Fed up and Thinking of Going Barefoot

ElectricChampagne

ElectricChampagne

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I was having a chat with a friend of mine recently whom is a farrier, but not the one working on my yard. He has seen both horses feet and we had a chat about going barefoot. Current farrier is leaving them far too long and very uneven which is making me feel on the forehand and tipped forward. they look like they need doing again after only 2 weeks. He has said both mine have very good feet.

So he suggested going barefoot as I don't do any roadwork and all they mainly do is arena and field. I don't get to compete much as I had to sell my jeep because it kept breaking, but if I did it would be low level dressage and jumping, no higher than 90cm.

Am I mad to even consider this?
 
Not mad, and to add mine has hunted, evented (only 80cm but thats due to dressage being our main discipline), show jumped (around the 90cm mark again only this height due to it not being our main focus), does dressage (currently competing medium, training higher) and hacks over every sort of terrain (including lots of road work).

Good feet with the correct diet, and building up any new work slowly, you shouldn't need shoes.

Even my oldie, with Cushings, who could never ever go barefoot in front (as told by vet and farrier) is now sound and hacking (still needs boots over very stony ground but otherwise ok).

I much prefer mine being bare now as it gives me an early warning indicator when their feet aren't right (Doodle gets more footy if her ACTH levels are raised), Skylla felt very slightly off before her abscess started (which I think would have been masked by shoes), etc. Plus as I am not going round badminton or doing any serious jumping on grass studs are not needed :).
 
Ah great news! this is exactly the type of stories I like to hear, and my friend did say the same to me about a few of the horses he trims for.

Are there anythings I need to look out for before I try?

one horse is pigeon toed and I've had nightmare after nightmare getting anyone to shoe him properly at all. He's been vet checked and had various lameness workups done and vets are amazed at how sound he is considering! Still I don't push him hard, and he does love to jump, again with no issues and he's only turned from his fetlocks.

I'm currently researching diets, but they both have hay ad lib, and are turned out most of the day. my mare is on coarse mix with rapeseed oil and I add seaweed to her feed.
The gelding is on beet pulp (no molasses variety) and a bit of alfa alfa and has brewers yeast, rapeseed oil and he's on hilton herbs gastrix as well as some seaweed.

I don't jump on grass as I'm not a fan of it to be honest but mainly would be working in arenas.

So would I need to do anything to their hooves in between a farrier visit? Someone suggested getting a riders rasp so I could roll the toe myself. My farrier friend even said he will show me how to rasp their feet with a farrier's rasp, but I would be nervous of doing damage. at least the riders rasp or a radius rasp might be a bit safer.
 
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I think if the feet look healthy enough (no under-run heels and theres a decent amount of digital cushion at the heel) and there's no under-lying metabolic issues then you should be fine, just build up work slowly and adjust to how the horse is coping.

Topaz walked out of shoes without a second glance, we had zero footiness on any terrain, however the hunt ride (6 weeks after taking the shoes off) did bruise her feet so we are a little more cautious now about proper conditioning to the task being asked of them.

Diet is as simple as low sugar and starch, high fibre. Just what horses 'should' be eating.

Depending on the horse and how healthy their metabolic situation is and also their work load, you may find you can feed some unexpected feeds with little issue. Again Topaz has been feed high sugar feeds in the past (she was a skinny wee thing when we first got her so had a bog standard mix with molasses in, along with a molassed chop, didn't know sugar was bad back then :o), never bothered her feet health. My oldie we are very strict with but she is in less work and we know has metabolic issues (Cushings).

They are fed, Alpha A molasses free, grass nuts and linseed depending on the time of year and weight (Topaz never needs a lot ;)), Doodle also gets rolled oats if she's dropping weight on the above.

I too am afraid to do any rasping :o, the two younger horses pretty much self trim anyway due to the road work they do, and Doodle's feet I leave to the trimmer as she is sound I don't want to mess that up :o (trimmer does want me to start doing a little rasping).

Not sure on the pigeon toed and affecting the feet, Doodle has medio-lateral imbalance (part of the reason giving for her not being able to go bare) but her feet have grown to compensate so we've not had any issues with this (*touches all available wood).
 
