Feed balancers, are they really required (summer)

[equidstar11]

Hi all, new account, long time lurker.

I have spent all winter individually balancing my hay based off an analysis by Forageplus (things like copper, zinc, seaweed, phosphorus, selenium, glutamine, methionine, alcar, vitamin e, lysine, mag ox, yea-sacc)… that I was feeding alongside some pea protein, micronised linseed, speedi beet and my own mix of oily herbs (oregano, rosemary, thyme, nettle), plus some aloe vera juice.

They were in with daily arena turnout with hay until very recently thanks to the atrocious weather and our very wet soil. This winter we will be building an outdoor turnout area for them so my poor arena doesn’t get a hammering again.

They are back out now (mostly 24/7, sometimes in at night with hay depending on weather). Our fields are lovely welsh meadow type, not fertilised, variety of grass/flowers and all are lined on at least 2 sides with hedges (which I do see them nibbling on!)

They spent all winter pretty much off work - but are now coming back into work. I plan to keep them with small feeds for their supplements, eg plain grass chaff before work and then a small feed of speedi beet, linseed, pea protein, oily herbs & aloe.

My question is around feed balancers - of course my hay was ‘out of whack’ according to the analysis (which is cut off of my own fields by the way), so my grass might also be - but it is fairly expensive to keep up, costing well over £250+ per month just on feed/supplements… Is this level of balancing ACTUALLY necessary or do we just over-analyze these days? I can’t say if I’ve noticed any difference in them, I just felt better knowing they were ‘balanced’ as such.

Last summer they did both get blonde tips on their dark mane/tails so I assume some copper/zinc type balancing would be useful - but I’m not sure I can sustain this cost! I feel it would could be better put towards some more frequent physio treatments etc… (I know both could be nice in an ideal world, but life is EXPENSIVE)!

For more info, 2x warmbloods, 16.2hh ish, one younger, one mid aged, both barefoot for life, not footy at all etc. One was hair tested for PSSM2 and is Px/Px (no symptoms, no other variants), I’ll keep him on Vit-E for this as a precaution but as far as I’m aware, Px is calcium channel related and doesn’t follow other PSSM2 variants exactly in terms of management.

Before getting the hay analyzed I used FP Hoof & Skin / Performance which works out as around £60 each a horse/£120 (more expensive), without the additional linseed/protein on top (which is about £80 a month using charnwoods/fp topline plus).

Any views around this? Do I really need to be adding all of the individual minerals? What do you do for your horses?

Much appreciated!

 

[AppyLover1996]

I used to throw everything but the kitchen sink at my veteran pony when I first got him (the joys of being an excited new horse owner!) and slowly over time I've learnt what he needs and what was just being peed out. Personally I don't feed balancers as I'm on a livery yard so not overly sure what I'd be balancing and I don't want to risk causing issues, so I figured it's safer to not feed a balancer.

Instead I feed some herbs (liquorice, brewers yeast, rosehips, magnesium oxide, garlic and ginger root) and these are mainly for his issues (PSSM Type 1, gastric ulcer prone, arthritic changes in hocks and has asthma). My yearling also gets the same herbs but in his case these are more for prevention than cure, and I figured seeing as herbs are natural I'm less likely to potentially cause any issues. Both my horses are regularly seen by vets and nutritionists and have their diets updated as and when needed. In terms of hard feed I feed alfalfa pellets, a good quality grass chaff, some linseed oil and top it up with micronised linseed if needed in the winter. I also give vitamin e to help with the oil levels - I don't feed mases of oil but like to be safe, and my PSSM lad is better with vitamin e. The grazing at my yard is good quality and both my lads have ad lib forage when stabled. I often give a bucket of low calorie chop for them to munch on if they feel like it when they are stabled/ tied up - they pick at it but never leave empty buckets of chop in the morning, the chop I give as a preventative in case they somehow manage to eat all their ad lib forage as I don't want the risk of ulcers (for the record they've NEVER finished all their ad lib forage and I often find they have plenty left over).

