Fed up of treed saddle not fitting - time for treeless?

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doris2008

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My TB is constantly changing shape. Seasonally he changes massively, and at the first moment he feels tightness or discomfort he will express it very dramatically! Whilst I am grateful he lets me know its not right, it results in £70 saddler visits many times in a year!
I had it done in November last year and within a month or so it wasn't right and instead of having it done again, as I knew it would need doing again in spring, I have spent all winter riding bareback - which incidentally I quite like!
We don't compete, and mostly happy hack these days with the odd schooling session and regular lunge work.
Having spoken to one or two people I am quite tempted to ditch the saddle and swop it for a treeless. I have only ever ridden in one which was on an icelandic pony and to be honest I didnt like it. There were no knee rolls and I think on my lad I need a bit more support to keep me in the saddle!
Have been recommended a saddle solutions saddle but they are very expensive and have no experience of any others.
He is 16.1ish and typical TB with pronounced withers. Would anyone be able to recommend a particular type which would suit him? Not particularly interested in looks, just want it to be comfortable for him and me and reduce the need for 10 saddler visits a year!!:D
 
Hi,

Contact saddle exchange, they are very experinced in fitting difficult horses. There really friendly, be worth having a chat with them!
 
I have recently moved from treed to treeless... or am in the process of. My reason was that a saddle could not be found that didnt slip to the right on my 5 year old middleweight cob.

I had an equine osteopath out, she was very helpful and identified that there was no prob with his back simply a lack of muscle development on the right hand side....caused by an ill fitting saddle in his last home which caused pressure points on the right meaning the muscle could not develop.

I have ordered a Barefoot Cherokee (knee rolls!) with a physio pad the Barefoot range have different width pommels and do one for a high withered horse. I might be worth phoning horse and harmony (Barefoot suppliers) and asking their advice. Alternatively there is a the "Better saddles" website which do a range of treeless and offer fitting advice.

good luck
 
This is why changeable gullet systems have become popular as horses vary incredibly in shape from food and work (and both together!)

I find it easier I can get a saddle I can adjust, and will use pads when necessary to get a decent fit.
 
Jen_Cots - I did think about this option too. It's just what I can afford through sale of my saddle. Been told I would get about £400 for my barnsby. I looked at a bates changeable one a few years back but were out of price range at the time.
There are so many options nowadays that I feel totally out of touch with what is on offer!
 
Adjustable gullet saddles are just the best thing ever! My mare doesn't change shape enormously, but enough to have the fit not be totally perfect fairly regularly. We have a fairfax gp with changeable gullets, that coupled with a wool saddle cloth, a half wool light weight one and a thin cotton one to swap between as needed keeps her comfy all year round!
p.s. if the leather ones are a bit steep then def consider a thorrowgood if the shape suits your horse - OH had one when his mare was coming back from a back prob as it was comfortable for her and very adjustable - it was ace! Comfy, not plasticy at all and v smart in appearence - most importantly though it suited the mare so she was comfortable and happy!
 
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Going into winter is a bad time to get a saddle fitted as the horse will undoubtably loose weight over winter, you are far better getting it fitted in Spring when he is at his largest, and then use a prolite pad underneath it in winter to allow for his loss of weight/muscle. I personally do not like Treeless, yes they have their place and i have use them for remedial work, but I have found serious issues with long term use.

My concern would be more that the saddler you are using leaves something to be desired. Rather than treed saddles in general.

My 4 are all in tree'd, I have never had a problem with any of them for the past 18 years. i trained to be a saddle fitter when I had serious problems 18 years ago with a well known saddler which caused my horse serious back problems. Since then i have only ever used Barry swain saddles on my mature horses, and Saddle company saddles to break my youngsters. But I check the fit every time i put the saddle on and to be honest they now very rarely change shape as their musculature is mature and not compromised by a badly made/fitted saddle. For my DWB who does lose a bit over winter a prolite fills the space and come spring he fits his saddle again. If your horse is changing more than the size of a prolite then you need to check his feed regime as he should not be changing shape that dramatically.
 