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I have used my riders rasp a few times especially this summer to make his feet look neater, but I'd say less than 10 strokes on his feet. Realistically they didn't need it lol. He hasn't had a proper trim since his last pair of shoes went on in front last December.

My helpful farrier told me to keep my riders rasp for grating cheese (after I said it looked like a cheese grater) and he basically told me to keep away from my horses feet. I avoid the farrier now, and have had a trimmer out once who didn't actually touch his feet :)
 
Thanks so much for the feedback, its brilliant to read. Really appreciate you all taking the time to come back with your experiences.

I think I will give them a go. I don't do a whole lot of roadwork, I usually ride on my own and the only hacking in the area is roads, which I am not really comfortable to go out on, and rather than a circular route to follow, I have to turn round and go back after 20 mins or so, which I hate doing so I usually don't bother. They both don't do a huge amount, ridden in an arena 3-4 times a week for 40 minutes each time or so, and out grass all day.


I'm trying to limit sugars already, especially as the pigeon toe'd fella has suspected ulcers, so no grain and lots of hay for him, and the mare is an easy keeper, so she doesn't get much.
 
I have two barefoot now. One an oldie who couldn't hold shoes on a few years ago so I took them off for the winter to let them recover and they never got put back on. His feet improved but are still not as good as I'd like. He can do rides up to about an hour on the roads barefoot but I use boots on him normally and that works fine and I trim them myself. The other is a youngster who has never been shod and whose feet are great. No amount of roadwork touches them and he copes with the worst stones without a problem. I just get a tidy up on him from the farrier as needed because they are so hard I can't trim them myself.
In your circumstance I see no reason why yours should need to be shod, if you have their shoes off and it doesn't work for you for some reason you can always get them back on or even get boots.
 
I took the plunge on 19 March. She wasn't sound when we started but trudging in-hand for miles over tarmac got her going. There were times I wanted to give up, but one day in June she wasn't lame any more. We're still trudging every morning, but out doing everything else in the evenings, including jumping on grass and not slipping. You are already addressing the diet issue, so for my tuppence worth:

In my opinion, miles of roadwork will initiate the self trimming and help the foot adapt more rapidly to being barefoot. Other surfaces will help stimulate the frog. If you need boots at first, don't worry. Movement is key. I just read that an absolute minimum of 12 miles per day of general is needed, with horses walking an average of 5 -7 grazing for 12 hours in a 1.5 - 2 acre paddock so we need to make up the difference.

You need patience in spades. It takes between 6 - 12 months to grow a new hoof capsule. For some, they might be footy for a lot of this time. Don't give up - when that first event line (the one that occurred when you took the shoes off) hits the floor you'll notice an incredible difference. Even if you had noticed one considerably earlier, this is the point you know you've landed.

And find a good trimmer/pro-barefoot farrier. I'm of the opinion that horses will grow the feet they need. If you're doing enough work, they will self trim and self-balance, even if it's the wonkiest looking foot in history for a while.

Everyone one here is both sensible and encouraging. And not in the least evangelical. If you need a vet, we'll say so. If you find it's not working for you, we won't hold it against you.
 
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Interesting, any info on horses out 24/7 and their daily mileage?

I would however be vigilant with wonky feet as they can point to issues with the horses action higher up. My horse had a flare for 2 years that I thought was self-adapting. Turns out he wasn't straight at all behond, and as soon as I started addressing the straightness issue that was now causing him to be on/off lame the flare broke off within a week. As a result he's now walking much better, looking better and happier as I had a new saddke fitted that may have caused many of my problems, despite being fitted by someone else.
 
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Thanks Gloi, on that note I do have a pair of front boots somewhere, I must pull them out and see if they fit, if not I'll sell them and buy a pair that do, theyre a good brand too apparently.

HH thanks so much that was an exceptional post, informative and very encouraging, I do feel currently my two don't really need shoes too, so that is so super. The farrier I spoke to is a good guy and made similar points to yours, so we are going to take the shoes off at the weekend, and keep an eye on them to see how they get on. I'll be doing less riding coming into the winter due to weather and work commitments. I'm dying for an indoor, instead of an arena on top of a hill.

SF, I'll keep a firm eye on the pigeon toes, we've already had lameness issues caused by uneven feet so it annoys me no end when I see any sort of issue crop up, and I'm watching them like a hawk already. If needs be I could go back to putting fronts on, but I do think a lot of the issues he has are due to farriers not knowing how to manage his funky feet.


