Fed up of selling my horse!

[SO1]

This horse cannot be a confidence giver all rounder if it naps in the start box and also is not reliable to hack out alone. For someone who is nervous this may be frightening behaviour and if it requires positive riding this behaviour may get worse with someone who is not confident to deal with.

The horse has not competed for a while and appears to have had a medical problem - will she pass a vetting and how will a potential purchaser know after the medical issues if the horse will return to how it was before?

If she is a good hunter and you think physically she will withstand the level of work to hunt again I would advertise her as hunter as then the napping may not be such a big issue as she would mainly be jumping in company unless of course they wanted to hack out alone.

It is a lot of money for a horse that has been out of competitive work for a year and has had medical issues. For start a potential buyer for that money is probably going to want to try her over fences and if she only been hacking is going to be fit enough to be jumped at a decent height for viewings?

 

[Goldenstar]

I have to agree with the napping in the start box .
If a novicey friend wanting a fun low level horse was looking a horse and told me it did that I would tell her to look for another it's a confidence sapping thing for a horse to do with people who ride at a low level for fun.
OP what are her manners like out hunting if she's a really good hunter mannerly straightforward and snaffle mouthed who you can ride all day without being exhausted why don't you market her as a safe hunter a little later in the summer .

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I'm looking at the moment and must admit I skipped past your ad when I saw she naps as I've just sold my boy who naps, not because I wasn't capable of riding him but as it was a pain in the backside to keep having battles when I do the majority of hacking alone.

Now knowing her medical history I would wonder if the napping was linked to pain and realistically would wonder whether she'd be up to the level of work I'd want her for given she's been in a happy hack home for the past year. I've recently had an hour long chat about a horse that on paper sounded ideal...but that they slipped in on the call had had many soundness issues and may not pass a vetting. I felt pretty miffed that they wasted my time and in turn that I wasted theirs when had they mentioned the issues in the ad I'd have never picked up the phone in the first place. Therefore it's likely to be less frustrating all round if you mention said issues in the ad to start with, though I suspect you may need to reconsider the price to be a little more realistic.

 

[xspiralx]

Honestly I think to justify the price you would need to have her back in full work to ensure she will stand up to it and also make sure the napping issues were definitely resolved.

Otherwise it is taking a bit of a gamble for people and for that price, particularly given the market you're aiming her at, I think you might struggle.

 

[ponyforever]

Hi
I am currently looking, and I am in Hampshire. I thought Pip looked lovely and I very nearly phoned the day the advert went live, however, I was put off because you said she isn't fully fit.

I think it would be better if you spent a month getting her jumping fit, so she is ready to get out competing in her new home. I was immediately suspicious that she wasn't fit because she had suffered some sort of injury. It would be much better if she was fit and potential purchasers could be emailed a video of her out competing this year, instead of relying on photos from a few years back.

I also always google the seller's name and phone number, which potential purchasers can see on Horse and Hound adverts. The biggest turn off for me was finding a video called 'Naughty Pip' on your youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP3ySwEyVYw - it is 3 years old, so you probably forgot it was there but for potential purchasers like me, it is the sort of video we don't want to see.

Best of luck with the sale, she looks lovely and I think you should get her fit and out competing and have some recent videos on youtube.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

OP, am also looking, but also did same internet search as ponyforever.
Am totally not interested in a napper, where-ever it happens to specifically nap, be it start box or on own out hacking.

Sorry, but a napper that is not fit to go out to do a job on the next weekend kills it for me at that price, also what I want has to hack on its own without napping - like most people want (yes, I can more than cope with quirks, but not learned or pain evasions)

 

[Red-1]

Crikey ponyforever, I had a look and it would certainly put me off.

Actually I would be even more out off by the "Pip's Blips" video, which is a compilation of Pip napping, rearing, bucking, spinning and refusing fences, on a variety of occasions, in a variety of different paces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFT7zxMljFg

I too would say that with this history it would be best to get her fit and competing to ensure you can have new videos to balance out the old ones. I too would suspect a physical issue with this history (ie napping as above, then a year with no competition, then for sale, advertised as not fit.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Crikey ponyforever, I had a look and it would certainly put me off.

Actually I would be even more out off by the "Pip's Blips" video, which is a compilation of Pip napping, rearing, bucking, spinning and refusing fences, on a variety of occasions, in a variety of different paces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFT7zxMljFg

.

I saw that one too

OP, pull ALL your past vids, get her fit and then readvertise at a realistic price for what she can do then

 

[Clodagh]

I always tell my children anything you post can come back and bite you on the ass. Those videos prove it! Oops.

