Feed Advice...............may mare looks like a hat rack!!!

[Halfpass]

Have had her since sept. She is a rising 6 year old 16.1hh WB but still very backward in both physical and mental developement. Her coat is shiney her eyes are bright and her teeth were done recently.

She was, until the dreaded snow, in light work 4/5 times per week mixture of hacking schooling and lunging. She has had the last fortnight off becaue of snow and an injury. She had gradually lost weight and condition since i've had her really.

She is currently on good quality adlib hay (in stable at night and out in field during day). She is fed Falcon feeds Equitona 3-4 round scoops Alfa A oil 2 round scoops and soaked speedi beat 2 round scoops divided into 2/3 feeds!! This to me alreday seems a lot. Have called the Falcon feeds help line and they have advised to add some omega rice but not to incresae the amount she is fed.

Any other tips adbice or feed suggestions very much appreciated.

 

[K8x]

No Idea what Falcon Feeds are so unsure of the type of feed you are feeding. The key is fibre, lots of it!! I would add either a feed balancer (top spec comprehensive etc) or a pro-biotic like yea-sacc / pink powder to ensure she is utilizing all the available nutrients you are giving her. The other option is to use some sort of oil, whether in a an oil or extruded form, ie soya oil or something like outshine which is balanced with extra vitamin e and seleniium to counter-act the increase in free radicals produced through using straight oil. I personally use Top spec and outshine with a high fibre diet - cubes, unmollassed beet and unmollassed chaff and my horses look fantasic!

 

[S_N]

A few questions/suggestions. When were her teeth done? When was she last wormed and what with? Have you sent a droppings sample off for analysis? Have you have had tape worm bloods done? Is she clipped? What kind of rugs is she wearing?

I too have never heard of Falcon Feeds - sorry.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

is she a stressy sort? box walk, weave or wind suck? i would query gastric ulcers, and i would also get your vet to do a worm count and a full blood profile, incl liver and kidney function! from the quantity of feed you are giving, even if not of huge calorific value the alpha a should nearly be enough on its own! i would get your vet in for a full assessment.

 

[rascal]

There is a hilton herbs product with linseed in it, that was great when we bought a cob in poor condition, might just help yours.

 

[cptrayes]

Try dropping the sugar beet for a week - I had a mare once who would not keep any weight on while fed sugar beet but rounded up nicely without it. I never did understand what was going on there!

 

[Halfpass]

Gosh I really wasn't exoecting someone to suggest she needed a vet!!! i thought it was just a simple feed problem

She is unclipped but with a very thin coat. she is currently well rugged and toasty warm!

Her teeth are due again mid summer.

Sugar beet has only just been added sodon't think thats a problem.

The feed she is on is a coniditioning feed already and the extra they have advised me to add is a linseed based feed topper!!

 

[TGM]

Have you got any photos to show her condition? I presume when you say she is a hat rack you can see her ribs very easily?

She does seem to be getting a decent amount of grub, but although you say she gets ad lib hay, have you actually weighed how much she is eating? This would give us an idea of whether she is eating enough for her size and workload.

What is her temperament like? Is she a stressy, active sort who could be burning the weight off running around the field or pacing around the stable?

I've managed to find some info on the Equitona Conditioning Mix, and interestingly it is not as high calorie as many other conditioning cubes/mixes as it only has 11.4 MJDE/kg. As a comparison, Bailey's Topline Cubes are 13.5 MJDE/kg, Spillers Conditioning Cubes are 12 MJDE/kg, D&H Build Up Cubes are 12.5 MJDE/kg, Top Spec Cool Condition Cubes are 12.5 MJDE/kg and Winergy Condition is 12.4 MJDE/kg. Is there a specific reason you are feeding the Equitona? Or could you switch to a higher calorie conditioning feed?

I presume her worming is up to date and you have had a worm count done, so eliminating that as a cause of weight loss. Although you say your hay is good quality, it might be an idea to get it analysed to check the DE content. Then if the weight and DE of the hay she is eating is known, you can ring one or two of the feed companies to see if the food she is eating should be enough to make her gain weight.

