Fat horses

SilverLinings

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2017
Messages
2,423
Visit site
I think lots of things drive the issue because it’s not just showing .
When the vets worked out how to scope horses there’s was an emphasis on the 24/7 forage message this was music to many people ears in including my own I ended up with all my horses too fat .
The fact is that many many horses can’t eat forage 24/7 without becoming obese even when they are working our hunters still have their forage restricted and we don’t feed any quantity of hard food unless in exceptional circumstances.
I have to stand my horses in all day from mid May ( depends on the weather )or they would explode and they work.
I just don’t know how people keep their horses out all summer without disaster striking unless they are young growing horses .
The quality of the food is extremely high now a days but most horses don’t need masses of hard food , haylege is very nutritious even if it’s Timothy add add Lib haylege to a decent pasture mix and the horses are getting masses of high quality food my horses hunt on balancers and haylege the more they do the less we restrict the haylege .
I think it’s easy to miss when a young horse for example an ID reaches maturity they then need less food very often they have been able to eat loads of forage suddenly almost without you noticing they start gaining weight it sneaks on .
Many horses just don’t do enough hard graft for the way we keep them .
I would rather have a poor doer than a good one it relentless dedication trying to keep this lot slim enough.

There does seem to be a fairly widespread belief now that any food restriction is bad for horses, but as you say there are some that can't cope with ad lib food as they won't stop eating. I had a horse 10yrs ago who I think may have had some sort of Equine eating disorder- as long as there was food available he just couldn't stop eating. On the rare occasion he escaped into the longer grass he would look like he wanted to vomit by the time I found him. When I did a student placement with a vet practice I saw surgery carried out on a shetland who had gorged so badly that he caused a rupture in his stomach wall.

Recently an acquaintance asked for advice on reducing the weight of their VERY obese native-type. She wouldn't reduce feed quantities (I have never known a horse be given so much) so I suggested substituting some of it for plain straw chaff- she called me cruel, and 'explained' to me that it is abuse to restrict either the type or quantity that a horse is allowed to eat! As he is out of work I'm not sure exactly how she thinks he will loose any weight without altering his diet.

I work in paediatrics and we are up front in talking to parents about their children's weight (in a none- inflammatory way, and not in front of the children) as obesity is now causing a HUGE amount of serious medical conditions in children. I am really surprised by how many parents seem to think that it isn't their responsibility; they either think it is up to the child to loose weight (we see them from NNU up so most of them aren't making their own meals!), or that the child is just 'like that'- or they ask us for drugs or surgery for the child to fix it. There has been so much talk about the dangers of obesity and the importance of healthy eating and exercise so I don't understand how parents can think their child's weight is nothing to do with them, but I think there are now more animal owners who are like that about their animals too.

I think there are a surprising number of e.g. dog owners who think if they see for example a couple of very fat labradors (just an example, applies to any breed) then it's ok if theirs is fat because it's the breed, therefore not the owners responsibility. As a society are we just creating a load of adults who don't think they have to take responsibility for the things in their life? Or are people just selfish or lazy when it comes to doing anything 'difficult', like putting your horse on an appropriate diet?

I don't understand why chronic obesity in animals isn't seen as more overtly cruel- they don't feed themselves, it is the owners' responsibility.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Getting old disgracefully
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
28,462
Location
Pootling around......
Visit site
I keep seeing Fell ponies on FB being praised for filling out when they are just pig fat.
This is why, a, I no longer show, b, I took myself off all the panels and c, on the rare occasion I do a breed whp class (for fun?), I get told I need 'more topline'by someone who might produce Smithfield market rippling animals.....
 

SilverLinings

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2017
Messages
2,423
Visit site
This is why, a, I no longer show, b, I took myself off all the panels and c, on the rare occasion I do a breed whp class (for fun?), I get told I need 'more topline'by someone who might produce Smithfield market rippling animals.....

Maybe showing classes should be divided into 'store horse' classes and 'fatstock' classes, rather than things like 'lightweight hunter' and heavyweight hunter' ?
 

Wishfilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 March 2016
Messages
2,715
Visit site
Whilst I agree that showing isn't the sole problem, and there are plenty of fat horses who never see a show ring, I think when you see very fat horses on social media winning classes, it can create a perception that is how the breed is supposed to look. It certainly doesn't help, anyway!

FWIW, I do agree there has to be a balance between the adlib forage/out 24/7 natural lifestyle and keeping weight down- I do think controlling grass intake especially can have a big impact on weight management!
 

scats

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2007
Messages
10,436
Location
Wherever it is I’ll be limping
Visit site
I do think that highlighting the issue of gastric ulcers in horses has probably played a role. I know a friend of mine now admits that she was so paranoid about ulcers that she gave her cob ad lib hay without really considering the consequences of ad lib when the quality of the forage is good.

I have a horse who is overweight. I hold my hand up. It’s a constant battle. She works 6 days a week, grazes a bald field and wears a muzzle in spring and summer, is fed weighed, soaked hay when she is in and just gets a balancer. It’s a constant stress and worry, but I am trying my best and I know she is too fat.
My other mare, once you soak hay and stick a muzzle on her, drops it far easier, despite not being able to do much work. She certainly doesn’t do anywhere near the work that my other horse does.
 

SilverLinings

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2017
Messages
2,423
Visit site
I do think that highlighting the issue of gastric ulcers in horses has probably played a role. I know a friend of mine now admits that she was so paranoid about ulcers that she gave her cob ad lib hay without really considering the consequences of ad lib when the quality of the forage is good.

I have a horse who is overweight. I hold my hand up. It’s a constant battle. She works 6 days a week, grazes a bald field and wears a muzzle in spring and summer, is fed weighed, soaked hay when she is in and just gets a balancer. It’s a constant stress and worry, but I am trying my best and I know she is too fat.
My other mare, once you soak hay and stick a muzzle on her, drops it far easier, despite not being able to do much work. She certainly doesn’t do anywhere near the work that my other horse does.

It is difficult for owners to assess the risk of ulcers versus the risk of laminitis, but some seem to be completely dismissing the laminitis risk.

It sounds as though you are trying hard to keep control over your mare's weight, which is commendable and far more than many people appear to do, they just shrug their shoulders about it as long as the horse stays sound (or appears to them to be sound).

I currently have Connemaras who need their weight watching year round, and one in particular as he has EMS. I am no stranger to muzzles, feeding straw, lunging and riding in the rain to make sure they get exercise, and spending hours erecting escape-proof restricted grazing paddocks. I know how hard it is, but I couldn't bear to see a horse of mine ill with a problem I could have prevented (Scats you sound the same). I don't think my horses 'love' me any less because I restrict their food though, but I think some owners confuse neighing at the sound of food with a display of affection for the owner ?‍♀️
 

MotherOfChickens

MotherDucker
Joined
3 May 2007
Messages
16,641
Location
Weathertop
Visit site
I keep seeing Fell ponies on FB being praised for filling out when they are just pig fat.

god yes, I have to just ignore-I mean, I have a fat Fell but at least I recognise he is fat! these people have no idea what they are doing to that pony long term and how difficult it will make their management when the are older.
 

MotherOfChickens

MotherDucker
Joined
3 May 2007
Messages
16,641
Location
Weathertop
Visit site
Although I will add that if I graze the Fell on a stressed paddock, through it being overgrazed or through parched grass, he piles on weight-he is better moving around on longer grass and muzzled. I am trying hard this year to not muzzle by managing my grazing somewhat differently and by using grass free turnout as well as more exercise.
 

bouncing_ball

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 October 2012
Messages
1,521
Visit site
I do think that highlighting the issue of gastric ulcers in horses has probably played a role. I know a friend of mine now admits that she was so paranoid about ulcers that she gave her cob ad lib hay without really considering the consequences of ad lib when the quality of the forage is good.

