feed for weight gain...

[coss]

but no cereals or oil ...

Wondering what people use for weight gain? Horse is intolerant to (soya) oil and think he may be intolerant to cereals as well (though no conclusive evidence yet).
Worried to try other oil as he has a bad reaction to soya oil that requires a vet.

 

[whirlwindhorses]

Speedi beet and Alfa A is good.

 

[coss]

Speedi beet and Alfa A is good.

that's the current diet

 

[minniemouse]

Grass! if you haven't got decent grazing then grass nuts, readi grass etc , adlib hay/haylage, pre/probiotics to ensure the gut working properly and a good balancer (equilibra is fab). hope this helps.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Speedi beet and Alfa A is good.

^5 to this .

Also Vegetable oil is good to add to the feed. If it is feasible maybe three feeds a day. Last one around 9 pm , add lib hay and haylage .

I use cereals but as you said no cereals I would suggest the above and see if it helps. If not try something else . You need to give it time before trying new things to give them a chance .

 

[coss]

very wary about using oil as in original post.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

very wary about using oil as in original post.

My mare is on box rest - she has gone to *lean* condition .
My vet suggested I put her on soya oil which I did and saw an improvement even after half a day.

Vet now says I can introduce vegetable oil as well to help her gain condition.

each to their own

 

[sonjafoers]

How about adding TopSpec cool condition cubes to the current diet - cereal free

 

[BethH]

Allen & Page fast fibre, only 8% protein so adds bulk with no tizziness. My horse can't eat haylage, mix or anything with sugar without turning into a neurotic loon, this worked brilliantly when he lost some weight at the start of the year.

He is a good doer who has never looked poor, I always panic about giving him anything but good quality basics as he completely over reacts to any feed change however small, but lack of grass meant he was starting to look quite tucked up and lost a lot of weight in a very short space of time. Extra hay didnt help, a friend recommended the above and now half the yard I'm on are converts too! He looks very well on it and has energy with no nasty side effects.

 

[coss]

thanks
@Leviathan - i have used oil in the past for another horse but he really does react badly to it medically, i don't mind if it fizzes him up etc just doesn't work well in his system
@sonjafoers - will look into the topspec condition cubes
@BethH - i thought fast fibre was more for horses that couldn't eat fibre and as a sloppy chaff rather than a conditioning feed

He's on adlib hay and not touching it so obviously finding enough grass to keep content. Still full of energy and seems happy as larry!

 

[muff747]

Have you tried a little micronised linseed? The fats in that are supposed to be safer, safer for IR horses anyway. I'm sure the diet experts will chip in soon.
Good luck

 

[BethH]

I believe it can be used as a hay replacement, but it's like speedi beet in texture depending on the amount of water you put in and breaks down in about 30 seconds so you can easily get a handle on what texture you want. I add it to my boys hi fi lite and it seems to have helped him as well as a number of friends horses, at worst it won't do any harm as it is just fibre, but if you want to try something simple given your reluctance to feed oils and cereal it could be a low protein alternative you could try as it worked for my horse. The calm and condition is good too but is a higher protein value, depends what agrees with your horse.

 

[Beausmate]

Copra?

 

[LMR]

My horse is currently underweight and I have him on PureWorking (see the pure feed company) speedibeet and I have just started feeding him cool stance (copra meal).

He has put weight on being on the pure working and speedibeet. but feel he could do with a bit more which is why I have added the cool stance.

I would phone all the feed companies and see what they would suggest, there is a lot of feed out there that doesn't contain cereals now.

 

[popularfurball]

Micronised linseed

 

[Dab]

Micronised linseed

another vote for ^^^ this

 

[TarrSteps]

If the issue is with soya then you will have to be careful with many of the commercial "weight gain" formulations as it's quite a common ingredient now.

Have you tried any other oil products? How did your vet determine it was the oil itself he reacted to and not the soya? Oil is not, in itself a "product" merely a form of fat, which is present in all grains to some extent. Is there a risk he would react to ANY fat? That's going to be tricky! There are only a limited number of sources of calories and the thinking is now that many horses can't tolerate high starch diets well. I'd also be careful about using glucose or similar as too much of that can certainly have ill effects.

I've used corn oil successfully in the past, also vegetable oil although some people are leery of it now as it's pretty much always Canola based now and there is a theory some horses don't react well to that.

Grass nuts are an obvious option, although even some of those are not "just" grass to check accordingly. Also, some are quite high protein.

Personally, I'm a big rice bran fan, especially the if you either balance the Vit E or use something like EquiJewel. I've not yet had a horse react negatively to it, including a few super sensitive individuals. The "Allergic to Everything" horse ate Saracen Re-lieve (or whichever weird way they spell it) and a top up of rice bran this winter.

Whatever he's eating, is he eating enough of it to meet all his nutritional needs? With some feeds you have to feed a surprising amount to meet the RDAs. If I'm not feeding a sufficient amount I will top up with he Codlivine supplement, which is oil and grass meal based, for a sensitive horse, rather than a balancer with wheatfeed (and possibly soya) is it.