Bosworth - yes it probably was a bad time but he had had a year off and so I wanted to start on the right track.
He isn't in a consistant work regime - we yo yo quite a lot over the year, he head shakes and has had soundness issues so he is rarely in constant work. The size fluctuations are more of a muscular shape change than a weight one I think. He never gets very thin or very fat but his topline varies enormously with work and time off.
I do have prolite pads but they rarely improve the situation and I detest having to pad everything out in the hope it will fit better - whilst he usually tells me its wrong, I don't trust my opinion enough to judge whether the fit is ok or not.
I use Bridlepath and believe they are very reputable and well recommended. When you look back on his history of templates its incredible how much he changes.
 
well as for treeless my instructor thinks its like sitting on a sponge and finds them very unsecure and that she cant feel the horse underneath them!

My horse had muscle wastage from a poorly fitting saddle

we have just bought a jeffries falcon hawk event

it has a little bit of room at the shoulders for when he builds the muscle back up but for in the meantime im getting

lemieux pro sorb sheepsking halfpad with inserts for the withers shoulder area to bulk it up until he builds up his muscle
 
I've used a treeless (changing from a treed) for years, over long distances & hours in the saddle (do endurance). My mares back shape changed dramatically & improved beyond belief. I find sitting in 'normal' saddles that I can't feel anyway near as much & confined by the rolls. Being without rolls has made me sit up straight so has improved my riding as well (would still want rolls for jumping though). It feels like riding bareback with stirrups.

I have seen so many times other liveries raving about their saddler, then some months down the line when things go wrong (again), they change to a new one who is suddenly wonderful, tells them what's wrong with the old saddler who is now pants. I mean no offence to any talented saddler (I know a couple), but it seems to be a profession dogged by numerous bad ones just out to sell you something.

I am not evengelical about this, my mare has had a long time off through injury & now her treeless needs attention by the fitter (done a lot of miles). In the meantime I am using a treed saddle, which I consider to be a good fit, on her (again she would soon say if she was uncomfortable) whilst I get it sorted.

Try some, there are lots of different types (as in treed saddles). Some are well made some aren't (as in treed saddles), some types suit different shapes better than others (as in treed saddles). Do some research, ask around. You may try some & hate them, but keep an open mind & look at all types. I use a Podium, which does not have knee rolls so would not suit your requirements. It changes with the seasons as it has air bags underneath to provide gentle molding to the horses shape. You may also want to look at something like a free 'n' easy, a tree's saddle with a wide weight distribution system & more movement.

Hope you find something that suits!
 
I prefer to ride in a treeless saddle - I have a barefoot cheyenne - I have had it for a good few years now. I originally got it for my high withered TB, and rode in it for 2 years without any issues. I now have it on my cob. I feel far more secure in it as I am much closer to the horse and over the top sideway spooks are very easy to sit.

There are more expensive treeless saddles on the market - but for what you are doing (I am also a happy hacker, and I like to pop the odd log out hacking too) a cheyenne or a Cherokee (it has knee rolls) would do the job I would of thought.

Treeless saddles can take a bit of getting used to - some people hate them.
 
I have both tree'd and treeless saddles on my guys. Both have their uses - but OP, you do need to remember, that just because the saddle is treeless does not mean that it will fit or be suitable for your horse. The treeless saddles - just like the adjustable tree'd saddles are not suitable for everything, despite what the marketing may say.

I have a Wintec Isabell adjustable tree saddle on my mare, which is fab, and can be tweaked as she changes shape - but the basic saddle is a good fit on her, so the slight adjustment that the change at the front offers is fine for her.

I use a treeless on the pony - it suits her just fine, and I have ridden many hours and miles in it, and find it incredibly comfortable. Not everyone finds them comfortable. I don't have knee rolls on my treeless, but I like my dressage saddles, and I am really not worried about having knee rolls personally.

Try one by all means - but I don't think that they are a cheap option to go into. They are often just as expensive - if not more so, then many tree'd saddles.

I hope you find something to suit your ned, and get you some happy riding soon :)
 
Eek, it is very expensive to have a horse who changes shape. Having just purchased a new saddle, I looked into others and this is the conclusion I came to.

If I understand it correctly, A treeless saddle doesn't spread the weight across the horses back in the same way as a treed saddle, so can cause problems, especially if the rider is relatively heavy for the horse. I understand that the more expensive treeless saddles are much better than the cheaper ones. You can also get a semi-treed saddle, which I think tries to address that issue.