If her diet is more than adequate for her needs and she is still losing condition, then may be wise to have further tests done to find out if there is an underlying problem.

 

[CBFan]

Have you consideredtrying her on a different conditioning feed? Baileys number 4 is known to have good results. Her feeds do sound rather large though so I would be tempted to try her on a balancer -either topspec or bluechip or similar...

 

[Toast]

[ QUOTE ]
Gosh I really wasn't exoecting someone to suggest she needed a vet!!! i thought it was just a simple feed problem

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest id get the vet out for bloods anyway just to check there wasnt anything wrong. I swear by feeding ad lib haylage for putting weight on. Also possibly giving some pink powder to help her utilise the nutrients from her feed. So if thats not working id get the vet to have a look.
x

 

[MegaBeast]

you say she's toasty warm... it may be she's too warm, some horses will lose condition if too warm, she shouldn't feel toasty as such under her rugs.

My mare is similar, very lean, however she also has a terrific amount of muscle on her backside so I don't worry overly.

Is yours just ribby with good muscle and topline or in generally poor condition?

Is her coat bright and shiny or dull?

for what it's worth my mare gets 2scoops Allen and Page Calm and Condition and 1scoop cool cubes and 2 scoops AlfaA, 1 cup Top Spec balancer and 1scoop magnitude split into 3 feeds a day plus ad lib haylage 24/7 and 2 scoops AlfaA overnight. I also add oil to the Alfa A (she doesn't like AlfaA Oil!) She has plenty of energy, and never will be the type to carry much weight being the angular TB type!

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

isnt your vet your first port of call if you are not happy with your horse condition or well being ? being as she is on a good diet? you would need a blood count for small red worm, a faecal sample wont tell you this!

 

[dreamcometrue]

Dodson and Horrell Build Up mix is good for putting weight on.

 

[amandaco2]

when was she last wormed and what with? has she had a count done?

 

[Puppy]

I'd ease her over onto haylage instead of hay, but still ab lib.

 

[LeFox]

[ QUOTE ]

Have had her since sept. She is a rising 6 year old 16.1hh WB but still very backward in both physical and mental developement. Her coat is shiney her eyes are bright and her teeth were done recently.

She was, until the dreaded snow, in light work 4/5 times per week mixture of hacking schooling and lunging. She has had the last fortnight off becaue of snow and an injury. She had gradually lost weight and condition since i've had her really.

She is currently on good quality adlib hay (in stable at night and out in field during day). She is fed Falcon feeds Equitona 3-4 round scoops Alfa A oil 2 round scoops and soaked speedi beat 2 round scoops divided into 2/3 feeds!! This to me alreday seems a lot. Have called the Falcon feeds help line and they have advised to add some omega rice but not to incresae the amount she is fed.

Any other tips adbice or feed suggestions very much appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she is genuinely bright eyed and bushy tailed apart from losing weight since you have had her I would say there is most likely something in her diet that she cannot process.

I would take her off ALL feed except the Alfa A oil, add Pink powder at high dose and give ad lib hay. See how that goes for 2/3 weeks and if no improvement call your vet. She is getting a huge amount of hard feed for doing light or no work and is still losing weight - something is def wrong somewhere.

 

[rlhnlk]

My Tb mare lost weight to the point of being noticeably ribby on the first yard I've had her on in winter. She got loads of hardfeed, properly wormed, teeth done etc and I assumed it was simply because she was a tb. Looking back I realise it was because she stood in a field without any hay/haylage all day and stressed about her herd (she was in charge of 8 other horses in her mind) then was stressed in her stable overnight (in a shut in barn next door to a weaver/box walker/windsucker).

I now have her on a yard where she lives out when there isn't snow covering the field with my 2 other horses. She gets ad-lib haylage in the field and at the moment in the stable, she also gets 3.0 kg endurance mix, a liquid balancer (equiform), 1 cup outshine, a big trough of soaked grass nuts and a bucket of hifi senior (its the only dengie she will eat). She has a neck now and her ribs can be felt but not seen.