I do think a less is more approach with horses but am aware it doesn't always work for everyone - however feed companies are very clever with their marketing and making us owners feel guilty that something could be wrong with what we are doing.....I'm of the school that if your horse needs it you give it, but if you think your horse doesn't need it, it might be worth cutting out (providing no detrimental effects are at risk to the horse) and seeing if there is any difference as it could simply be a very clever marketing ploy to make you feel better.

 

[Fieldlife]

I would always add basic vitamins and minerals

Zinc, copper, magnesium, (sodium - salt), selenium
Vitamin E if no access to grass

The rest IMO is more optional according to needs.

Extra essential amino acids if grass / hay not good or not building muscle naturally
Gut support - pre / pro biotic - if not thriving with good behaviour and good feet

 

[UKa]

I just asked this a nutritionist they said yes balancer or multi vitamins and minerals as grazing is not covering all nutrients required

 

[SEL]

I think it depends on how they are feeling. Definitely salt, but if energy levels aren't up to the work then I'd add a general purpose balancer which might be cheaper for you.

 

[Patterdale]

I have never fed balancers, just a field lick. All mine generally look and feel great (well, I currently have 2 lame but that’s not due to no balancer!).

 

[Cloball]

Trying to get her to eat any bucket food in the summer is a challenge how much salt are people adding?

 

[mini-eventer]

Mine look amazing at the moment, coats gleaming. They get a handful of nuts and adlib haylege/grass I never feed a balancer. I do feed a higher spec vitamin/mineral supplement over winter with decent vitamin E when they don't have grass. In the summer I just feed a cheapie vit/min mix.

A lot of it is marketing,

 

[SEL]

Trying to get her to eat any bucket food in the summer is a challenge how much salt are people adding?

Tablespoon a day unless I've ridden and they've sweated a lot in which case more. Salt block in shelter too.

 

[GrassChop]

I don't feed a balancer. I always just thought that they should get mostly what they need from the grass, hay/haylage, hedgerows, nettles, cleavers etc all in their field and whatever they get from their "fully balanced" feeds but not fed at recommended rates.

I also give 50g salt.

 

[dreamcometrue]

If you have an ems horse and feed them soaked hay then yes, balancers are required, especially in summer when access to grass is limited.

 

[dixie]

Mine look amazing at the moment, coats gleaming. They get a handful of nuts and adlib haylege/grass I never feed a balancer. I do feed a higher spec vitamin/mineral supplement over winter with decent vitamin E when they don't have grass. In the summer I just feed a cheapie vit/min mix.

A lot of it is marketing,

Same here almost.
I’ve always just fed chaff and nuts plus vit and mins from my hacking horse to my eventing horse.
Apart from one horse who was very grumpy and I tried all sorts.

 

[lynz88]

I think it's highly individual including what they have access to. Back home, I would not feed a balancer as was not needed. Here, is a completely different story. Even different yards may require different approaches.

 

[slimjim86]

This is the first year that my fatty is getting balancer in the summer too but we are so stingy on her grass levels and haven't had the hay analysed so just feel better "topping her up", it may be a waste of money but it won't do her any harm and I feel better that she has it. If she wasn't such a good doer and was on good grass then I wouldn't bother.

 

[Irish-Only]

Hay and a vit/min supplement plus a bit of salt. Mine are shiny and well. But, I’m sure if I sent the hay for analysis I would be advised that they are deficient in something or other.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Our grazing is generally quite poor and one of ours did show a deficiency at some stage. With that in mind we feed a vit and mineral powder (alongside quality hay as needed). Our EMS mini gets a pelleted balancer.

 

[meesha]

I leave a large yellow block lick out. They are on grass and hedgerow with a bit of haylage from elsewhere (so hopefully a mix of grasses/nutrients).