I have a horse who is overweight. I hold my hand up. It’s a constant battle. She works 6 days a week, grazes a bald field and wears a muzzle in spring and summer, is fed weighed, soaked hay when she is in and just gets a balancer. It’s a constant stress and worry, but I am trying my best and I know she is too fat.
My other mare, once you soak hay and stick a muzzle on her, drops it far easier, despite not being able to do much work. She certainly doesn’t do anywhere near the work that my other horse does.

I have owned TB crosses / Warmbloods and I’ve never really had to restrict hay / grass. Though I do avoid really rich grass from a gut perspective.

I think I’ve muzzled two horses once for a 2 weeks or so when grass was too much in 20 years. But generally I need to feed hard feed, and adlib hay to maintain weight.

I do work my horses hard, travel and compete regularly etc.

I’ve never suffered having to restrict. But I’m sure my feeds bills are more painful.
 

palo1

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2012
Messages
6,256
Visit site
I think lots of things drive the issue because it’s not just showing .
When the vets worked out how to scope horses there’s was an emphasis on the 24/7 forage message this was music to many people ears in including my own I ended up with all my horses too fat .
The fact is that many many horses can’t eat forage 24/7 without becoming obese even when they are working our hunters still have their forage restricted and we don’t feed any quantity of hard food unless in exceptional circumstances.
I have to stand my horses in all day from mid May ( depends on the weather )or they would explode and they work.
I just don’t know how people keep their horses out all summer without disaster striking unless they are young growing horses .
The quality of the food is extremely high now a days but most horses don’t need masses of hard food , haylege is very nutritious even if it’s Timothy add add Lib haylege to a decent pasture mix and the horses are getting masses of high quality food my horses hunt on balancers and haylege the more they do the less we restrict the haylege .
I think it’s easy to miss when a young horse for example an ID reaches maturity they then need less food very often they have been able to eat loads of forage suddenly almost without you noticing they start gaining weight it sneaks on .
Many horses just don’t do enough hard graft for the way we keep them .
I would rather have a poor doer than a good one it relentless dedication trying to keep this lot slim enough.

Yes but people can use a muzzle or work their horses harder, or restrict grazing to small patches of well grown grass. It is very hard work to have a good doer over summer if they are not working hard and many people struggle to get enough work into some horses, nor do they use the winter to really slim them down. Some people genuinely prefer to see their horse fat than see the conformational or muscular issues too. People love a 'chunk'...:(
 

SO1

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 January 2008
Messages
6,687
Visit site
I think the problem with cobs is that they were not bred to be show ponies they were bred to pull caravans which is hard work and also to be tethered with no additional feed which is very far from the leisure or competition cob lifestyle and so it no wonder people are struggling with controlling weight.

The traditional cob as a show horse or pony is a fairly new class.

Alongside the horses have to have 24 hour access to forage otherwise they get uclers when most forage is now rye grass you will get fat ponies and horses especially if they are genetically predisposed to EMS. Most livery yards are not set up to easily accommodate a good doer and more people are wanting horses with draft or native blood to have a steadier ride.

I have a new forest and controlling his weight is a constant battle. It is very stressful. The low sugar hay and balancer are more expensive than the more nutritious rye hay and normal feeds, he has to wear a muzzle most of the year, have soaked hay and daily exercise and he still gets fat, he has been tested for EMS which thankfully he does not have he is just a very good doer. He has a full clip in the winter and normally only in 100gm rug unless it snows.
 

SEL

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 February 2016
Messages
12,306
Location
Buckinghamshire
Visit site
I've been guilty of overestimating the amount of hay they need and once the weight is on its so, so hard to shift. This year my hay is stalky and about 8% sugar which has made a huge difference to all of them. The farmer would like to sell me his gorgeously fine meadow hay but that's just not suitable for fatties - so baby cob is having that.

I had the Appy at the vets once and she popped on the weighbridge needing to lose about 50kg. Vet said it was hard to lecture owners when one of the HOYS show cobs was on the cover of H&H in reception making mine look slender.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
56,553
Visit site
Ad lib feed should mean the horse never has no food available to eat. That does not mean that the horse always has as much to eat as it wants.