I have just invested in a new Wintec, I never thought I would have another Wintec, but they miles better than the old. They all have memory foam in them now so they can mould round the horses back better. But of course nothing sits as well as leather? However, I adore my new Isabella and ride in it most of the time.

I have also been reading about a 'Port Lewis' saddle pad, which a lot of people rave about as it helps them spot problems with a treed saddle very quickly. They are quite expensive though, so you may want to share with some friends.

Good luck.
 
I use Balance saddles on my horses, and their backs don't change shape seasonally. Horses don't carry weight in the saddle area unless they are obese - changes in shape are the result of muscle change, usually atrophy which is inevitable with traditional saddles. If the saddle doesn't interfere with the muscle development, the back stays healthy and that means the same shape all year round.
If you do go for a treeless, you need to get one of the more expensive ones - Heather Moffett or Solution. Most of the others have solid pommels, which have exactly the same effect on the horse as points on a treed saddle. I wouldn't want to use a treeless for anything other than dressage though - if you work in a light seat, you are bound to get pressure points under the stirrup bars in a flexible saddle.
 
Thanks for all the replies - very informative. I'm even more unsure now!

soloequestrian - I understand his back shape changes with weight, however surely the shape will change according to how developed the muscles are?

Going to have a look into all those suggested and do some more research.
In the mean time I think I may as well advertise my saddle as one way or another we need to try something different I think! :)
 
doris2008 said:
soloequestrian - I understand his back shape changes with weight, however surely the shape will change according to how developed the muscles are?
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If a horse with an already healthy back (eg youngster, one which has had time off) goes into a Balance saddle, then the muscles are already well-developed, and you don't see much change. If one with atrophied muscle in the wither area starts using a Balance, you usually see muscle development in that area which will stop once the back returns to normal. One of the great things about the system is that the saddle pads are adjustable, so it's rare for a horse to need different saddles during the development period. The muscles under the saddle don't tend to hypertropy with exercise, even when they have space to do so, so you wouldn't expect a particularly well-muscled horse to be a different shape compared to when it was less fit/muscled.
 
My youngster has gone through 4 different treed saddles in the past 18 months, plus several adjustments, so has cost me a fair bit! He is now rising 6, and a warmblood x so won't mature a bit longer yet either.

I have recently ridden him in a semi flex saddle, which are made by Barry Swain, and it was fab! He went a lot better and I felt it was really comfortable and secure. (if you google it there is some info on line) It was a dressage version and I would probably want a GP, but I would recommend them.

I am currently considering buying one, (although he has had a few issues recently with sacroiliac joints and has ended up having to have steroid injections), so I have to try and get those issues sorted first.

Brand new I think they are about £1900 but I have seen some second hand ones for between £800 and £1200. I'm hoping that as my current one cost me £800 only a few months ago I should be able to get most of that back.

I hate buying saddles......*.....gently rocks slowly in the corner.....* grrrrrr!!
Good luck!
 
soloequestrian said:
If a horse with an already healthy back (eg youngster, one which has had time off) goes into a Balance saddle, then the muscles are already well-developed, and you don't see much change. If one with atrophied muscle in the wither area starts using a Balance, you usually see muscle development in that area which will stop once the back returns to normal. One of the great things about the system is that the saddle pads are adjustable, so it's rare for a horse to need different saddles during the development period. The muscles under the saddle don't tend to hypertropy with exercise, even when they have space to do so, so you wouldn't expect a particularly well-muscled horse to be a different shape compared to when it was less fit/muscled.
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Do they cater for horses which are more developed on one side than the other - the saddler did take more sheep out of one side than the other last time. I was worried with somethink like an interchangable gullet system that this wouldnt be catered for.
Sounds like a good system actually. I'm very interested!

Sugarpuff - to be honest I have been avoiding it all together and just riding bareback! It feels perfectly normal now, although I have to say I get some strange looks!
 
doris2008 said:
Jen_Cots - I did think about this option too. It's just what I can afford through sale of my saddle. Been told I would get about £400 for my barnsby. I looked at a bates changeable one a few years back but were out of price range at the time.
There are so many options nowadays that I feel totally out of touch with what is on offer!
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Why don't you ring Barnsby? see if they can help, I no that they are currently running a free saddle health check service(in H&H) this week, could be worth a visit and wont cost you a penny........
 