Both look v healthy, bay has dapples and pony is shiny . When I first put it down pony used the lick loads (from a rescue) but now they both occasionally have a go but not often. One lick has lasted whole winter on yard under cover.

Rockies salt lick "Suitable for all stock, these licks offer a balanced formulation of minerals and trace elements, including cobalt for correct rumen function and production of vitamin B12, "

 

[tda]

I leave a large yellow block lick out.

Rockies salt lick "Suitable for all stock, these licks offer a balanced formulation of minerals and trace elements, including cobalt for correct rumen function and production of vitamin B12, "

That's interesting as I always thought the yellow and red ones were for sheep or cows, but had a look on Rockies website and the are now also branded for horses , ommiting the ruminant comment but including the b12 comment
I have previously stuck to the white ones or the Himalayan rocksalt

 

[Green Bean]

I feed a balancer which includes other things for gut health. I have a very fussy horse who goes mental on any other brand of feed except the one I have her on. I am not a 'balancer' person but had no choice as I had exhausted all other balanced feeds in the range from this brand. I have just kept it constant winter and summer but have reduced the HiFi and Linseed Meal. I feed around 10-15 ml salt a day - I got to this by asking the feed brand what amount of salt was in their feed so top up to daily requirements. I have a Himalayan salt lick in the stable but don't believe my horse actually touches it, but it is there in case she does decide she needs more salt.
Other than the above, I also add fennel seeds (I believe this assists to try and prevent colic) and glucosamine as preventative supplements.
I don't have an analysis of hay, haylage and grass so pretty much go on what the horse looks like and acts

 

[SantaVera]

I don't think they are required unless the horse has a lot of straight cereals and is in hard work like three day eventing or hundred mile endurance rides. Hay grass and salt is all that most require.

 

[Cortez]

I have fed tailored vits and mins (mostly mins), when I had a stud farm in a high molybdenum area, but would only ever do so after proper forage and soil analysis. I haven't had to feed additional stuff for more than 25 years. Most don't need it, and there's more of a problem with over-supplementation than the opposite (according to vet friend). Waste of money, but very good for feed companies.

 

[PurBee]

It does depend what the state of your grass is. Is it actual leafy green, strong field of thick grass or is it an overgrazed paddock of light green very short grass thats patchy and poor?

If the former, you can likely ditch the protein and certainly the linseed as the omega 3 is plentiful in rich deep green grass. Magnesium is also plentiful in deep green grass, and lacking in pale, over-grazed grass.
They’ve got access to hedgerows too - and fresh grass, so its likely you can ditch the oily herbs for the summer too.

Try trimming your feeds down to a basic min/vit mix - if coat pigment was an issue last year, i’d stick with something with copper/zinc in it.

Add back in whatever is needed if/when symptoms present.

 

[Cortez]

It does depend what the state of your grass is. Is it actual leafy green, strong field of thick grass or is it an overgrazed paddock of light green very short grass thats patchy and poor?

If the former, you can likely ditch the protein and certainly the linseed as the omega 3 is plentiful in rich deep green grass. Magnesium is also plentiful in deep green grass, and lacking in pale, over-grazed grass.
They’ve got access to hedgerows too - and fresh grass, so its likely you can ditch the oily herbs for the summer too.

Try trimming your feeds down to a basic min/vit mix - if coat pigment was an issue last year, i’d stick with something with copper/zinc in it.

Add back in whatever is needed if/when symptoms present.

Without a proper analysis, none of that^^^is a reliable guide.

 

[Fieldlife]

I have fed tailored vits and mins (mostly mins), when I had a stud farm in a high molybdenum area, but would only ever do so after proper forage and soil analysis. I haven't had to feed additional stuff for more than 25 years. Most don't need it, and there's more of a problem with over-supplementation than the opposite (according to vet friend). Waste of money, but very good for feed companies.

Yes I was in an area of very high Iron and manganese and had a tailored approach to try and balance this.