 

[Leo Walker]

Lock down your FB profile as well. The ad on there for loan is public and while its no doubt totally genuine, it just adds another query about why she couldnt find a loan home.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Unfortunately this thread and others about her are going to pose a problem. The YouTube vids are at least deletable but they've been discussed on here now. You will need to be really careful to disclose everything because otherwise it's on here in black and white and the videos are burned into the memories of many of us. If my friend bought her I would recognise her and say what I knew, after all, if they had any issues with her. There must be loads of people who "know" her that's the thing with posting about a recognisable horse you later want to sell.

Really she needs to be out doing what you say she can do, with the rider you say she is suitable for to get her sold.

 

[LeannePip]

Wow, lots of come back, i do appreciate all of the constructive feed back and i do agree with a lot of what has been said, however i really am just trying to find her a good home and not deceive any one or flog a dead horse which is why i put the napping in the advert, maybe its too honest? as genuinely for the last year and more, it hasn't been a huge deal, its not nasty or dangerous even when she did do anything, its more just like the hand break is stuck on for a while. It seems i cannot win either way, its not a problem at the moment so i don't put it in the ad only to upset people when they call or god forbid they get her home and she starts it again. Or i mention it and it comes across as a huge issue which it really isn't?

Since she's been back with me the last couple of weeks she has been 100% hacking and schooling on her own, my nervous mum has had lessons on her, jumped her in the school and took her to a mini XC last week and she flew round twice with no issues at all! For me she has always been a huge confidence giving horse which is why i have marketed her as one, she alone has given me confidence to go out and do everything and anything.

I've not sold before and both of my horses have come through people i know, i've never been properly looking for a horse so price wise i asked people around (liveries/ instructors/ yard owners) what they thought, who know her for her good points and bad and this is what came back. I then did some research on for sale sites for horses of her level/ standard without napping issues and listed medical history and their prices were generally about £7/8k for a smart riding club horse so figured £4250kono was a good ball park place to start. Funnily enough the only person who i've spoken to or had view that quibbled the price was the one who told me straight out they'd pay £2750! Also looking at the other ads; barely any mentioned anything vaguely negative about the horse and i'm finding it so hard to believe that none of them have ever had issues that have been resolved vet or behavioural, is this something that should tar them forever? Not because i want to hide anything but because i don't think it should detract from how she is now and can be?

I do appreciate the feed back and I'm going to spend some time re-writing the add and change pictures tonight.

I just wrote this because i had just had the same conversation on the phone consecutively with three people all asking questions which were answered in the advert . . .

 

[Bernster]

Hiya, I won't comment on the earlier stuff and I think you've taken it all very well. In terms of people asking about stuff already answered,they may have looked at various ads and forgotten some of the details, they might have a list of questions they are working through, or they might want to hear it from you and get you to expand. Just a thought, as it doesn't necessarily mean they are not genuine, albeit they are wasting your time, just not theirs, if you know what I mean!

 

[stormox]

People are going to ask questions anyway, even if stated in the advert- its not what you say but how you say it- and people will always think things are far worse than what you put in the ad- ie if you put 'slight tendon issue' they will assume its totally broken down. Also, Ive just looked at the video- if someone had told me she was a confidence giver, then Id seen "Aagh shes not afraid" - well I wouldnt be surprised to see it up on dodgy horse dealers FB page. That is really bad behaviour. Shes napping in the show jumping ring and dressage arena, not just on hacks and in the start box. She really wouldnt give a nervous rider much confidence, rather the opposite.
I think you should get her fit and competing again before you sell her, so buyers can see her out and about. Shes a nice mare and should sell, as long as she behaves and has no soundness issues.

 

[TGM]

Since she's been back with me the last couple of weeks she has been 100% hacking and schooling on her own, my nervous mum has had lessons on her, jumped her in the school and took her to a mini XC last week and she flew round twice with no issues at all!

So if she is doing all this now, get some videos (hacking out of the yard alone, jumping, schooling, XC etc) so you can show up-to-date videos to prospective buyers.

i'm finding it so hard to believe that none of them have ever had issues that have been resolved vet or behavioural, is this something that should tar them forever?

Only if their owners have written about all their issues on internet forums, and posted videos of them misbehaving online!

Seriously, though, if she had had issues a couple of years ago, but then had been seen out and about competing, hunting etc with no problems, then you would find it easier to sell her. Your situation is different, in that she has had problems and has not yet returned consistently to the level of work you are advertising her for. So you need to prove to buyers that she is a different horse now - take her out to some little competitions and get video and photographic evidence, get some good results that people can see online, that sort of thing.

 

[PolarSkye]

I saw that one too

OP, pull ALL your past vids, get her fit and then readvertise at a realistic price for what she can do then

Great advice. Horses change - they grow up, are schooled out of bad habits, etc. - Kali certainly did - but if I were the sort of prospective buyer you want for her and I came across that lot, I'd run a mile.

