Feed allergy advice, please?

S

Shilasdair

Patting her thylacine
Joined
26 March 2007
Messages
23,686
Location
Daemon from Hades
Visit site
Sorry to bore you all with more allergy questions.
frown.gif

My 3yo has been diagnosed with erythema multiforme (no, you won't have heard of it, it's so rare) which is basically an immune system over-reaction to a protein based allergen.
The vet told me nothing can be done, but I'd quite like to try to find out what she is allergic to, and get rid of it.
smile.gif

So if I cut out her feeds one by one, how long should I leave each one out of the diet before I will know if that's the culprit?
Thanks!
S
grin.gif
 
My horse is sensitive to protein, alfalfa and sugar. He has been a lot better since I stopped Alfalfa. He also does not tolerate sugar.

I noticed a difference after a few days, but it has taken about 3 weeks to get it out of his system. He is less itchy, lethargic and the diarrhoea has stopped!

I am sorry to hear about your horse and I hope you can find a suitable diet for her.

I have him on Allan & Page slim and healthy and Fast Fibre. He will also have hay instead of haylage this winter too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My horse is sensitive to protein, alfalfa and sugar. He has been a lot better since I stopped Alfalfa. He also does not tolerate sugar.

I noticed a difference after a few days, but it has taken about 3 weeks to get it out of his system. He is less itchy, lethargic and the diarrhoea has stopped!

I am sorry to hear about your horse and I hope you can find a suitable diet for her.

I have him on Allan & Page slim and healthy and Fast Fibre. He will also have hay instead of haylage this winter too.

[/ QUOTE ]

May I ask how you know what your horse is allergic to? Did you have him allergy tested?
My 3yo is on Graze On, Spillers Pasturemix, Speedibeet, and Equivite...which I started her on at about the same time she became 'lumpy'....
S
grin.gif
 
When we found out what H was allergic to it took an awful long time - Basically we stabled her and cut out all her hard feed and fed hay alone (she was also put onto shavings so she couldn't eat the bedding) - We waited three days to see if there were any changes before moving onto haylage. Again we waited 3 days - Then we introduced each individual feed and finally turned her out onto grass - It was worth it though as now we know exactly what sets off her colic episodes
frown.gif


Good luck - you'll be glad you did this - but it does take time.
Kate x
 
Our tbxwelshD was allergic to grain and sugar, but only cane sugar not beet, this is presumably because of the long chain carbohydrate in it. In the case of sugar we could tell within 12 hours of her not having it. i.e. She came in for her tea, was given no sugar and in the morning she was a total nut job, she went through three days of withdrawl symptoms. Very nasty and very scary. The grain was not as dramatic. With people on exclusion diets the recomended time to refrain from eating the suspect food is three weeks. I currently have a patient who has been deeply depressed and suicidal, with picca for two years. She has stopped eating all gluten and 2 months later is a different woman, no depression, no suicidal ideation and no picca. She is now thinking that she may have problems with sugar and cheese, her symptoms begin to alleviate in about 3 days, BUT during that time she gets awful headaches. The allergy test from the gp are pretty useless, but she is now going to a specialist allergy clinic in Airedale W. Yorks. I think with horses it is trial and error. Our mare had a cough, I had read an article in Horse magazine which talked about a lame animal who righted when feed was sorted, which also incidentaly had a cough which was alleviated by the diet change. Our mare was less than 3 weeks from being put down as her behaviour was so dangerous. Sorry for the essay, but having had a horse (who lived happily until the age of 24 (about 14 years longer than she would have) a sister who is allergic/intolerant to/of an incredible range of stuff I am becoming an expert by default. My current mare cannot tolerate alfalfa or carrots. Am I right in thinking that alfalfa is very high in protein btw?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Googled and found this...just out of interest it may not be as bad as you think. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1770484

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, the vet did say that she may undergo spontaneous remission, but it first started in around April.
frown.gif

She seems to have attacks of it, varying in severity from a few lumps to quite extensive areas of 'halos', lumps and even some slightly weepy ones
frown.gif
(most of the time her coat/hair is unaffected and she doesn't seem bothered).
Because it keeps recurring, I am thinking she must be getting continually exposed to the allergen.
confused.gif

S
grin.gif
 
Observation, elimination and lots and lots of research on the net.