 

[popularfurball]

Sorry I also forgot something like pink powder / yea sacc might be the best investment first - useless pumping food in if the digestive systems aren't /can't use it properly

 

[coss]

If the issue is with soya then you will have to be careful with many of the commercial "weight gain" formulations as it's quite a common ingredient now.

Have you tried any other oil products? How did your vet determine it was the oil itself he reacted to and not the soya? Oil is not, in itself a "product" merely a form of fat, which is present in all grains to some extent. Is there a risk he would react to ANY fat? That's going to be tricky! There are only a limited number of sources of calories and the thinking is now that many horses can't tolerate high starch diets well. I'd also be careful about using glucose or similar as too much of that can certainly have ill effects.

I've used corn oil successfully in the past, also vegetable oil although some people are leery of it now as it's pretty much always Canola based now and there is a theory some horses don't react well to that.

Grass nuts are an obvious option, although even some of those are not "just" grass to check accordingly. Also, some are quite high protein.

Personally, I'm a big rice bran fan, especially the if you either balance the Vit E or use something like EquiJewel. I've not yet had a horse react negatively to it, including a few super sensitive individuals. The "Allergic to Everything" horse ate Saracen Re-lieve (or whichever weird way they spell it) and a top up of rice bran this winter.

Whatever he's eating, is he eating enough of it to meet all his nutritional needs? With some feeds you have to feed a surprising amount to meet the RDAs. If I'm not feeding a sufficient amount I will top up with he Codlivine supplement, which is oil and grass meal based, for a sensitive horse, rather than a balancer with wheatfeed (and possibly soya) is it.

vet has not diagnosed him as allergic to either oil or soya - i just noticed that soya oil meant vet had to come out even on minute amounts. So rather than having to get the vet out again I'll try to avoid both unless i have to go down the oil or soya route. He's a funny horse with his sensitivities going as far as brand by brand of "the same thing". Have upped the feed accordingly. He's still full of energy and sparkle so not overly concerned (yet). Main cause of weight loss has been the very warm day turning to bitterly cold/wet/windy night where he was shivering the next day (obviously upped rugging but didn't know it was going to be as bad )

 

[TarrSteps]

Out of curiosity, what reaction did he have? I've heard of a few horses not tolerating soya now and I know there certainly are people who react to it. (It's quite an interesting substance. Apparently it affects hormone levels, which is the basis for the theory that a high soya diet in a particular population might be a factor in breast cancer levels.) It's on my (long) list of things to avoid (if possible - easier said than done, now!) for Allergic To Everything Horse.

I don't think there's any reason to feed soya for weight gain - there are many tried and true alternatives! Fat is the most efficient way to pack calories in, especially for reactive horses, but if a horse reacts to oil presumably it will react to fat (although every feed has some fat . . .).

Is there anyway to increase his forage, especially in inclement weather? That is by far and away the easiest and most healthy way to keep horses warm, as they are "boilers" by nature and the act of digestion keeps them warm, not just the calories they consume.

I also have a dog that's gluten intolerant (I swear, they find me, I don't go looking for them) and she reacts in very specific but not necessarily obvious ways.

 

[fruity]

My filly was quite poor when i got her,she took a while to settle in and also had a injury not long after coming,after 3-4 wks she looked like a normal horse! She has speedibeet,alfa a,linseed powder,soya oil and youngstock mix. Def think the linseed powder really helped.

 

[coss]

he gets what i can only describe as feverish to begin with, really heating up and breaks sweat just standing but then he starts getting really itchy - you'd think he was being attacked by midges and he starts running round like an idiot but not in a playful way, its like he doesn't know where to put himself. stops and stamps and looks round almost colic like symptoms at that stage but not looking specifically at his belly, just looking round as if trying to find the attacker. he also gets really twitchy.
Rode him after he'd managed to get some soya oil once (less than a squirt as he'd licked the feed bucket it had been in after other horse had finished) and could feel it building up in him towards the end of the ride - could feel spasms going along his skin as if a fly had landed but it hadn't - then lots of stomping and itchiness.

 

[TarrSteps]

That sounds a pretty standard allergic reaction. My guess would be soya, in which case, as I said, commercial feeds need careful checking. I still stand by the feeling though that if you're going to avoid all fat sources you'll struggle to get enough calories into him without causing other issues. As you say, he's doing well on what he's on so surely the best plan would be more of the same?

 

[Goldenstar]

Haylage great for wieght gain and readigrass they love readigrass.
And of course grass the best conditioning feed.

 

[Goldenstar]

Can he cope with linseed ( micronised) .

 

[coss]

going to try micronised linseed - making sure i start him on a day where i'm at home to monitor! He doesn't like readigrass and can't eat haylage fast enough. takes him 2 weeks to get through a square bale adlib in bad weather. Goodness how long he'd take over it now the better weather is generally here!