The biggest differences were permanent ad-lib haylage and she now has minimal stress. Assuming yours is wormed then it is probably worth looking at what stress she does have and how long (if at all) she goes without food, e.g if field has no grass and no hay put out.

I would also swop the speedi-beet for either alfa-beet or grass nuts and include a balancer with a digestive enhancer to ensure she gets the most out of what she eats and that she is getting sufficient nutrients.

 

[TGM]

Two more questions - is she actually eating all her feed, as I know in another post you said she often left her breakfast. Also, how long has she been on her current diet listed in your post above (including the beet which you say has been added recently)?

 

[AmyMay]

I have been amazed at the transformation in my horse since adding D&H Build up cubes to his diet. He has maintained condition beatifully without being fat and his top line is just amazing. (I've stopped them now due to the snow and his lack of exercise), but really was terribly impressed.

I was feeding them in only a small quantity alongside High Fibre Nuts and Alfa Oil.

 

[Halfpass]

Right I will try to answer as many questions as possible. I had a very sleepless night last night worrying about my poor girl. I had a quick look at a ocndiiton scoring sheet and I think she is a 2! People at the yard keep telling me she's not as bad as I think she is so I will try and get a photo or 2 over the weekend to see what you guys think.

Teeth last done 21/04/09 so are actually coming up to be due. Will get onto that now and bring the dentist forward a bit.

Last wormed 4 weeks ago (can't remember what with but our yad has a good worming prgramme)

Not sent samples off for worm counts but will do.

Not clipped and currently well rugged up (possibly too well so have reduced this!)

Not a stressy type but has been out on her own overnight and did obviously get stressed as she got caught up and cut her leg so have now changed her to being out in the day. Only problem with this is she is so eager to get out she won't eat her breakfast!!

Haven't weighed hay but i'd she gets about a 20lb net at night which goes plus a smaller one which has some left and then adlib in the field.

No resaon for feeding falcon feeds just one that I have used before and liked.

She has no muscle or top line. Have only had her since Sept and only started riding her at beginning of oct have been building up slowly but having 2 weeks off seems to have lost allt he work I have done so far!!!

At the moment we are not allowed haylage. Our hay comes included in out livery bill and they will not discount the livery cost to allow for me tobuy in my own haylage! Will chat to YO though.

Current diet she has been on for 3 weeks but didn't add the sugat beet till about a week ago! Am also going to be adding a linseeed supplement once it arrives on monday!

She doesn't eat all her breakfast but when she comes in she finishes it off about 3ish then has her evening meal at 5. She eats this quite slowly and have looked in on her at 8ish beofre and she still had a lot left but its always finished in the morning! Have asked if first person up can giver her brekky to her to try and get her to eat it before she goes out.

Had thought about changing tobuild up / no4. Not sure how long I should wait to see if current diet work though!

Hope I have answered all questions. I am soooo confused. Vet came out to dress her wound 2 weeks ago and never mentioned her weight to me so hopefully he wasn't worried.

Maybe its just this real cold snap that has made her drop off a bit, plus she was out the first night it snowed which is when she got injured so maybe she just got a bit distressed!!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Had thought about changing tobuild up / no4. Not sure how long I should wait to see if current diet work though!

[/ QUOTE ]

Some horses just don't do well during the winter months, no matter how hard we try. But I would too would be concerned, after having read this mornings post - especially if she's as light as you say.

I'd say she is a stressy type (something that doesnt eat it's grub is, in my book - unless of course she hates what you are feeding her). Having her out overnight probably did her no favours.

I'd look at totally changing her feed to a nut based food that is very conditioning - broken down in to at least three feeds a day,. but also keeping it simple. Feeding breakfast at around 6.00am and ensuring she gets hay in to her before going out. Then a lunch and then tea (or late night feed instead of lunch if that's easier).

I'd also get the vet to give her a once over.......

