Feed balancer: TopSpec or BlueChip?

Oberon said:
I do agree with you - but I do feel feed companies should shoulder some of the blame. They market inappropriate feeds to horse owners and blag some science to sell it.

The owners never know where to turn half the time...YOs and feed store owners are often the points of contact and advice!

Molasses in the guise of mogolo in lamintic feeds. Wheatfeed in laminitic feeds....I could go on and on.

I don't think the prevalence of ulcers is only dietary - but grains and conditioning feeds really won't be helping the situation.

I had a forage analysis done by Dodson and Horrell - who highlighted the problems with my forage and then on the next page tried to flog me some of their feeds that were totally inappropriate!

I really can't take the word of any nutritionist who is paid by a feed company. I would only consider using an independent with a good reputation.
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I do agree, the feed companies should shoulder some of the blame but they are in the business of supply and demand and as long as people fail to grasp the basic concepts of feeding they will continue to supply them with what they ask for. There is one company who markets a best selling fibre feed for laminitics, it bears the Laminitis Trust's logo (don't start me on that one!), if you check the spec, there is NO probiotic and there is not enough biotin for even maintenance levels, absolutely drives me mad, this feed can be seen in every feed shop in the land and is a best seller! People think that feeding it will prevent and treat laminitis no matter what kind of grazing they have the poor unfortunate pony on and are always surprised when it goes down with laminitis.

I also agree that independent nutritionists are far less likely to give unbiased options, although a good company nutritionist should give advice that is not detrimental to your horse, there are good and bad within the industry I have no doubt.
 
what do you all mean when you say you stopped feeding the balancer as you didnt wish to die??? what do you mean. Does it supply lots of energy or something??

I just spoke to TopSpec and she was very helpful, she is sending me the ingredient list and comp chart in today's post.

But you can see from that spreadsheet TopSpec does have more in it than BC (albeit it is out of date).

I think I am liking TS at the moment.
 
Amaranta said:
I do agree, the feed companies should shoulder some of the blame but they are in the business of supply and demand and as long as people fail to grasp the basic concepts of feeding they will continue to supply them with what they ask for. There is one company who markets a best selling fibre feed for laminitics, it bears the Laminitis Trust's logo (don't start me on that one!), if you check the spec, there is NO probiotic and there is not enough biotin for even maintenance levels, absolutely drives me mad, this feed can be seen in every feed shop in the land and is a best seller! People think that feeding it will prevent and treat laminitis no matter what kind of grazing they have the poor unfortunate pony on and are always surprised when it goes down with laminitis.

I also agree that independent nutritionists are far less likely to give unbiased options, although a good company nutritionist should give advice that is not detrimental to your horse, there are good and bad within the industry I have no doubt.
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I can see us going out for a drink and ending up crank calling all the feed companies
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........and I used to feed Mollichop and Bran
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Oberon said:
Iron is a big problem - they can't easily excrete that. Too much Vit C will also enhance iron absorption - robbing zinc....

Other excretion ability isn't the problem - it's the imbalances they cause while they're in there.

It would be lovely if we all got our forage analysed - or refused to buy hay/haylage unless it was already done by the seller (I believe this is the norm in the dairy industry in the US).

Until then - we need to demand better and more balanced. Equimins has listened to us and brought out a specific product - as has another company.

Hopefully it won't be long until the other companies catch on.

I saw amazing improvements in my elderly boy (who was already healthy and had a 'good diet') when I balanced my minerals - I've had more compliments about how well he look this year than ever before too.
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Interesting, have not come across the Equimins supplement, is it bespoke? The other one I believe is Feedmark but it is very expensive and I don't think the uptake was brilliant.
 
Amaranta said:
Interesting, have not come across the Equimins supplement, is it bespoke? The other one I believe is Feedmark but it is very expensive and I don't think the uptake was brilliant.
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The Equimins one is by telephone order only so far. A bunch of barefooters brow beat him until he formulated it - but it's gaining in popularity so it might end up on the website eventually.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
what do you all mean when you say you stopped feeding the balancer as you didnt wish to die??? what do you mean. Does it supply lots of energy or something??
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I had 5 horses and I put them all on TS, about 5 days later my yearling took to trying to box with anyone who went near him, my old tb mare had always suffered from separation anxiety (but only if left totally alone) went berserk if I took just 1 horse out of the field, the broodmare barged through the gate every time it opened and the 2 TB's did unspeakable things which resulted in me meeting the ground in various unpleasant ways!

