Feed for laminitic/metabolic syndrome horse

blackcob

blackcob

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Are there any that don't contain alfalfa? Horse in question is allergic to alfalfa (comes out in itchy hives and dandruff). Alternative is Baileys Lo-Cal and unmolassed sugarbeet like Kwik Beet but that will work out twice as expensive as one of the premixed feeds.

Dengie Healthy Hooves and Spillers Happy Hoof both out. Does Dodson and Horrell Safe and Sound contain alfalfa? I can't find the ingredients online.
 
I use rinsed speedibeet with minerals, vitamin E and ground linseed. My pony is on a soaked hay diet.

I believe fast fibre is very palatable and suitable.
 
She was previously bedded on oat straw (now on shavings as vet recommended conforming bedding, on total box rest) and won't eat it. Won't eat soaked hay either (believe me, I've tried!) but is on weighed amounts of dry in a small hole net.

Will look at Fast Fibre, thank you. :)
 
I found this yesterday.. It's just a mix of hay and straw chop..

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Baileys Lo Cal is really good, I've used it for many years although currently trying alternatives like Pro Hoof, but TBH, they look better on Lo Cal.
However, are you sure there's no Alfalpha in Lo Cal ? Baileys do use it in their feeds, so might be worth checking.

Fast Fibre is free of alfalpha though.
 
blackcob said:
Does Dodson and Horrell Safe and Sound contain alfalfa? I can't find the ingredients online.
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No, it doesn't contain alfalfa. I use it for all of mine as I can't feed alfalfa to my TB as it makes him vile and the others are live-on-air types that simply don't need it, not even when they are in reasonable work.

I have to say that I am becoming unconvinced about the feeding of alfalfa even though I have done it for many, many years.

IMO it is a real shame that all the Dengie products contain alfalfa as I particularly like their molasses free range.
 
Have you considered adding cinammon to the feed?

I spoke at length to the diet specialist at Liverpool regarding my EMS shettie. She said that Cinammon has been known to help diabetics (humans) and had had some success with equines although no clinical studies have been done.

I started adding it to the shetties feed last year, he was suffering low grade lami due to the EMS, popped him onto the cinammon and he was sound within 2 weeks. I continued for a couple of months and took him off it, but if he ever looks a bit footie, hot hooves,or spring grass coming through he is straight back on it - he smells lush after his feed!
 
I feed my laminitic prone mare soaked hay and fast fibre. I used to feed her speedi beet but she stopped eating it so changed to fast fibre and she loves it.
 
Another one for Fast Fibre. I believe Magnesium Oxide is good for laminitics.
 
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stimpy said:
That's interesting. How much do you feed?
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I feed the 230kg shettie about 10ml...he was on MagOx for several months before starting on the cinnamon but this didn't touch his lami.

>>>

Cinnamon may help Horses with Equine Metabolic Syndrome / horses prone to laminitis and aid weight loss along side a restricted diet.

It is believed it may help in the lowering of blood sugar levels,improves glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity Methylhydroxy chalcone polymer (MHCP), a compound in cinnamon, makes cells more responsive to insulin by activating the enzyme that cause insulin to bind to cells and by inhibiting the enzyme that blocks this process.

The research has been carried out on humans showed that cinnamon significantly reduced blood sugar levels in people with type-2 diabetes

The trial involved 60 people with type-2 diabetes, given either cinnamon or a placebo.

After 40 days those on cinnamon showed reduced fasting levels of serum glucose by as much as 29% (Khan et al 2003).

Cinnamon is used in herbal wormers and believed to be a powerful antioxidant.

Feeding guidelines: 10ml (2 teaspoons) - 250kg

20ml (4 teaspoons) - 500kg
 
I don't think they recommend cinnamon now. I asked why and got this reply

"IR or Cushings horses generally have a problem with elevated insulin, but normal glucose levels. It has been found that the cinnamon can lower the glucose, but doesn't affect the insulin, so it's not much help, and can even be counter-productive (glucose too low). Seemed like a good idea at the time, but has been proved not so good!

In the occasional case where blood glucose us too high, temporary use of cinnamon might help. (but proper diagnosis and diet are paramount)".

