Feeding a advice for a veteran losing condition and lacking energy

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I'll apologise now: this is gonna be long :)I'm looking for some suggestions on a suitable diet for my 20 year old. He's a 16.3 driving-bred KWPN and should be built like the proverbial brick outhouse. He's basically quite a heavy-looking Gelderlander-type. Weight tape puts him at 574kg currently, which means he has dropped more weight in recent weeks. Up until now, he has a been a VERY good doer and I have had to be very careful with his weight.

The problem is that he now has some age-related dental issues. At his six-monthly check earlier this year, two fractured teeth were identified and he was referred to the Bush to have them taken out of occlusion (basically filed down so he can't do any further damage/"grind" with them). At the time, he was shiny, healthy and probably a bit too fat.

I was warned by Prof Dixon at the hospital (I believe one of the top specialists in country) that he may lose a bit of condition in the winter, but he wasn't too concerned as he was looking fine back then. Nevertheless, I decided to buy some Fast Fibre in just in case when winter started and get him settled on it so that I could get some extra forage into him if necessary. Weight stayed fine over the summer and autumn and I'd say he has only started to drop over the last six weeks. His neck now looks pretty thin and he has lost a lot of condition behind :(

I started him on the Fast Fibre just as this weightloss began, I think, but only about 500g dry weight a day as a "feed" rather than a proper forage-replacer, IYSWIM. This is because his haylage (which for the past few years I've had to soak for 12 hours) was also upped significantly and I thought that would help. He's now on 2.5 large nets a night, which amounts to ad lib as there is a little left. He is out during the day in a field with little grass (this is because he has previously always been in with the "fatties" and is quite stressy at times, so I think moving herds/fields would be worse for him and to be honest, there's not much more grass in the other fields anyway) and YO does not wish to feed haylage in the fields this year. He is appropriately rugged and warm.

So he is currently out from 8-4 with grass, but not huge amounts of it, and in at night with ad-lib haylage. He gets 500g of Fast Fibre a day, along with 200g of microionised linseed and some biotin (he's barefoot). So he is losing weight and lacking in energy in the school. Admittedly, the latter is definitely NOT unusual for this horse - he always has done as little as he can get away with. I would have had the vet straight away if I thought there was anything underlying and it wasn't teeth-related. He is not quidding and managing to eat the haylage with no problems, but his droppings do have the telltale "long fibres" in them.He is due to go back to the hospital for a check-up next week and I will obviously ask for dietary help then - they have a nutritionist, I think, but I wanted to know if anyone has any ideas, suggestions or similar experiences? I am going to increase his Fast Fibre, but not sure how much to? It's a bit difficult as I think my yard (he's on part livery) are still slightly in the mindset that he's a good doer and are taking a while to adjust to the difference in him.

Thanks for reading and any help appreciated :)
 
Oops, forgot to say haylage is now being fed dry, obviously.
Also, he has been fed a relatively small amount of oats in the past for an energy boost and they didn't completely blow his brain, although he can be pretty spooky in any case when feeling well. I was wondering if it might be worth trying them again?
 
I have a 21 year old brood mare with the same problem - hers rather more so as she eats very little haylage. We feed her a proprietary mash (can't recall the name without checking the bags in the feed room) but they do a mainly fibre one plus a conditioning one. She has 3 mash feeds a day with added Baileys No 4 conditioning cubes (which are added to the warm mash to soften them!) She's stabled at night and goes out for a few hours during the day (but in the garden, where there's plenty of grass!) She's put on quite a lot of weight since we weaned her foal early a month ago (and is in foal again so I HAVE to get her weight up before foaling!) She also has a fair quantity of Grazon (which is pure grass) with a dash of coarse mix added for palatability, given AFTER the mash for her to eat at her leisure.
 
If he has done well on oats before, then would be worth trying them again. Also might be worth feeding a bucket of ready grass/just grass/ultra grass along side his haylage while your grazing is lacking.
 
We have our 40 year old poor doer on this lot, twice a day:

1/2 scoop fast fibre
1 scoop Allen & Page weight gain
and then she gets a fair amount of oats, barley and peas too

She generally keeps her weight with it, they don't have much grass atm but get pretty much ad lib hay.
 