I stopped feeding it and they all returned back to normal, the sceptic in me had to try it again few weeks later just to be sure..... it was definitely the top spec!!! :-O
 
SpanishNeddy said:
what do you all mean when you say you stopped feeding the balancer as you didnt wish to die??? what do you mean. Does it supply lots of energy or something??

I just spoke to TopSpec and she was very helpful, she is sending me the ingredient list and comp chart in today's post.

But you can see from that spreadsheet TopSpec does have more in it than BC (albeit it is out of date).

I think I am liking TS at the moment.
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On paper, it is not heating as it contains no cereal grains, but I have deff had one get too excited on it. I believe that it possibly makes some feel a little too well and thus have a little too much energy :)
 
After reading all the hype on the TopSpec balancer I decided to try it on my TB. Got through a few bags, and if anything his condition and general health deteriorated. Was not at all impressed! Now he's on one of the supplements Oberon spoke of, and I'm much happier with his condition, though he was better on no supplement at all than on the TopSpec.
 
Ah ok thanks.

I am now changing my mind! my horses problem is that he is too tense/highly strung/hot and a bit mad to ride (in an anxious/nervy way NOT excitable!). So I do not want him to get worse!!!!!!!!!!

ahhhhh confused now :confused:
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Ah ok thanks.

I am now changing my mind! my horses problem is that he is too tense/highly strung/hot and a bit mad to ride (in an anxious/nervy way NOT excitable!). So I do not want him to get worse!!!!!!!!!!

ahhhhh confused now :confused:
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Ahh sorry to be the cause of confusion, TS do a supplement version of the balancer which is much less likely to heat them up, it was called Comprehensive but I think it is now called All In One, it is less palatable than the balancer but may be an option. Other than that Spiller Original or D&H Ultimate will do a decent job. The other option is either TS Leisure Time or Spillers Lite. BC would be at the very bottom of my list tbh but their marketing machine is fabulous ;)

Spanish horses can indeed be very tense, I have one mare here who is typical, a sweetie but incredibly tense, I have spent months working her long and low and gaining her trust, she is 200% better now. Singing helps! She is the only one in the world who thinks I am the next Rhiana :D The other thing I do is make sure no cereal ever passes her lips!
 
TopSpec now do a cool balancer. This is designed to be fed along a product such as their cool condition cubes which provide energy but not the full vit and minerals spectrum.

I find it hard to really judge what works and what doesn't. Our weather and, consequently grass quality within a field, is so variable that any increase/decrease in condition could as easily be attributable to other factors as it could be the balancer being used at the time.

Take my horse, when I got him he was on cool mix and chaff. He was a stresshead, prone to weight loss but always shiney and glossy looking (helped by being black!). I changed him over to a cereal and starch-free diet supplemented with oil and he's less of a stresshead, still prone to weight loss and shiney and glossy. At the same time as he's changed feeds, he's settled into his new home and done lots of de-spooking and confidence building work with me.

I don't know what role the feed played but if/when he's stressy now, I know it's not due to too much starch/cereal. He's on a balancer which he may not need but I can;t forumlate a balancer specifically for him because a) I don't know how and b) it would need to change with the seasons and whenever he moves fields.

I don't know how much truth there is about too much of one thing blocking uptake of another - can anyone give a real example? But it's highly unlikely that he's getting too much of any one thing I believe.
 
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Amaranta said:
The other thing I do is make sure no cereal ever passes her lips!
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I have hot Tb's and I follow that rule too!!

OP - just be careful with the balancers, some are on a cereal base and you might not be feeding much but to an already hot horse it can be all the difference!

What are you currently feeding and why do you feel you need to change?
Genuine question - maybe theres something else that will do the job. :)
 
Those not on a soya base are generally on either a wheatfeed or an oatfeed base. There is no starch carrying grain in either wheatfeed or oatfeed, both are made from the husks that are left over after the grain has been extracted (bran by any other name) and are in fact a good source of extra fibre, most, if not all fibre/conditioning/pony nuts have these as a base, only grass and/or alfalfa nuts don't contain them. There should not be a problem with calcium take up as the feed they become will be balanced to rectify this.
 
