldn't afford to do both (time or financially) and kept up the running on my own for a bit - but then even time wise I just couldn't cope with a horse on DIY. So over the past five years now, I've put on a stone. My horse was off work for nearly a year, so even more weight went on.

So a few months ago, I'm struggling with a new horse...and the problem has to do with BALANCE! So my RI very politely and tactfully told me that arse is too big for my saddle! LOL That's what I needed to hear and she's right. I tease her about it, but she's so right and I'm glad she's said something about it. So I'm on the road to losing a bit of weight cos I know HOW, just needed the kick up the fat backside to do it. (thank you Madame Whiplash!).

I probably would however take umbrage with a judge telling me this. My RI is a different story.

 

[Gamebird]

And I think that the other point that was raised (by BaggyBreeches and myself amongst others) is that some of us 'competition riders' aspire to compete against the pros on an equal basis. Maybe not at Badminton or at Aintree but certainly at Nov BE or PTP Ladies Open level. If being fit enough to truly do the job well entails being half a stone lighter - whether that's to help your core strength for the dressage, support your horse over the last XC fence or pull up after 3 miles without being seriously out of breath - then are we wrong to try to put ourselves on an even footing?

Like I said before - if I can improve my performance by 10% by losing 10% of my bodyweight and being 10% fitter then I'm up for it, no question.

 

[KatB]

And I think that the other point that was raised (by BaggyBreeches and myself amongst others) is that some of us 'competition riders' aspire to compete against the pros on an equal basis. Maybe not at Badminton or at Aintree but certainly at Nov BE or PTP Ladies Open level. If being fit enough to truly do the job well entails being half a stone lighter - whether that's to help your core strength for the dressage, support your horse over the last XC fence or pull up after 3 miles without being seriously out of breath - then are we wrong to try to put ourselves on an even footing?

Like I said before - if I can improve my performance by 10% by losing 10% of my bodyweight and being 10% fitter then I'm up for it, no question.

Completely agree! It is all about being as EFFECTIVE as you possibly can, and without doubt fitness will help that, and by increasing muscle tone and core strength, you will be able to be at the top of your game. Doesn't mean this level of fitness and effectiveness will fit some peoples "ideal" of a size 6 perfectly proportioned rider though!

 

[Foxford]

My husband is an amateur triathlete and he has been told by his swimming coach and a cycling buddy if he wants to improve his times he needs to lose weight. Maybe men are just more brutally honest! My husband is not at all fat, think a slim rugby build.

I would have no problem with being told to lose weight to improve an aspect of my performance, but then I'm quite thick skinned. I have been extremely thin, as a teenager growing up I was a size 6 and 5'10". Now I'm a size 12 and happy!!! But people did frequently comment that I was too thin. It definately seen as more acceptable to comment on a thin persons weight.

 

[louisem]

I am skinny;with skinny calves but chunky arms and shoulders,as a showjumper,riding horses over fences 1.30plus I do think I have an advantage. I do not believe,however it makes me a better rider than someone who weighs 20kg more than me!!! Racehorses run faster carrying less weight,so it stands to reason that showjumpers should be able to jump higher (easier) carrying less weight...
BUT, as has been said before,balance and technique can and will trump 'just being lightweight' I know many riders,male and female,weighing up to twice my bodyweight who have feeling and know-how,have experience and routine and in no way hinder their horse through being heavier,and who could ride any 'lightweight' into the ground....
I also know a few more who,despite being near the top of their discipline,would like to lose several kilos to improve their form....

 

[Kokopelli]

My view on it is the horses have to be fit to compete on a reugular basis so why shouldn't the rider be fit? I think it not a weight issue as such but a fitness issue and if a heavy rider was fit then they would not cause a horse much harm.

A horses skin weighs A LOT but moves with the horse so they don't feel it, if a rider moved with the horse they would not feel the weight as much.

However, I personally would be distraught if someone said to me I was too heavy to ride, having had problems with image and staying slim a couple of years back I've only just got confidence in my size (which is not big) as I have no self confidence, if someone said I was overweight I would go into a downward spiral again making me ill.

 

[*hic*]

thought better of it.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

iv nothing aginst larger people riding or competing, but its got to be horse and disipline appropriate......its easy for me to say because im naturally skinny and bony, but people do sometimes need to look to themselves before blaming the horse......if they were fitter and a stone lighter, would the horse be less resistant, more forward etc....

i really honestly feel for people who have a medical issue that either predisposes (sp?) them to weight gain or means they cannot exercise enough to lose it, but in that case feel they need to find a horse that can cope, and then pick a disipline to suit that horse IE if you are too big for an event type to carry you easily round the XC, buy a chunkier warmblood or draft cross and do some dressage or SJ.

i agree with Kerilli ref tall and skinny helping balance-i do a lot of re-schooling of thugs and spoilt brats, and some really seriously spit the dummy, and i doubt id be able to follow the movement and stick on board if i was a lot bigger. momentum would be greater, more of me to move quickly etc etc. in the same vein i disagree that you need a lot of muscle or weight to do anything with horses, at 5'7 and now 7 stone 10, theres not a lot of me to fight with, but i ride some of the vilest sods around and manage to mould them back in to decent equine citizens!

 

[kerilli]

jemima_too, oh, shame, that was a good post.
first of all, good luck tomorrow. that's an enviable dressage sheet in anyone's book.
since you've thought better of it, I won't post the rest of what I was going to say, but I assure you it wasn't negative...

 

[now_loves_mares]

Oh my - quite a thread! I have to confess to only having read a small fraction of it, but Jemima's post made me think the thread had gone a long way off topic.....(that's a lovely dressage sheet by the way, I hope your comp tomorrow goes just as well!)