I haven't read all the other replies but this is my experience.

My chap also changes shape regularly, he is a wannabe fatty but I try to keep him trim. It does not take much to make the saddle not fit, and tip, putting me in the wrong position.

The trouble with changeable gullets is that they do need fitting to some degree, and would take time to do even if you trust your own saddle fitting knowledge!

I decided to go for a treeless, and having limited funds have gone for an older Heather Moffett one which I am getting on very well with. Her new ones are much cheaper than the Solution Saddles.

I would always go with a gulletted saddle for lateral stability, and the only two types I have seen that I would touch are Heather's or the Solution.

Hope you find what works for you
 
apritina10 said:
Why don't you ring Barnsby? see if they can help, I no that they are currently running a free saddle health check service(in H&H) this week, could be worth a visit and wont cost you a penny........
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Really?! Will look that up this evening! Thanks for the heads up.

Have been recommended a solutions saddle - by my horses dentist. He has a similar horse with similar saddling issues. Sadly they are a little out of my price range currently. I am hoping I may be able to test his out on my lad and see how it feels.
 
doris2008 said:
Have been recommended a solutions saddle - by my horses dentist. He has a similar horse with similar saddling issues. Sadly they are a little out of my price range currently. I am hoping I may be able to test his out on my lad and see how it feels.
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They do sometimes have second hand / ex demo saddles on their website for a good price
 
doris2008 said:
Do they cater for horses which are more developed on one side than the other - the saddler did take more sheep out of one side than the other last time.
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Not specifically, but if you can have a test ride session or consultation, the person who does that will be able to advise on issues like this. Everyone who works for Balance is a rider or trainer or both and so the sessions tend to be about the whole situation and any problems that are going on, rather than just being focussed on the saddle. Most of the session will be ridden - effectively the horse gets to choose which saddle it likes best. If you are interested in learning more, have a look here http://www.balanceinternational.com/saddles_consultants.asp - you can see who is closest to you and then give them a ring. The rest of the website gives a lot more information on the system as a whole.
 
I have a ghost treeless saddle, and have used it for 3 years on two different horses. It has a gullet, and no hard pommel piece. They are not everyone's cup of tea, but I use it for all my activities and it never moves, even after 180 spooks! It is comfortable and fully adjustable for horse and rider. The new design has kneerolls on it, although I don't miss them on mine at all.
 
Can you try a treeless before actually buying one? I found it very nervewracking to ride in when I borrowed a pony last year. I have some very steep hills to negotiate and the lack of sideways stability was quite scary. I also wouldn't have trusted the saddle (it was a cheaper treeless) to not slip if the pony had spooked.
 
I have a Trekker Pro Endurance classic - it can look like a normal saddle if you take the 'handle' off. Doesn't need specialist pads, stirrup leathers etc.

http://www.equinewhispers.co.uk/sho...endurance-classic-treeless-saddle/prod_1.html

It is like the most adjustable treed saddle ever and I defy anyone to fall out of it :D While it is designed to ride like a dressage saddle I've jumped 2ft plus in it and every horses I've used it on has been happy in it.

I converted to treeless about 10 years ago when they were fairly new as I had a Section D who had 4 new saddles in under a year as he kept out growing them, he also had huge shoulders which limited the number of saddles that allowed him to move freely. My first saddle was a trekker that looked very much like the barefoots and I only upgraded to this one as the next horse didn't like a non gulleted saddle. I love treeless ;) but agree that they don't suit every horse or rider but IME they have their place.

You can pick them up for £250 - £350 on ebay sometimes (in fact, mine is going up for sale next month on there as I don't have a riding horse these days!) so pm it you want the listing number....
 
I have a Kent and Masters saddle with changeable gullet, I had the saddler out at the beginning of winter to check it when I bought it. I have just contacted the saddler to come and do another check as Saffy has lost weight. Although you still need the saddle checked you don't need to buy a new saddle.
 
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