I think it depends, lots of feed companies sell supplements with things horses dont need extra added e.g. iron, which is not benefiting. Selenium is needed but too much is toxic so dont want multiple supplements / feeds adding selenium.

BUT AFAIK - most UK grazing will be low in Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc, Copper, so for best performance you would want to top those up in some form. An analysis is the best approach. But having done a number of hay and grass analyses over locations and fields and years, I am now happy to take a more standard approach. I found with analysis it is often highly variable, one field to next, and hay comes typically from more than one field as well. An umbrella calculation makes as much sense.

And if you feed low protein hay and low protein grass which is pretty common in my area, and have a working horse, you might need to supplement protein.

 

[Fieldlife]

It does depend what the state of your grass is. Is it actual leafy green, strong field of thick grass or is it an overgrazed paddock of light green very short grass thats patchy and poor?

I have been really working on trying to improve my grass sward health, and doing rotational grazing, whilst trying to improve the resting areas. My horse however is VERY annoying. He overeats the short light green grass (which I think is too sweet). And mostly ignores the darker thicker stronger longer grass areas. I end up having to move him on to next rotation before he over grazes the short light green areas. I am trying to strim the long dark areas after grazing, and encourage more consistent growth across the area.

 

[PurBee]

Without a proper analysis, none of that^^^is a reliable guide.

I’ve never yet seen a hay/grass analysis lab offering generic testing to include omega 3.

Science is a reliable guide, and in the plant world, where there is the pigment green, there is chlorophyll. The molecular structure of that green photosynthesising pigment has magnesium (Mg) at the centre. If there’s deep green there’s magnesium. Fact. No dispute. All chlorophylls of which there are several have a magnesium molecule at their centre.
Hence why pale green/yellowish grass lacks has a lot less chlorophyll molecules than deep green grass, and thus has a lot less magnesium than deep green grass.

Where there is chlorophyll we have chloroplasts within plants and its within those structures that fatty acids are synthesised. A-linolenic acid omega 3 in grass is more plentiful the more healthy chloroplasts in the plant. Pale grass has less, so less ALA omega 3.

Where there is chlorophyll we have that molecule embedded in proteins - hence why we know deep green plants have more protein than pale green plants.

The 3 nutritional aspects go hand in hand, knowledge of which can therefore be visually seen in a field. Where theres deep green in plants there’s protein, magnesium and ALA, and there will be less of these nutrients in pale greeny yellow overgrazed grass.

 

[Fieldlife]

I’ve never yet seen a hay/grass analysis lab offering generic testing to include omega 3.

Science is a reliable guide, and in the plant world, where there is the pigment green, there is chlorophyll. The molecular structure of that green photosynthesising pigment has magnesium (Mg) at the centre. If there’s deep green there’s magnesium. Fact. No dispute. All chlorophylls of which there are several have a magnesium molecule at their centre.
Hence why pale green/yellowish grass lacks has a lot less chlorophyll molecules than deep green grass, and thus has a lot less magnesium than deep green grass.

Where there is chlorophyll we have chloroplasts within plants and its within those structures that fatty acids are synthesised. A-linolenic acid omega 3 in grass is more plentiful the more healthy chloroplasts in the plant. Pale grass has less, so less ALA omega 3.

Where there is chlorophyll we have that molecule embedded in proteins - hence why we know deep green plants have more protein than pale green plants.

The 3 nutritional aspects go hand in hand, knowledge of which can therefore be visually seen in a field. Where theres deep green in plants there’s protein, magnesium and ALA, and there will be less of these nutrients in pale greeny yellow overgrazed grass.

As a biochemist by training, I am happy with your explanation. Though my horse actively avoids eating the deep green grass even though there is plenty in the field so it doesnt help him much!

 

[PurBee]

As a biochemist by training, I am happy with your explanation. Though my horse actively avoids eating the deep green grass even though there is plenty in the field so it doesnt help him much!

Your horse is likely addicted to all the ‘survival’ nutrition that is held by plants in the lower portion of the stem/nodes/crown. Its the pantry of a plant and helps it to produce growth.

