'Fat' Veteran... Such a bad thing?

Buds_mum

Buds_mum

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So i'm more of a lurker than a poster, but having a scan of a previous thread it got me thinking. Personally I would 100% prefer to have my old lad on the side of good than poor. What is everyone else's opnions?
My horse is 27, tbXconnie and lives out 24/7 with 7 others, ab lib hay as not out in the summer feilds yet. No hard feed, no rugs unless its minus or very wet and cold... Personally I would worry if at 27 he started to drop condition, and I certainly wouln't muzzle him or restrict his diet... Unless he suddenly got hugemongous!

I know that overweight horses are not healthy, but there is a line and i'm happy for him to be abit tubby, as it is I can feel his ribs with slight pressure and am really happy with how he has come out of winter! Welcome to constructive crit though :p

Is it just me who think people get slightly over the top at keeping horse's spot on, its all in context! Would you panic over you retiree's figure?
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I agree, he looks great for his age! What lovely land he's on too :)

Just as an aside what type of dog is in the background - is it a rottie?
 
Traditionally I think we liked to see oldies well covered, but I have had a change of heart. We have an old boy at the yard and when the vet cam out a month or so ago she was saying what super condition he is in but I actually think he's too fat and was exasperated at the vet recommending the owner keep shovelling food in him. I have ruthlessly made her reduce his feed significantly so he really just has supplements, chaff and forage.

I had a lovely little mare with cushings and ensure oldies are as slim as possible. Difficult with my current horses it must be said!!
 
I can't load the photos on my phone but there's a difference between being slightly one way or the other and too far.far too many owners of all animals love them by feeding them. Overweight can actually do more damage long term than underweight.
However each animal is an individual and an older horse with no lami history who is a poor doer I would probably keep on the heavier side of perfect than the lighter....

Pan
 
My 26 year old has come out of winter fatter than when he went in...he's lived out and now he's having to come in at nights to get him off the grass a bit. What grass he is on is restricted :/
 
I prefer the oldies to be well covered.

p.s Cushing's sufferers aren't always fat, some of them really struggle to maintain condition.
 
I still like to keep my old girl at the right weight, since she still is hacked out 3 or 4 times a week I would not like too much extra weight on her joints. She has no visable stiffness yet, although I always lead her for 10 mins to warm her up before mounting. Not sure if this helps but its something I have done for the last few years with her, here she is aged 23 to 28 not sure of exact age.
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sonjafoers said:
I agree, he looks great for his age! What lovely land he's on too :)

Just as an aside what type of dog is in the background - is it a rottie?
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Noo he's a very oversized cocker spaniel! :D Andyes he says he is very lovely ;) retirement suits him!

Pan yes I can see where your coming from, guessing i'm very lucky with his type and not having to have dealt with an older horse with lami/cushings
 
Cool my veteran is also a connie x tb and he is 22 years old and well covered too.

Infact he and your horse could be cousins !

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I think keeping them at the right weight is the correct thing to do. Extra weight will put a strain on joints that really don't need it IMO, and is therefore just as bad as a horse being too thin...

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Skinny TB- he was poor when we got him, and it took nearly a year to get him looking like this- he's 27 here, and in full work doing all RC/ PC activities.

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In contrast, here's a cob x who is only a happy hacker/ companion and is limited to walking/ gentle trotting. He's a natural fatty, and is at his fattest here- it's mid summer, and he was on good grass doing no work! A week or two on more restricted grazing (as shown here) and soaked hay meant he lost his excess pounds quickly.

Why have a fat horse when you can have a normal one?! Going into winter, we'd try and have Cheeky a little bit more towards the chubby side of things but never so much as to be fat.
 
I think much depends on what you call 'poor' and 'good'. Healthy weight-range is between a condition score of 2.5 and 3 on a 1-5 scale. Whilst most people are happy if their horse is a 3, a lot of people will worry that their horse is too 'lean' or 'poor' when at a 2.5 (when you might see the hint of a rib), even though vets deem that a healthy weight.

Likewise, there are people that think their horse is in 'good' condition at condition scores of 3.5 and above, when research has indicated that long-term condition scores above 3.5 significantly increase the risk of insulin resistance/laminitis, just as long term obesity increases the risk of type 2 diabetes in humans.

So personally, I would prefer a veteran to be a score of 3, but if I had to err either way I would prefer them to be a 2.5 rather than a 3.5!