I'll keep posting here so, its brilliant to hear its supportive, thanks again everyone.
 
ElectricChampagne said:
I'm currently researching diets, but they both have hay ad lib, and are turned out most of the day. my mare is on coarse mix with rapeseed oil and I add seaweed to her feed.
The gelding is on beet pulp (no molasses variety) and a bit of alfa alfa and has brewers yeast, rapeseed oil and he's on hilton herbs gastrix as well as some seaweed.
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I would probably stop the seaweed unless you are aware of an iodine deficiency. Have a read of this https://forageplus.co.uk/should-you-feed-your-horse-seaweed/. The ForagePlus website is a good read generally if you are looking into diets. The Pheonix Horse forum is also a good resource for diet tips, as well as lots of reviews on boots.

I've got a radius rasp and it is brilliant, I do actually have a standard farriers rasp too for if they have got a bit long but the radius one is much easier for a quick tidy up. Alternatively a bit of roadwork is a great way to give their hooves a trim.
 
I def think it can be important working out which wonkiness is necessary and what isn't helping, that's a good hoof pros job really and watching them move will help too. We have a helpful wonkiness behind - hock spavin. But his fronts flare and get long medially because he rolls off his toes laterally and if not kept in check that gets worse and worse and becomes a bit of a vicious cycle.

HH sums it up well as a relative newby ;) Just a note on the roadwork I understand your reservations but I would add that those I have known struggle with transition are those that don't do roadwork/do more school work/never really get that straight line mileage. My own well transitioned had to have some time off recently, I watched his feet visibly deteriorate, the more he does the better they are. He moved home to my Mum's recently and I said please do as much road work as you can (fairly easy round there, not much nice off road) and the difference in his feet in 2 weeks was incredible, in 4 they are back to their usual loveliness :D

Movement, patience, diet, patience, trim, patience. In that order.

Always here for advice/support/questions. There is usually a point it isn't plain sailing and mine has always had slightly flat fronts and will still be gimpy over some types of stoney surfaces but hunted bare quite happily ;).
When deshoeing it is best not to trim and let them have that extra height off the ground to start. It is also not unusual to hit the 6ish week point and they get a bit footy as the hoof seems to 'wake up' a bit. But if that happens there is no issue in booting for a while for most of the work (I kept up short bits of road work in hand too) until the soles have thickened etc. There is absolutely no reason for a horse to be hugely uncomfortable when transitioning.

May I suggest the FB group barefoot for whole horse health, and the phoenix forum http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/

I avoid all the other FB groups, they are populated by those a bit too evangelical for my likeing, and I am v. pro barefoot!
 
Thanks L_N - the seaweed is given in a far lower dosage than the recommendation for that reason, and they both seem to be doing ok on it, but again I do worry and have considered removing it altogether too before now.

ester, I do see your point about the roadwork, however the roads around the yard I am currently at are, well deplorable and very busy. Its quite close to a city so can be busy at times, and a lot of drivers don't have the cop on or respect for horses at all. I worked up the courage to go out a few weeks ago and one such driver came far too fast, slammed on the brakes as he thought he could pass me on a very narrow stretch and realised last minute he couldn't and kicked up a load of stones, which hit my horse and gave him a fright. Paired with the lack of a decent place to go and after 20 minutes I need to turn round and go back, I am very reluctant to hack out on those roads. There's no other hacking available in the area, so I feel its too dangerous as I have to hack out on the roads on my own.

I love my hacking so its really getting to me too.

Thanks for all the tips and I will check out the forums and groups!
 
HeresHoping said:
I took the plunge on 19 March. She wasn't sound when we started but trudging in-hand for miles over tarmac got her going. There were times I wanted to give up, but one day in June she wasn't lame any more. We're still trudging every morning, but out doing everything else in the evenings, including jumping on grass and not slipping. You are already addressing the diet issue, so for my tuppence worth:

In my opinion, miles of roadwork will initiate the self trimming and help the foot adapt more rapidly to being barefoot. Other surfaces will help stimulate the frog. If you need boots at first, don't worry. Movement is key. I just read that an absolute minimum of 12 miles per day of general is needed, with horses walking an average of 5 -7 grazing for 12 hours in a 1.5 - 2 acre paddock so we need to make up the difference.