I have always noticed that he had the runs with spring/autumn grass, sugar beet, haylage and was a bit itchy.

I noticed he was depressed, itchy and not himself and insisted on a blood test by the vet, she was reluctant. It turns out he had abnormal kidney function and high protein. He then had a urine test which confirmed this and then he had to have a blood test following a 12 hour fast.

His blood tests are returning to normal now I have stopped the alfalfa, high protein, and sugar. He is a lot less itchy and does not have the runs anymore and is brighter in himself.

I have to avoid rich grass, sugar beet, haylage, alfalfa, and high protein such as feed balancers and high protein feeds.

http://www.womenandhorses.com/protein20050517.html

I found a place on the web which tests for allergies, but I am lucky I didnt need it - on google.

I would check to see if what you are feeding contains alfalfa/high protein and take it from there. Feed no more than 12% protein.
 
I had a horse with terrible allergy type problems along with recurrent azoturea. With hindsight, she was much, much better when she was fed on what was called at the time "Allan and Page Intolerance Mix" and hay. I think "Ride and Relax" might now be the equivalent. Might be worth a try.
 


[/ QUOTE ]My 3yo is on Graze On, Spillers Pasturemix, Speedibeet, and Equivite...which I started her on at about the same time she became 'lumpy'....
S
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Could you cut them all out and then reintroduce them one at a time ? Assuming horsey isnt going to drop condition drastically in the meantime obviously
blush.gif

Just thought it might be a bit quicker than reducing them one by one..
 
I am not convinced it is protein levels as I am not overly generous with the hard feed - her ration being handful of Graze On, handful of Spillers pasture mix, half a sieve (unusual measure, I know
laugh.gif
) of Speedibeet, and 1/2 measure of Equivite Vit and Mineral.
She also gets hay and haylage...but always has.
I suspect it is either the Equivite...as I started it in the spring, or possibly an ingredient change in the Spillers, or as a long shot, it could be the detergent I wash her Sweet Itch hoodies with? I don't know
frown.gif

Her behaviour is always good..she is always friendly, and calm to the point of being laid back, no diarrhoea or other signs.
WHat do you think I should do, folks?
S
grin.gif
 
Hmmm...has he suggested using any of the antihistimine type drugs? You could give hilton herbs a ring as they maybe able to supply you with some homeopathic remedies to ease the symptoms. Am not sure if the pollen season is over just yet, also it could possibly be something in her pasture that she is sensitive to. Its a toughy, but if any consolation, I posted about supplement hell, and now I have cut out the vast majority of what I have been sticking in, my pony is now licking the print of her bowl.
grin.gif
Only worked that one out by looking at the ingredients in EVERYTHING, and knocking out those that had the same action. Oooo Global herbs do a bumpy skin supp, but it really stinks
crazy.gif
...one I have also stopped feeding as didn't make any difference to my girls lumps. Both Hilton and Global Herbs have vets on the team so would try them for some advice...you don't have to buy.
grin.gif
 
Sparks is intolerant to several things - sugarbeet, haylage, mollasses, lush grass (O.K. if severely restricted) etc... She had constant diarrhoea - Vet did some basic tests on urine and bloods then suggested either pinpointing the triggers by trial & error, or having allergy test done...............tried the cheaper option of trail and error 1st!!! Have found the feeding Aloe Vera daily has also really helped.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Could you cut them all out and then reintroduce them one at a time ? Assuming horsey isnt going to drop condition drastically in the meantime obviously
blush.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

blush.gif
You've seen her then?! Condition is never a concern.
I feed the three of them loose in the field, so not feeding her would mean I'd have to hold her in a headlock til my old mare had finished, though, and she'd think it was highly entertaining. Maybe I should cut her to Graze on, as it's just grass, and Speedibeet....?
S
grin.gif
 
If \i were in your shoes I would take her back to grass/hay only (assuming that she does not have a problem with that!) and then very slowly, three weeks each item, introduce the feeds you feel she needs, avoiding all molassed feed. Possibly feeding straights as then you can be sure of what she has.
smile.gif
Oh our mare was ok with droppings but was very wet in the stable and thirsty.
 