Oberon said:
There are currently two commercial mineral supplements that I will agree with, but after another poster huffed at me and accused me of 'stealth marketing' recently, I am not going to say what they are.
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PM me. I would be interested to know. :)
 
I've had a very positive experience with TopSpec in the past - my old eventing mare just did so well on it! She kept weight a lot better, seemed calmer and easier to 'communicate' with out XC (!) and just looked super. No other feed had made her that well. I swapped her to Baileys once to see if I could get away without such a big cost, but she was clearly not as good on it.

Honestly, all you can do it try one -and see if it works! If you're happy with it, stick!

My new chap is a bit of a tubby tubster and he's on the Spillers lite balancer while I try and get his weight issues under control and get him fit enough to be in full work. After this I may have to switch him to something with a bit more to it - or I might stay put! I don't feed him anything else alongside it - bar lots of soaked forage.

:)
 
Top spec balancer that I use is leisure time and it is cereal free as my mare is allergic to cereals so I did a lot of research before picking this one! Never fizzed her up and she is doing very well on it. Also a bag lasts over 2 mths so dosent work out that expensive
 
I had 5 horses and I put them all on TS, about 5 days later my yearling took to trying to box with anyone who went near him, my old tb mare had always suffered from separation anxiety (but only if left totally alone) went berserk if I took just 1 horse out of the field, the broodmare barged through the gate every time it opened and the 2 TB's did unspeakable things which resulted in me meeting the ground in various unpleasant ways!

I stopped feeding it and they all returned back to normal, the sceptic in me had to try it again few weeks later just to be sure..... it was definitely the top spec!!! :-O
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That has well and truly put me off trying anything else!
 
If you do want to feed a regular balance TS does seem to suit a lot of horses, obviously not all, but not many go off their rockers on it. Blue Chip is really high in starch so I'd not touch it personally. I do think cutting out starch is the single best thing you can do for your horse's diet.
 
Really interesting to read this.

My boy is on TS lite balancer.

He gets very nervy/spooky and runs off (not quite bolting) but he used to be such a laidback lad :(

I now wonder if the TS isn't helping him....
 
I am reading this post with such interest. I must say I am a feed merchants 'dream buyer' as I buy into all of their marketing.

Oberon, you mentioned on my post regarding my pony about the feed and the more you are saying the more I think how ignorant I am which is very scary.

Oberon, I know you probably cannot say too much, but not sure if you minded either pm'ing me or post if you can regarding what feed you would suggest as I am worried I have got it all wrong. :confused:
 
I use TopSpec for a somewhat excitable stress head DWB mare, and a very sensitive, sugar intolerant, IDxTB mare. Both are doing well on it. They get only that and a handful of Hi Fibre Lite (as it holds the Devils Claw and Milk Thistle better).

The ponies have Baileys Lo Cal Balancer, as need to keep an eye on their weight.

No other feed, other than grass (out 24/7 majority of the time), and ad lib decent hay when they're in.
 
Guignol said:
I am reading this post with such interest. I must say I am a feed merchants 'dream buyer' as I buy into all of their marketing.

Oberon, you mentioned on my post regarding my pony about the feed and the more you are saying the more I think how ignorant I am which is very scary.

Oberon, I know you probably cannot say too much, but not sure if you minded either pm'ing me or post if you can regarding what feed you would suggest as I am worried I have got it all wrong. :confused:
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If you have a look at your other thread...it's all there;)
 
Question for y'all - What EXACTLY are you trying to achieve by paying money for a balancer? What are you balancing exactly?
 
I don't think the name balancer is anything to do with why people buy it (and at least in the States where they started I think, they were aimed at least at hay or alfalfa based diets so they did balance the diet to a certain extent). People feed them because they are effectivley a pelleted multi vitamin in a protein base - the big benefit I think most of us find is that they can be fed year round, with the added energy/condition component of the diet being varied with less risk of underfeeding certains nutrients if decreasing rations, the big issue with feeding "one bag" feeds. They are not the solution to all ills, but they do make feeding more logical than simply choosing a bag of feed and adding a chaff, which is how many of us used to feed in the not so distant past.
 
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