 

[KatB]

What is her current diet?

I would try and stick to a high fibre/high oil diet where possible...

 

[TarrSteps]

Out of curiosity, why is is that some horses don't do well in the winter here? Oddly, this is not the assumption in North America in areas with very harsh winters so I'm curious about the reasoning.

 

[KatB]

I think a lot of horses diets here are reliant on good grass quality, which obviously declines in winter....? Whereas I presume (completely ignorantly!) that horses in North america don't have such good "pastures" as such, as the climate isn't as good to grow lush grass?!

 

[seabiscuit]

[ QUOTE ]
Out of curiosity, why is is that some horses don't do well in the winter here? Oddly, this is not the assumption in North America in areas with very harsh winters so I'm curious about the reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the hay and haylage quality tends to be extremely rubbish

In Hampshire it is impossible to find good quality haylage- all the yards around here have given up sourcing haylage so everything is now on hay. The best hay we could find was very bland with no nutrition. It is a combination of several years of bad hay harvest plus there are hardly any good hayfields around any more.( well in the south east)

It really sucks because a couple of years ago my horses looked fantastic on just haylage alone , along with just half a scoop of pony nuts. Now, everyone has to stuff their horses full of hard food, and they still dont look great. I do think that hay quality means everything with regards to how well they do or dont do in the winter. I'd imagine in Canada/the US you have thousands of acres of rolling grassy fields!

 

[CBFan]

I think you should really try to reduce the VOLUME she is getting fed in a bucket as she is obviously struggling to eat it all in one go.... I'd keep her on what she is on at the moment but while SLOWLY weaning her off it, wean her onto a balancer (handful at a time) which you can then feed with Alfa a and if you want to continue it, the speedi-beet too. To be honest I find that horses need to be on the same feed for several weeks before you can see a difference in their condition.

I'd also feed hay off the floor (or from a tub on the floor) rather than from nets. she will eat far more and she will be using the correct muscles across her back to do so.

 

[Bugly]

Once you have eliminated any underlying veterinary problems as suggested above I have had much success feeding my highly strung TB mare on Allen and Page Calm and Condition.

I shovelled bags of Build Up and Conditioning Cubes etc into her and this is the only feed that she doesn;t stress out on and she maintains weight really well all winter. Plus you mix it up with lots of Chaff (she has Badminton Easy Rider) so its a nice high fibre feed. It's fabulous!

 

[Worried1]

Firstly hay or haylage, as much of it as she will eat and rather than feeding two huge feeds I would split her meals into more manageable rations.

Blitz is a sod for not eating and can lack condition but we found feeding him the same amount but split into 4 feeds a day made a massive difference. He eats up and looks positively porkie!

Horses are grazers and are not designed to cope with large amounts of hard feed in one hit.

Another feed which we have found which has has been really succesful on keeping weight on is a feed like Saracen's Relve or Allen & Page Sugar and Cereal free, it may be that your mare doesn't tolerate cereals very well and these specialist feeds have high energy, oil and protein level minus the usual cereals.

I also definitely thing it's worth doing a worm count and routine bloods just to rule anything out.

 

[cptrayes]

Have her kidney function checked. I had a horse 25 years ago who ate like a rhino and lost weight every winter. It turned out, after two years, that he had kidney failure. Just to be sure I'd have liver done at the same time.

I had to fight to get the vets to believe me that there was anything wrong with my horse. He was bright eyed and bushy tailed and in full work. But I knew that the amount of food going in did not square with the lack of cover on his ribs. I finally found an Olympic vet who believed me but even he was astounded when the test came back as almost 100% loss of kidney function. It was too late for my boy, don't leave it with yours, please, it's treatable if you catch it early.

 

[brighteyes]

I agree to split the feeds into four smaller feeds and mix them freshly before each serving. Is she going out and exercising it all off?

I'd definitely have a bloods done and teeth again. Shame the YO won't allow you to buy in your own haylage for a slight rent reduction. What is it with these people

A horse is not doing well and it's time to be helpful!