[ QUOTE ]
If \i were in your shoes I would take her back to grass/hay only (assuming that she does not have a problem with that!) and then very slowly, three weeks each item, introduce the feeds you feel she needs, avoiding all molassed feed. Possibly feeding straights as then you can be sure of what she has.
smile.gif
Oh our mare was ok with droppings but was very wet in the stable and thirsty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm I feel she doesn't need a hard feed, but she feels differently.
How likely do you think it is that Speedibeet would be a problem?
Oh, I forgot to say, she gets half an apple in every feed and adores them...are many allergic to apples?
S
smile.gif
 
I would cut out all her hard feed - Harsh I know!!!!

Assuming her lumps then go (..............and she isn't actually allergic to some random insect or tree pollen!!!!
crazy.gif
), I would then introduce the feeds one at a time (a week apart).
 
Speedibeet would have my mare shitting water in 3 days!!!
frown.gif
........................I know because they gave her it (despite instruction of NO BEET) when she was on livery...............could hit the back wall with [****] whilst standing at the door!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have been told antihistamines are unlikely to work (I have got some steroids in case she needs them), so I'm undecided. Have you had success with antihistamines?
And I am very wary of Globalherbs stuff as they have a fondness to garlic...which gives me human urticaria
laugh.gif
as I am very allergic to garlic (no vampire comments, please
wink.gif
).
S
smile.gif
 
Garlic also causes itching diarrhoea too. Forgot to say, have to stay way from this too!!! J is so sensitive for a 16.3 793 kg dolop!

Antihistamines should work, but surely its better to just cut out the allergen?
 
[ QUOTE ]
as I am very allergic to garlic (no vampire comments, please
wink.gif
).
S
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

La La La La La...................I'm not saying a word!!!!
grin.gif
 
The problem is that they can be allergic/intolerant to/of anything at all, ours was fine with beet sugar (and so is sister
smile.gif
we have to buy silver spoon for her not tate and lyle!) It really is trial and error and a pain. The other problem we had was that you can't absolutely guarantee that 'kind' members of the public don't feed your horse something that they can't cope with. We have never had a problem with carrots until the current Appy, but she can't have any. She looks like a sumo wrestler and goes off her head, within a week of her not having them she shrinks to normal size and her wonderful temprement returns.
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Speedibeet would have my mare shitting water in 3 days!!!
frown.gif
........................I know because they gave her it (despite instruction of NO BEET) when she was on livery...............could hit the back wall with [****] whilst standing at the door!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Urgh.
That comes under the 'too much info' category
grin.gif

Damn, is nothing safe? I am so tempted just to give her a steroid jag (or jab as you English say
wink.gif
).
S
frown.gif
 
I'm not sure that it would work anyway
frown.gif
It may make the reaction worse (If I remember rightly steroids can potentiate some allergens) Our mare always looked like an Ardennes, actually slimmed down and was much fitter, we think it was some form of water retention.
 
My pony's lumps were mechanical caused by a shite saddle...funnily enough a treeless one. She ended up having steroid injections which still didn't work..just an increased risk of laminitis and a grumpy mare who now really dislikes my vet.
laugh.gif
I don't have any personal experience of antihistimines, but have seen people give them, would personally be cautious cos most of them cause drowsiness in human beans. Hiltons might be able to advise you. I've got nettle and seaweed from them instead of redcell. Among my many other problems this year with suspensory ligament damage, on her 3rd day out she nearly collasped and all the vet could find was slight anaemia. She looked falling down drunk. Just started walk work as she is all chipper again.
grin.gif
 
She isn't retaining fluid, or showing any other signs. I may give the antihistamines a miss then.
I will start her on her reduced feed...of just Graze on and Speedibeet (the beet will be the next one to go). If you never hear from me again, you know she didn't appreciate the menu.
I should try to get some photos of the skin patterns for you (and my vet asked for one too...as it's so rare).
S
grin.gif
 
Back to basics I'd say. Cut out everything a feed company could meddle with and re-introduce gradually. Is there anything at all might be getting into the grazing, or perhaps be a seasonal contaminant?

Aww what do I know
frown.gif
I hope it's something and nothing and goes away.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Back to basics I'd say. Cut out everything a feed company could meddle with and re-introduce gradually. Is there anything at all might be getting into the grazing, or perhaps be a seasonal contaminant?

Aww what do I know
frown.gif
I hope it's something and nothing and goes away.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, she's been in that field for two or more years...no treatments to it...
I will just try a process of elimination, ending with eliminating either her, or me
grin.gif

S
smile.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top