That said, it can be hard to keep horses constantly spot-on their perfect condition, but if your horse gets slightly too thin or slightly too fat at times, the important point is to recognise it and takes steps to rectify it, rather than just think "oh its fine if he is a bit tubby" etc.
 
Crikey, your boy is the spit of mine who is also a grey tb x connie! However my chap is only 14 but hope he looks as good as your's when he reaches 27 :-)

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I've got a conniextb too, but I like oldies to be slim this time of year. Mines 23, & i've always wintered off, even when competing in our glory days lol. Like to have just visible ribs around now with ad lib hay over winter, then I don't have to restrict grass in summer, usually on the chunky side by the start of winter. It would actually concern me more to have an oldie fat than a youngster, more strain on the legs & increased risk of arthritic symptoms.
 
Some horses are difficult to keep spot on, but the reality is that horses (any animals really, including people!) are healthier when a bit under rather than a bit over weight. There is loads of research to show this, but unfortunately I don't know any of the sources off hand. It is also better for older joints not to have to carry too much weight. At the end of the day though it is the owner's decision how to keep their horse and as long as they are neither emaciated nor obese I would not say anything.
 
Yes is a bad thing. The only thing is since mine stopped working and his muscle has gone he has changed shape, and I cant decide if he is fat or just the muscle gone southwards!

Mine is heavy cob and arthritic so I try to keep him as normal weight as possible to ease strain on his joints.

But I can understand them being a bit spoilt (she contradicts herself)!!
 
I'm not so worried about mine being a bit over the 'good' scale of weight, than the high sugar content of grass in Spring and Autumn that can spark Laminitis. So during that time I restrict grass - lots of space but poor grazing better than small space and good grazing - and also add lib hay (low in sugars).
 
TGM said:
I think much depends on what you call 'poor' and 'good'. Healthy weight-range is between a condition score of 2.5 and 3 on a 1-5 scale. Whilst most people are happy if their horse is a 3, a lot of people will worry that their horse is too 'lean' or 'poor' when at a 2.5 (when you might see the hint of a rib), even though vets deem that a healthy weight.

Likewise, there are people that think their horse is in 'good' condition at condition scores of 3.5 and above, when research has indicated that long-term condition scores above 3.5 significantly increase the risk of insulin resistance/laminitis, just as long term obesity increases the risk of type 2 diabetes in humans.

So personally, I would prefer a veteran to be a score of 3, but if I had to err either way I would prefer them to be a 2.5 rather than a 3.5!

That said, it can be hard to keep horses constantly spot-on their perfect condition, but if your horse gets slightly too thin or slightly too fat at times, the important point is to recognise it and takes steps to rectify it, rather than just think "oh its fine if he is a bit tubby" etc.
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Excellent post.

Considering that most oldies are going to have some arthritic changes, I can say that personally, yes - I would rather have an oldie leaner, rather then overweight.
 
I personally think that this is one of those questions where there is no definitive answer. I've had oldies in the past that needed to go into winter slightly over weight as just the sight of the TO rug was enough to have them drop weight!
I also had oldies who I've kept lean due to arthritic changes.

I suppose the actual answer to this question is that I would hope that the owner knew their horse well enough to decide if it needed the weight?
 
I manage a retirement home so have experience of all shapes and sizes of oldies.
You have to be careful not to allow obesity especially in geldings as a common cause of colic is pedunculated lipomas which may entwine around intestine causing a strangulation obstruction. I keep telling my owners it is dangerous to have veterans obese!
Also if they are too fat they could become insulin resistant and develop cushings , I think your horse is a good weight so don't panic ! But keep an eye out for the tell tale obesity signs eg; fat around base of tail, shoulder, crest or keep a condition score.
Keep up the good work your horse looks very content in his twilight years!
 
If they can't carry a rider any more, why make them carry extra weight through being fat? Seems a bit mean to me. Being at a healthy weight makes life more comfortable for people - horses are no different, even if they're just ambling round a field.
 
I have a veteran who is kept 'thin' over winter. He lives out due to arthritis, and reacts to the spring grass, so keeping him trim over winter prevents lami.

I often get the impression that some people let their oldies get fat because they feel they 'deserve' it in old age when in reality in old age they deserve the very best of management. They're more prone to lami, cushings etc so allowing them further risk of those problems, just because you want to 'reward' them for years of service, is bordering neglectful - in my opinion.
 
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