I would join the Cushings and IR Group as they are a hive of advice and have files of articles.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

Feeds without alfalfa or molasses;

Fast Fibre
Unmolassed beet
unmolssed hay chaff
oat straw chaff (Pure feeds/Honeychop do them)

I would use them as a base with a mineral supplement to cover nutritional needs.

You need to ensure adequate intake of copper (insulin production and control), zinc (hoof quality), magnesium (hoof and muscular health) and vitamin E (deficient in IR horses)....and I wouldn't trust bagged 'complete' feeds to provide enough to be helpful.
 
Oberon said:
I don't think they recommend cinnamon now. I asked why and got this reply

"IR or Cushings horses generally have a problem with elevated insulin, but normal glucose levels. It has been found that the cinnamon can lower the glucose, but doesn't affect the insulin, so it's not much help, and can even be counter-productive (glucose too low). Seemed like a good idea at the time, but has been proved not so good!

In the occasional case where blood glucose us too high, temporary use of cinnamon might help. (but proper diagnosis and diet are paramount)".

I would join the Cushings and IR Group as they are a hive of advice and have files of articles.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

Feeds without alfalfa or molasses;

Fast Fibre
Unmolassed beet
unmolssed hay chaff
oat straw chaff (Pure feeds/Honeychop do them)

I would use them as a base with a mineral supplement to cover nutritional needs.

You need to ensure adequate intake of copper (insulin production and control), zinc (hoof quality), magnesium (hoof and muscular health) and vitamin E (deficient in IR horses)....and I wouldn't trust bagged 'complete' feeds to provide enough to be helpful.
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Thanks for that update, i will talk to them again when i am next up there for his check-up.

Totally agree diet and management is paramount ~ (he has already been diagnosed with EMS).
 
They didn't have Fast Fibre or Safe and Sound in stock but both Kwikbeet and the Baileys Lo-Cal balancer were on offer, £2 off each, so I ended up getting those anyway. :)

I have done some reading about cinnamon and I too came to the conclusion that it wasn't that helpful, the studies I found showed an improvement in humans but not necessarily in equines.

It all seems such a minefield, at the moment I'm panicking about whether we will ever be able to turn her out to grass again, this attack of laminitis happened following five months of no grass whatsoever (we don't have winter turnout, they're stabled at night and out on a large concrete yard by day with ad lib hay). They were due to go out 24/7 at the end of the month and we were planning to move to somewhere with 24/7 winter turnout too (I abhor the lack of winter turnout, it has always been limited but the total ban is a new development).
 
Dab said:
Thanks for that update, i will talk to them again when i am next up there for his check-up.

Totally agree diet and management is paramount ~ (he has already been diagnosed with EMS).
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Because EMS wasn't enough for you to worry about
lol.gif
.

There is also the herb Jiaogulan - which is a supply of nitric oxide (helpful to diabetics/IR)

Snippet of an article by Dr Kellon (shock horror - yes I KNOW she isn't the be all and end all of nutrition...before HHO gets themselves in a flap;)) that is in the Yahoo group database.

"Jiaogulan has some anti-inflammatory properties but compared to other medications and drugs they are relatively weak. Where it excels is in encouraging the production of a small molecule called nitric oxide, which is an important messenger/signal molecule whose
functions among other things is to maintain good circulation through the tissues, relax the blood vessels to allow flow. An initiating event in laminitis is severe constriction of the blood vessels and chronic laminitis has been shown to be associated with elevated levels of body chemicals, such as endothelin, which cause vessels to contract and shut down.

When you start Jiaogulan, if the primary cause of the pain is vessels being constricted the response is rapid (1 to 3 days) and very dramatic. If you also have actually damaged blood supply and good circulation is going to require that new vessels grow into the damaged area, it will take longer (one to several weeks). Another thing that can delay the response, even mean the horse may get dramatically worse for a few days before it gets better, is
smoldering abscesses. Even when responses aren't quick, you will still either see at least some improvement or stabilization to the point that you can stop the pain drugs like bute or banamine, which is a big step in the right direction because long term use of these can worsen circulation."
 
Do you need more than just the Lo Cal?