P

 

[WeeLassie]

I think you, having had the mare for 7 years, are so used to her and her rearing/napping that it iisn't a big deal for you. But you have to think, as you've advertised her as a 'confidence giver' 'fun horse' etc what a nervous novice would think if she did that with them. It would certainly be a 'big deal' .

 

[LeannePip]

That is really bad behaviour. Shes napping in the show jumping ring and dressage arena, not just on hacks and in the start box. She really wouldnt give a nervous rider much confidence, rather the opposite.
I think you should get her fit and competing again before you sell her, so buyers can see her out and about. Shes a nice mare and should sell, as long as she behaves and has no soundness issues.

Those videos are about 3/4 years old now, she was 4 or 5 there and yes she wasn't brilliant at that age but she's 8yo now so don't the horse i'm selling, i've taken the advise and taken them down but now at risk of looking like i'm hiding something!

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Having now seen the videos I would say unless she has vastly improved on the napping front, you've actually downplayed it in the advert.

My boy that I've recently sold is an allrounder with no known medical issues but has a tendency to nap and buck and I sold him for half what you're asking. I was incredibly honest about his good and bad points in the ad, so much so that the first girl who viewed him bought him. Perhaps I underpriced him but in all honesty I cared more about the home he went to than the money.

 

[Red-1]

Funnily enough the only person who i've spoken to or had view that quibbled the price was the one who told me straight out they'd pay £2750! Also looking at the other ads; barely any mentioned anything vaguely negative about the horse and i'm finding it so hard to believe that none of them have ever had issues that have been resolved vet or behavioural, is this something that should tar them forever? Not because i want to hide anything but because i don't think it should detract from how she is now and can be?

I just wrote this because i had just had the same conversation on the phone consecutively with three people all asking questions which were answered in the advert . . .

I think that as she stands the £2750 was a fair starting point. I guess they expected to be bartered up some from there. I do think if you get her out and about, some current form and videos, then she would be worth her asking price, as long as she behaves.

I don't think you are being too honest at all, in fact I would query her being a confidence giving ride, and that she only naps when leaving the yard alone, or in the XC box. The videos point the other way. As I said in my previous post, I would put current videos up, to balance the old ones. I would not delete the old ones, as that makes it look as if you are hiding something. If that was a phase she went through then it needs balancing with more recent ones, that is all.

As for the adverts and people calling, I always start with asking people to tell me about the horse. Written word is hard to decipher, and how my gut feeling reacts to the owner is important to me. I would like to hear it in your own words. I guess I also listen with a critical ear, to see if the story varies, it tickles my suspicions. There is a wise old saying "Always tell the truth as then you don't have to remember what you have said."

Not that I think you are lying about the horse, but it may explain why so many people would like to talk to you about what the advert says.

 

[LeannePip]

I think you, having had the mare for 7 years, are so used to her and her rearing/napping that it iisn't a big deal for you. But you have to think, as you've advertised her as a 'confidence giver' 'fun horse' etc what a nervous novice would think if she did that with them. It would certainly be a 'big deal' .

I see where you are coming from, but that sort of behaviour is years in the past now, she's been out on loan hacking with a fairly in experienced home for the last year, and has not exhibited that behaviour in that time, at most, occasionally she can be reluctant initially as if the hand break is on.


I think there is a difference though in advertising a confidence giving horse and aiming one as a novice ride, i have not anywhere said she'd be good for a novice but there are people out there like me at the time (i'm sure!?) who have ridden/loaned aren't complete novices but who want a horse that will go out and give them a great safe day doing what ever they want whether its galloping around with friends, jumping big fences, playing chase me charlie, hunting on boxing day, riding on the beach, going to clinics/ lessons etc just because some one wants confidence and fun doesn't necessarily make them a nervous nelly who'd cry if the horse stomped its foot!

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I see where you are coming from, but that sort of behaviour is years in the past now, she's been out on loan hacking with a fairly in experienced home for the last year, and has not exhibited that behaviour in that time, at most, occasionally she can be reluctant initially as if the hand break is on.


I think there is a difference though in advertising a confidence giving horse and aiming one as a novice ride, i have not anywhere said she'd be good for a novice but there are people out there like me at the time (i'm sure!?) who have ridden/loaned aren't complete novices but who want a horse that will go out and give them a great safe day doing what ever they want whether its galloping around with friends, jumping big fences, playing chase me charlie, hunting on boxing day, riding on the beach, going to clinics/ lessons etc just because some one wants confidence and fun doesn't necessarily make them a nervous nelly who'd cry if the horse stomped its foot!