You need patience in spades. It takes between 6 - 12 months to grow a new hoof capsule. For some, they might be footy for a lot of this time. Don't give up - when that first event line (the one that occurred when you took the shoes off) hits the floor you'll notice an incredible difference. Even if you had noticed one considerably earlier, this is the point you know you've landed.

And find a good trimmer/pro-barefoot farrier. I'm of the opinion that horses will grow the feet they need. If you're doing enough work, they will self trim and self-balance, even if it's the wonkiest looking foot in history for a while.

Everyone one here is both sensible and encouraging. And not in the least evangelical. If you need a vet, we'll say so. If you find it's not working for you, we won't hold it against you.
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I think you possibly gave me some great advise on a barefoot facebook page? Thank you again. I've actually left/ been removed from that particular page, I don think I was evangelical enough! If it was you I'm very glad to have found you on here as well :)
 
HeresHoping said:
It was me.

I wondered why you had gone grey. Did you mention the 's' word? You mustn't do that on there, you know. It gets you expunged.
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which is why I am not a member of those groups :p

ElectricChampagne said:
Thanks L_N - the seaweed is given in a far lower dosage than the recommendation for that reason, and they both seem to be doing ok on it, but again I do worry and have considered removing it altogether too before now.

ester, I do see your point about the roadwork, however the roads around the yard I am currently at are, well deplorable and very busy. Its quite close to a city so can be busy at times, and a lot of drivers don't have the cop on or respect for horses at all. I worked up the courage to go out a few weeks ago and one such driver came far too fast, slammed on the brakes as he thought he could pass me on a very narrow stretch and realised last minute he couldn't and kicked up a load of stones, which hit my horse and gave him a fright. Paired with the lack of a decent place to go and after 20 minutes I need to turn round and go back, I am very reluctant to hack out on those roads. There's no other hacking available in the area, so I feel its too dangerous as I have to hack out on the roads on my own.

I love my hacking so its really getting to me too.

Thanks for all the tips and I will check out the forums and groups!
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No I completely understand that it isn't possible for everyone to do that :), but it is something to keep in mind if things aren't going smoothly, it isn't always key but can be for some :). I tend to mention it because often people consider unshod because they aren't doing the roadwork whereas most of us who are barefoot would do lots of road walking when we can, it also helps stop the feet getting too long as you go along and saves me getting a rasp out. My chap's grow so bloody quick I trim every 2-3 weeks these days, I think wearing the hoof off is some sort of fallacy :D - tbf that is partly because of his uneven wear pattern though :)
 
HeresHoping said:
It was me.

I wondered why you had gone grey. Did you mention the 's' word? You mustn't do that on there, you know. It gets you expunged.
Click to expand...

Yes they booted me out. I was incredibly snappy yesterday (I know, shock horror, meeee???) and those militants where just really pushing my buttons. Honestly they drove me crazy, they are nuts!
 
My young mare is pigeon toed and barefoot. We've had one lameness episode through a strained medial collateral ligament in the fetlock (put her foot in a hole) and during the diagnostic process, both vet practices I saw (one B&W) were keen to keep her bare to minimise stress through her joints. I have a super farrier/barefoot trimmer (he's trained in both), who comes out every 2-3 months to check her balance & the tidying I do myself with a radius rasp. I do boot her to hack on roads or she wears down the outside of her foot too fast not to stress the ligaments, but otherwise she stays balanced in her feet nicely and is back to being rock crunching sound. I like barefoot for less than ideal conformation. Good luck to you.
 
ester said:
which is why I am not a member of those groups :p



No I completely understand that it isn't possible for everyone to do that :), but it is something to keep in mind if things aren't going smoothly, it isn't always key but can be for some :). I tend to mention it because often people consider unshod because they aren't doing the roadwork whereas most of us who are barefoot would do lots of road walking when we can, it also helps stop the feet getting too long as you go along and saves me getting a rasp out. My chap's grow so bloody quick I trim every 2-3 weeks these days, I think wearing the hoof off is some sort of fallacy :D - tbf that is partly because of his uneven wear pattern though :)
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Im in the same boat, total mind block on road work when in theory the most 'blind' part of the road bend we have to go round would last 30 seconds or even less if I jogged and made him trot it but in my head I am just freaking out about being on that damn corner ridden and especially inhand! :(
 