FWIW, I should be upfront and say I'm the 5'6" 8-stone rider that I think you all love to hate (though not a weakling due to the associated chores that go with horses). Therefore I can't say how I'd feel if I was told by a judge or instructor that losing weight would help my riding, as it's not a personally emotive issue for me.

However, the OP asked whether we thought that it was someone's responsibility to point out that this would improve someone's riding and overall performance. I'm not sure that it's the judge's job, they point out the technicalities (eg, you are out of balance) but I think it's up to the rider to work with their instructor on the root cause of those issues. So I do feel in some circumstances, it should be up to the instructor. You pay them to tell you how to ride better - I'd therefore expect to get my money's worth. I've been told by my instructor various things such as "your horse is too fat", "you aren't fit enough", "do some pilates" that sort of thing (not all in one day though ). I take them to mean - Here is a limitating factor (call it a blocker if you will) that is hampering my ability to win/progress. But my instructor knows I'm competitive, I've come to her to hear it warts and all. I think it's maybe worthwhile having an upfront conversation with a new instructor as to what you expect. But let's say in theory you'd been getting the comment LEC remarked on (ie Out of balance) for 2 or 3 years, and been going to lessons but never seeing an improvement; would you feel cheated if it transpired it was due to weight, but no-one had ever pointed it out? I think most people would feel it was 100% your instructor's duty to say the things like "you are out of balance because your saddle slopes backward" or "you are out of balance because you ride with too long stirrups"; but seems like not everyone agrees that it's the same when the issue is weight?

From what I can tell, no-one was saying "fat people shouldn't ride". I do find it sad how sometimes these posts degenerate so far away from the original point

(sorry for all the quotation marks, it seemed the only way )

 

[Saucisson]

OH has told me more than once that I need to loose weight for when I start competetive riding (this winter - fingers crossed). He's right, I do. I'm not huge but I'm definitely squishy and I find that fatter thighs and a wobbly gut definitely hinder my balance and strength (doesn't help being short in the leg). I will do it for my horse - if we want to do well together, I need to help him out by making his job easier! He himself has lost plenty of weight since I've had him.......

Mind you, OH is no diplomat. He went to his fancy lesson with his fancy instructor last week. He went to look at the next lesson and it was a rather large girl.

I quote OH "if I was her horse I'd be calling my union" and he did have a point.

I think that we all know what's a good weight for ourselves. It's in ours and our horses interests to try not to be too huge. By this, I tend to mean wibbly-wobbly fat, not just big lasses - if ya catch my drift......

 

[alwaysbroke]

Interesting thread.

I am currently going round in circles in my head re my weight.

On the plus side I am 5' 7 with my height being in my legs, on the negative side I FEEL like I am overweight,(hence my tongue in check post last week, saying my bum looked big in a hunting pic) statistically I am within normal limits for my height. My mother was right, once past 40 the weight is too easy to put on and VERY difficult to lose.

I have various health issues, exercising to get fitter is proving almost impossible, I have cut down on my intake, and now eat much more healthy, but I still feel uncomfortable. The horses I ride dont appear to have any issues with me, but it doesn't stop me worrying about them, to the point I almost feel like giving up, something that I dread having to do. Atm I wouldn't dream of riding round a xc, but would be up to a dressage test or two, I suppose it comes down to the rider knowing their limits, perhaps some do and others dont.

 

[coreteam1]

I'm a large person (constantly battling with Chocolate!) and 5ft 9 so have longer legs which help and ride a large 17.1 horse. Ride the right size horse for your size, enjoy yourself and love you horse

Oh yeh nearly forgot... picture of me below racing at Southwell on Monday


http://www.flickr.com/photos/32105456@N06/5118226999/ by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/32105456@N06/

 

[stencilface]

Mind you, OH is no diplomat. He went to his fancy lesson with his fancy instructor last week. He went to look at the next lesson and it was a rather large girl.

I quote OH "if I was her horse I'd be calling my union" and he did have a point.

I can see how that wouldn't be pleasant to be on the receiving end of, but still funny. Then again, am I right in thinking that your OH (and you?) are not british? I think its the british who have an issue with this. When I went shopping in Rome a shop assistant (me being size 12) had no qualms about telling me she didn't have anything big enough for me in her shop!

I think tbh, many people on here are arguing for the same point (its a bit like listening to Jeremy Vine....). I'll be honest, I don't like seeing bigger, unbalanced unfit riders on horses. I don't like seeing any unbalanced unfit riders, but if they have less weight to fall around then imho, its not as bad.

Having said that, by some of your standards I am not exactly small, and neither am I at the peak of fitness or the best rider in the world

 

[DanaHart]

Interesting thread.

I am currently going round in circles in my head re my weight.

On the plus side I am 5' 7 with my height being in my legs, on the negative side I FEEL like I am overweight,(hence my tongue in check post last week, saying my bum looked big in a hunting pic) statistically I am within normal limits for my height. My mother was right, once past 40 the weight is too easy to put on and VERY difficult to lose.

I have various health issues, exercising to get fitter is proving almost impossible, I have cut down on my intake, and now eat much more healthy, but I still feel uncomfortable. The horses I ride dont appear to have any issues with me, but it doesn't stop me worrying about them,

Echo this..... I am 6'2" tall and weigh around 13 stone, my horse is a MW 17.1hh and well capable of carrying me, but I constantly worry about my weight and I would really like to lose about a stone to feel trully comfortable riding her.....

I once asked a question...... how fat is too fat to ride? I was shot down in flames, but I was trully interested in peoples opinions (I didn't want to offend anyone), but surely there is an upper weight limit on what a horse should be expected to carry...... If I were to approach a lot of the riding schools about riding lessons on their horses, I would be too heavy, as they have a 12 stone limit.