Muzzles, small hole nets, unappetising feed, poor quality grass, all have a part to play in ad lib feeding.
.
 

scats

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2007
Messages
10,436
Location
Wherever it is I’ll be limping
Visit site
I have owned TB crosses / Warmbloods and I’ve never really had to restrict hay / grass. Though I do avoid really rich grass from a gut perspective.

I think I’ve muzzled two horses once for a 2 weeks or so when grass was too much in 20 years. But generally I need to feed hard feed, and adlib hay to maintain weight.

I do work my horses hard, travel and compete regularly etc.

I’ve never suffered having to restrict. But I’m sure my feeds bills are more painful.

We are on rye grass unfortunately. I never had any problems on our old yard, but then the horses spent 6 months a year stuck in stables.

I had a TB x at this new yard and he was absolutely fine, but these natives and native crosses are a nightmare on rye.
 

babymare

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 June 2008
Messages
4,081
Location
cheshire
Visit site
I don’t just think the issue is down to just over feeding but also over rugging. When i had my Sec d the only rug she wore was her fly sheet. The amount of comments I got about her being cold. She was retired and a good doer so winter was my friend ( of course if she had shown signs of being Cold I would have rugged her :) ). There is this push to believe thickier the rug the better for horse.
 

Cloball

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 October 2017
Messages
3,631
Visit site
I don’t just think the issue is down to just over feeding but also over rugging. When i had my Sec d the only rug she wore was her fly sheet. The amount of comments I got about her being cold. She was retired and a good doer so winter was my friend ( of course if she had shown signs of being Cold I would have rugged her :) ). There is this push to believe thickier the rug the better for horse.
I see so many natives and cob types near me in full necked rugs up until very recently even when the weather was lovely.
 

Squeak

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 April 2009
Messages
3,712
Visit site
At the end of this winter my horse was on the lighter side but certainly not thin or a weight to be of concern especially considering it was just coming in to spring.

I had two equine professionals tell me how thin he was and make me feel incredibly guilty for his weight (this horse had a good shine on his coat etc etc.) and so checked with vet, three trainers and physio who all confirmed he was fine.

This is the real problem for me. I was made to feel terrible by these two people and when you have qualified equine professionals telling people with healthy horses that they're too thin and must have their feeds upped at the beginning of spring you've got no chance of educating the general horse owner.

I would really love to see showing crack down on this though. I think it does a lot of damage to see obese horses paraded and praised as correct.
 

Hormonal Filly

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 April 2013
Messages
3,222
Visit site
My friend did a veteran cob class last week, he’s 27 and in perfect condition. A lovely weight.

The winner of the class was a extremely obese horse, huge crest and fat pads all over it. Looked like laminitis ready to happen. Grrrrrr!

Judges still placing obese horses is the reason so many are allowed to get fat. :(
 

clinkerbuilt

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 June 2021
Messages
302
Visit site
A fat horse or pony is often easier also for novice riders to handle than a fit slim one.

In the case of a RS of my occasional acquaintance, I'm not sure this is always true: the barrel cobs with ad lib hay and substantial hard feed rations tend to feel backwards on the flat and charge-y over fences. Not so good for the novices.
 

Polos Mum

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 September 2012
Messages
5,931
Location
West Yorkshire
Visit site
Ad lib feed should mean the horse never has no food available to eat. That does not mean that the horse always has as much to eat as it wants.

Muzzles, small hole nets, unappetising feed, poor quality grass, all have a part to play in ad lib feeding.
.

This is my view, a section of straw in the bottom of the hay bar is mostly ignored - but it's there if they want to eat it (1 woofs it 1 will nibble and 2 ignore). So they have access to forage 100% of the time - they just choose not to eat my horse version of rice cake's

The other issue is the long grass has less sugar than short that is spouted about. Yes, that is absolutely true, but they can shovel in a lot more long grass than short so volume of sugar consumed per hour is far higher on long vs. short grass. A useful vet obesity lecture I went to said you should use scissors and a carrier bag to test for yourself how much you can fill the bag in 10 minutes on long vs. short grass.