I wish round bad bends there could be a horse sign and as you go past it you can press a button to make it flash (like the cow crossing signs) for say 1 minute so that drivers know that there is a horse around the corner. I hate those corners, I trot and move out into the road so I'm more visible (depending on the bend!)
 
stencilface said:
I wish round bad bends there could be a horse sign and as you go past it you can press a button to make it flash (like the cow crossing signs) for say 1 minute so that drivers know that there is a horse around the corner. I hate those corners, I trot and move out into the road so I'm more visible (depending on the bend!)
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When I win the lottery, and have some money to invest, this is what I will do, along with trendy hi-viz jackets with 15 please on them. I'll dish them out for free. The light will flash red for horse on the bend (duration can be for the length of time the slowest horse will plod around the bend), and orange for when the horse is leaving the bend, so you are aware it's there.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I should find a venture capitalist.
 
stencilface said:
I wish round bad bends there could be a horse sign and as you go past it you can press a button to make it flash (like the cow crossing signs) for say 1 minute so that drivers know that there is a horse around the corner. I hate those corners, I trot and move out into the road so I'm more visible (depending on the bend!)
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it was a straight road so no excuse! :)

Anyway Its got me thinking, I might just have to incorporate a walk on the roads early on the weekends or something. with the evenings closing in by the time I get out of work its too dark (and scary toowith people driving home from work) anyway.
 
my cob went barefoot at this time last year. Best thing I could have done. Yesterday we hacked out for 3 hours over varied terrain. His hooves are in fabulous condition, I have a very good farrier who complements his good hoof quality. he only has them trimmed ever 3 months or so as they self trim with work.I just like a qualified professional to see then and tidy up if necessary. that said I only do the work that his feet can do, if I did more I'd need boots. He doesn't get any fancy supplements just grass hay and pony nuts. its been a revelation after 40 odd years of shoeing.
ETA hes pigeon toed and is much much better without shoes, wears the hoof more evenly now they are shorter, rather than off to one side.
 
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I've got 2 without shoes. One has never had them and I think every farrier in the area would run for cover if I ever suggested hot shoeing her and the other is terrified of smoke so once his shoes were off (previous owner) they have never gone back on. The one who has never had shoes on has great feet and if she's ever in the slightest bit footy then I know something is up. She has quite a pronounced flare on one hind which seems to be as a result of stiffness behind which I am trying to sort with physio and body worker. We know there is an underlying issue so it will be interesting to see whether that flare reduces in time.

What I find really interesting is both of mine have ENORMOUS frogs! When I pick out shod feet now I think how tiny the frogs look. Plus since I had to address the diet for non-feet reasons we don't have any significant event lines on their feet either.

Both of mine had farrier 'issues' when they came to me so I have done rasping and a bit of trimming for training purposes. My mare managed to knock a bit chunk out of her hoof a few weeks ago and I was pretty impressed that she allowed me to plonk her foot on the hoof stand and cut off the loose bit and rasp around so it looked tidier. Its a killer on your lower back though and I'd much rather pay the experts!
 
Downton Dame said:
ETA hes pigeon toed and is much much better without shoes, wears the hoof more evenly now they are shorter, rather than off to one side.
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Excellent news! This is what I was hoping to hear. thanks so much for sharing. I have the same issue with the off to one side thing too.

SEL said:
What I find really interesting is both of mine have ENORMOUS frogs! When I pick out shod feet now I think how tiny the frogs look. Plus since I had to address the diet for non-feet reasons we don't have any significant event lines on their feet either.
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my farrier friend did say that actually, and considering the frog is to help with circulation I think thats a good thing :)
 
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SEL having had the flare on my horses hoof through quite a lot of physio and vet visits, I would say get some in hand lessons with someone who can help your horse walk straight. Video them in slow motion from every angle, then work the bits they don't want to. My horse is lame on trot of I just get on and kick, atm I have you make sure he's using himself properly before we do anything
I start off in hand then get on.

Now we have an arena (yay!) I'm enjoying how lovely and smoothly polished his toes get from the sand lol
 
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