I ask because we have two retired ponies on it - one aged, prone to laminitis, now has mild Cushings. Both look good and both have a spring in their step :), which considering the old lad has four arthritic legs isn't bad going :)

Two mares in work are both on just a balancer, though the Top Spec one.
 
blackcob said:
It all seems such a minefield, at the moment I'm panicking about whether we will ever be able to turn her out to grass again, this attack of laminitis happened following five months of no grass whatsoever
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I was pondering this recently - horses acting like they've been on spring grass when they've been in all winter....the theory that makes sense to me is that there may be a hormonal aspect.

I would say that if you get the mineral balance right and keep the hind gut happy, you may find an increased tolerance to grazing.
 
I spoke to two nutritionists about my horse with very dodgy hooves..

Recommendations were that I shouldn't soak anything or feed more than 25% oat straw if I wanted to use that.. And hard feed to use a couple kg of alpha a per day with speedi beet or fast fibre with balancer and I shouldn't soak for more than 3-6 months at a time total duration and use a scoop of top chop/hay/oat straw chop with half scoop of balancer twice a day..

Also mentioned urea/creatinine blood tests to make sure he's metabolising protein properly..

The Lami trust said he could have a kilo of healthy hooves and alpha a oil with balancer and some grass..

There is so much advice and information out there..
 
She does need more than just a balancer, contrary to expectations for a laminitic/metabolic horse she's not fat and fairly swiftly losing weight on the box rest. As soon as she's sound she has to come back into hard work (recommended for the EMS, correct me if I'm wrong, all helps with uptake of glucose, lowering the blood sugar etc.) and will drop even more. :(

The vet did say he's already treating laminitic ponies who've only had very limited turnout but we're the only one who hasn't had any grass turnout at all!
 
I realise I'm getting slightly ahead of myself with the 'when she comes sound', she came near enough sound five days after it started, we had the shoe put back on then (had to come off for x-rays, vet suspected pedal bone fracture rather than laminitis) and 72 hours later she was the worst she'd ever been, went off her feet completely. It's been three days since then and she's still very lame, lying down during the day, rocking back/pointing etc. :(
 
Poor horse.. My lad is not overweight, on the too thin side of healthy really so working to maintain it..

All his X-rays over the last year plus have been done with his shoes or clogs on.. He's been virtually sound for a year but not in work due to pedal rotation..

Do horses get ridden worked with rotation? And I feel for your poor horse.. Mine doesn't get turnout but he's never been down with it.. Only my Shettie cross has ever been down and that was an abcess.. Did I miss your X-ray results or are they not posted?

Sorry if I'm being unobservant :/
 
Sorry, blackcob :(

I won't bore you with talking about peripheral loading onto an already weak laminae connection versus engaging the hoof mechanism via ground support to p3....as I'm sure your vet has told you the shoes are necessary :)
 
Absolutely essential that the shoe went back on, it just seems to have been the trigger for an additional episode - not the farrier's fault by any means, just an unavoidable trauma!
 
KSR said:
I spoke to two nutritionists about my horse with very dodgy hooves..

Recommendations were that I shouldn't soak anything or feed more than 25% oat straw if I wanted to use that.. And hard feed to use a couple kg of alpha a per day with speedi beet or fast fibre with balancer and I shouldn't soak for more than 3-6 months at a time total duration and use a scoop of top chop/hay/oat straw chop with half scoop of balancer twice a day..

Also mentioned urea/creatinine blood tests to make sure he's metabolising protein properly..

The Lami trust said he could have a kilo of healthy hooves and alpha a oil with balancer and some grass..

There is so much advice and information out there..
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Not having a go at you KSR I just want to point out some stuff you've been advised in your post.

Why not soak? My pony would be dead (pts from laminitis) if I didn't soak all her hay. I buy from a dealer in small amounts so can't test. The trouble with feeding straw is a) it can be high in sugars and b) it has very little nutritional value.
Laminitics (and all horses) need nutrients they just don't need too much sugars and high starch.

Alfalfa (and preservatives) is not suited to many EMS or laminitic horses.

Just because 'experts' say something is suitable it doesn't mean it is for your horse. Please everyone watch your horses responses to dietary changes carefully and jiggle according to what the horse says.
 
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