People take 2 out of 4 facts and focus on those only - not the whole picture - or indeed what the horse in front of them looks like.
 

Fjord

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2009
Messages
2,085
Visit site
The other issue is the long grass has less sugar than short that is spouted about. Yes, that is absolutely true, but they can shovel in a lot more long grass than short so volume of sugar consumed per hour is far higher on long vs. short grass. A useful vet obesity lecture I went to said you should use scissors and a carrier bag to test for yourself how much you can fill the bag in 10 minutes on long vs. short grass.

Exactly this!! My mare is on a small, really short grassed 'track'. People say that the short grass is stressed and full of sugar, but she can only get millimetres at a time. If she was in long grass she'd explode, she would get more in one mouthful than in half an hour on the short stuff.

It's hard when you don't have your own land. Ideally I'd have a large bare track but a lot of places don't like you doing that, so you have to work with what you have. Having to feed soaked hay all summer costs a fortune but there's no other option if I don't want Bobbi to revert back to the Blobbi that I purchased.

I keep a picture of her when I first tried her. It was mid-winter and she'd been out of work for a while. She looked like a hairy hippo, she was enormous. It's a reminder of why I'm so strict now.
 

Maryann

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2013
Messages
268
Visit site
My 15hh conn/T.B. was fat scored and weighed at the BHS stand at Arena UK recently by a lovely woman who very carefully kept everything objective and non-judgemental. She gave hin 3.5 for the front end and 2.5 for the back end. My vet and farrier tell me he is fine at the weight he is but should not be any heavier. I am old, have had horses a long time and I trust these people.
I have had (unsolicited) advice from a qualified physiotherapist and several instructors to the effect that he needs more condition for his general health and fitness. Lovely people and knowledgeable in their fields but there is no mystery as to why people overfeed their horses.
 

SEL

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 February 2016
Messages
12,306
Location
Buckinghamshire
Visit site
The other issue is the long grass has less sugar than short that is spouted about. Yes, that is absolutely true, but they can shovel in a lot more long grass than short so volume of sugar consumed per hour is far higher on long vs. short grass. A useful vet obesity lecture I went to said you should use scissors and a carrier bag to test for yourself how much you can fill the bag in 10 minutes on long vs. short grass.

That statement drives me up the wall! If you turn my metabolic one out on long lush grass she'd have a party - and a vet bill.

Its bandied around on a lot of the field maintenance sites as well. I'm sure moving horses from one lush field to the next week after week is better for the land but it really isn't helpful for horses designed to live on poor quality grass and roam miles to get it.
 

bouncing_ball

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 October 2012
Messages
1,521
Visit site
It is a minefield. I’ve a big horse who can be a little hard to keep condition on. A few weeks ago my very experienced horse person saddler said my horse and my friend’s horse were a bit too thin. Same day our equally experienced physio said were perfect weight.

If I travel my horse a 4 hour round trip to compete, he does look lighter the next day or too but bounces back.

IME horses can be misleading as stress / travel / competition can result in short term dropping of 50-75kg IME.
 

SatansLittleHelper

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2011
Messages
5,749
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I completely agree with most of the sentiments on here but there can also be another issue. While I totally agree that we owners need to be aware of our horse's weights etc it can be very difficult when you are using other people's land. My horses are on land that the owner lives on site of, my friend and I are the only liveries. Horses are out 24/7 but the Owner doesn't want us messing with tracks and strip grazing and so on so we have little control over what they get. It's only 4-5 acres in total for 2 big horses, a 14hh young cob and a Shitland though so they keep the grass pretty low. That said, we have never had issues with laminitis etc and have been there 10 years now. We do allow them to drop weight considerably over the winter though and avoid rugging where possible.
 
Top