I do see what you're saying. I laughed when my boy's new owner told me she won't let anyone else ride him as he's too difficult. However the problem with my boy was he would only nap and throw his toys out of the pram with a competent rider. I could put a complete novice on him and he'd plod along like a RS horse but as soon as anyone asked for more you'd get the napping and bucking. I wonder whether it's the same with Pip, as in not a lot has been asked of her in the inexperienced hacking home.

 

[LeannePip]

I do see what you're saying. I laughed when my boy's new owner told me she won't let anyone else ride him as he's too difficult. However the problem with my boy was he would only nap and throw his toys out of the pram with a competent rider. I could put a complete novice on him and he'd plod along like a RS horse but as soon as anyone asked for more you'd get the napping and bucking. I wonder whether it's the same with Pip, as in not a lot has been asked of her in the inexperienced hacking home.

Possibly, although still she had improved tremendously since those videos when i was riding her full time, end of 2014 beginning of 2015, i XC'd her in the 90-1ms at Iping/ Larkhill/ Dean Farm and Tweseldown and whilst she was sticky at the start after a couple of fences she was fine and got better at each event rather than worse or the same. she was also hacking out alone at home on roads and the farm and wasn't a problem at all to show jump so i do genuinely think its something she's grown/ worked out of, i'll keep going with her here press some buttons and get her out, the right family will come along and i won't loose any sleep because i know i have been 100% honest about every aspect of her!

 

[splashgirl45]

after reading the rest of the posts I also feel that with her medical history and sometimes dodgy behaviour she is much to highly priced...she would probably be ok for someone like me who has competed in the past and has ridden some challenging horses but now only wants a happy hacker/fun ride/riding club type...I would expect her price to be nearer £2,500.....sorry you did ask for peoples comments. I still like her though!!!!

 

[LeannePip]

after reading the rest of the posts I also feel that with her medical history and sometimes dodgy behaviour she is much to highly priced...she would probably be ok for someone like me who has competed in the past and has ridden some challenging horses but now only wants a happy hacker/fun ride/riding club type...I would expect her price to be nearer £2,500.....sorry you did ask for peoples comments. I still like her though!!!!

And i guess this is the problem with posting and asking for advice on an open forum - no one here actually knows the horse so any comment can be construed any which way.

Peoples nature is to remember the negative - but i've also posted on here about the time i accidentally entered her for the 90 at Tweseldown as a 5yo and despite a couple of green baby moments she was ace and stormed some meaty fences, or when she's jumped clear round some meaty showjumping despite me being the worst pilot ever. Or taking her on several boxing day hunts and her being amazingly well behaved jumping all sorts and standing at the meet no bother at all. or the time we got lost on the way back from a hunt and ended up hacking down the verge of some A or B road and her barely flicking a whisker . . .

 

[AmyMay]

When buying, the first thing I ask is 'can you tell me about the horse please?' I don't care how comprehensive the add is.

 

[stormox]

So do I- or 'Im phoning about the horse' how else would you start the conversation?

 

[Peter7917]

From a buyers point of view, if all the horse has done for the past year is hack then her past performance would have limited relevance for me.

If she is being marketed as a low level competition horse then I would expect her to be doing that now, not over a year ago.

IMO she is at present a glorified hack and an unreliable one at that given her napping issues and previous medical problems.

I would be expecting her to be realistically advertised at around £2000, she's a far cry from a 4k horse.

 

[LeannePip]

So do I- or 'Im phoning about the horse' how else would you start the conversation?

well i'd have thought having read the advert you may have some questions, so;

'Hi, I'm phoning about xxx, i see your advert says YYY, How are they with AAAA? I'm looking for something to do BBBBB . . . . . .'

If thats what people do thats fine, but when i'm face with 'tell me about your horse' it's like, where do you want me to start? i can babble on about her for hours but if it could turn out your looking for something to do dressage and i've been babbling on about how lovely she is to hunt! Alt east give me a starting point or i'll just read the advert back . . .

 

[LeannePip]

From a buyers point of view, if all the horse has done for the past year is hack then her past performance would have limited relevance for me.

If she is being marketed as a low level competition horse then I would expect her to be doing that now, not over a year ago.

IMO she is at present a glorified hack and an unreliable one at that given her napping issues and previous medical problems.

I would be expecting her to be realistically advertised at around £2000, she's a far cry from a 4k horse.

I'm sorry but i don't think it is completely irrelevant she's still the same horse and its hardly like i'm selling a 17yo harking on about how wonderful she was in her hay day several years ago. I've said i'll be bringing her back into proper work but am happy for a trial or short loan if its preferred so you can see what you're getting. none of this she's £xxx price now but if i carry on putting work in she'll be re-advertised for much more like you quite often see!

I've appreciated all of the useful advice given on here, i'll re do the advert but i don't think we need to be going round in circles here