The trouble is, when that lower first node is eaten off, the plant will then use nutritional reserves in its roots to try to regrow - this means the roots shrink, become less deep and strong in the soil, the ground becomes more easily poached as the grass roots are weak and shallow. Deeper roots mine deeper minerals in the soil, grasses are more nutritious overall.
Shallow rooted short grass can only mine topsoil minerals.

The deep green long grasses has plenty of nutrition spread along its length of leaf, but i suspect that the lower 1” shaft nutrient stores are for a horse like eating candy compared to eating long grass ‘vegetables’.

If you are able to strip graze he’d have to eat his veg!

Here’s some grass root pictures that really help show what resting grass and overgrazing can do:

 

[Fieldlife]

Your horse is likely addicted to all the ‘survival’ nutrition that is held by plants in the lower portion of the stem/nodes/crown. Its the pantry of a plant and helps it to produce growth.

The trouble is, when that lower first node is eaten off, the plant will then use nutritional reserves in its roots to try to regrow - this means the roots shrink, become less deep and strong in the soil, the ground becomes more easily poached as the grass roots are weak and shallow. Deeper roots mine deeper minerals in the soil, grasses are more nutritious overall.
Shallow rooted short grass can only mine topsoil minerals.

The deep green long grasses has plenty of nutrition spread along its length of leaf, but i suspect that the lower 1” shaft nutrient stores are for a horse like eating candy compared to eating long grass ‘vegetables’.

If you are able to strip graze he’d have to eat his veg!

Here’s some grass root pictures that really help show what resting grass and overgrazing can do:

View attachment 140416
View attachment 140417

thanks, yes I buy into all the grass length and root length stuff. My horse isnt entirely convinced though.

I dont strip graze. I do have an outside perimeter track and 5 internal grass paddocks that are not very big that I rotate. I do graze 1 paddock and rest the other 4 on continual rotation. I dont quite achieve consistent beer bottle height in my rotations, though some of my grass gets that tall. And rotating does IMO enable much better grass growth than grazing the whole lot as can stop it getting so short, so it recovers faster. .

I could strip graze the paddocks in theory. But he wouldnt then have a grass space to use aside from the track? And I am not sure I would make him eat the long grass, he nibbles grass blades on the track and has access to haylage 24-7 too. I think he'd just eat more short grass on the track and still not graze down my longer grass. I also think strip grazing might result in him grazing the short sweet grass in the strip even shorter and it taking even longer to recover? Dunno.

What I want is longer grass, better sward, better soil and drainage for winter. But I dont have quite enough land to rotate and rest enough.

 

[Cortez]

I’ve never yet seen a hay/grass analysis lab offering generic testing to include omega 3.

Science is a reliable guide, and in the plant world, where there is the pigment green, there is chlorophyll. The molecular structure of that green photosynthesising pigment has magnesium (Mg) at the centre. If there’s deep green there’s magnesium. Fact. No dispute. All chlorophylls of which there are several have a magnesium molecule at their centre.
Hence why pale green/yellowish grass lacks has a lot less chlorophyll molecules than deep green grass, and thus has a lot less magnesium than deep green grass.

Where there is chlorophyll we have chloroplasts within plants and its within those structures that fatty acids are synthesised. A-linolenic acid omega 3 in grass is more plentiful the more healthy chloroplasts in the plant. Pale grass has less, so less ALA omega 3.

Where there is chlorophyll we have that molecule embedded in proteins - hence why we know deep green plants have more protein than pale green plants.

The 3 nutritional aspects go hand in hand, knowledge of which can therefore be visually seen in a field. Where theres deep green in plants there’s protein, magnesium and ALA, and there will be less of these nutrients in pale greeny yellow overgrazed grass.

View attachment 140415

Funnily enough I know all that, thanks. But you'll still need a forage and soil analysis to know what is going into your horse.