I think most daily recommended amounts are rather excessive, however the 500gm you are giving your horse is the minimum daily amount recommended for a 200kg pony that is resting or in light work.
I would expect to give at least 1kg dry weight 3 times a day to a horse of his size that is working plus supplements as required, the linseed should help or give him a feed for weight gain, although I would start by increasing what he already gets if he is happy on it.
 
I feed my nearly 40 year old pony (who lives out 24/7) the recommended amount of Top Spec Senior balancer plus Top Spec Cool Condition cubes, a small amount of micronised linseed plus sugar beet. I make the evening feed up in the morning so it goes to a crumbly texture. He is dentally challenged too - our EDT sucks in through his teeth every time he comes out and says he can't understand why he looks so good!

He is fed twice a day and ignores any hay that is put out for his younger companions who are both 20......

I would recommend contacting any of the feed companies but found Top Spec particularly helpful.

The old boy has lost a little weight but no more than I would expect at this time of year.

Good luck and I hope you find something that helps.

I have spent the last 14 years trying to keep the weight off him and it is nice to be able to feed him in his twilight years.
 
We feed our veteran, who now loses condition easily, although she used to be very good doer, on soaked grassnuts, graze-on and speedibeet with linseed oil and a splash of molasses, with a carrot and an apple. She gets ad-lib haylage bu only eats about 6kg, so also has a trug of Graze-on as a hay-replacer. She is doing well on this regime A friend has just started feeding a similar diet to her hard-to-maintain ID and is pleased with the results so far.
 
can you not speak to the yard owner and say what has happened and that he needs to have haylage out in the field! I wouldnt be happy if my horses had nothing to eat out in the field! surely that will be better for him than extra feed!
 
Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate it and am taking the time to read through them all.

JanetGeorge - I am going to start looking into conditioning feeds, so thanks for the recommendations. The company that do the mash aren't Rowen something-or-other are they? It feels so wrong to be trying to pump food into this horse, it's so different to the way things were before!

PiebaldSparkle - good idea re the Readigrass. A while ago I had him on Simple Systems Green Gold, which I think is similar. But he was only on a handful to chuck his supplements in. Our yard has since changed their standard chaff to Hi-Fi, which I wasn't so keen on because it contains molasses and I was having problems getting his diet right for his feet. I could buy in some myself. With regard to oats, as a rough guide how much would you be looking to feed for a horse in relatively light work who needs condition and energy? He only ever got 1/2 a scoop before.

B_2_B - I am super impressed that you are keeping a poor doer twice his age successfully - that stuff must be good. I will get in touch with Allen & Page and ask about the Weight Gain. I am impressed with Fast Fibre, I have to say.

Tinselunicorn - thanks very much, I've sent you a reply :)

Be positive - yes, that's the thing, I certainly do need to up the amount and will be doing so from tomorrow :) he didn't really "need" it yet when I first started feeding it, so it was more just to get him used to it etc. he is a fussy boy when it comes to feed, unfortunately.

janietee_5 - another 40 year-old, wow. You must be doing something right! Good to know Top Spec are helpful, I will add them to my list of companies to speak to.

Pearlsacarolsinger - thanks also, it's really encouraging to hear success stories with this kind of thing. Seems adding something to substitute the lack of quality grazing (there is grass in field and they are eating, it's just not hugeamounts and will obviously be of little nutritional value just now) may be a good idea.

Kerrieberry2 - I agree with you :) but YO will not budge on this subject. Too much wastage, I think. The horses have also been given extra haylage rations in the stable to help compensate - he has ad lib when he is in, which is a positive.

Thanks again, everyone :)
 
I'm feeding a 27 yr old 17.2 TB who is a really bad doer on Alfa A, Allen and Page's weight gain and sugar beet - a good scoop of each twice a day, and a splash of vegetable oil. He has adlib hay too. He is active and happy, despite living out for the first winter in years (his owner's decision, not mine)
 
Christmas Puddock said:
I'll apologise now: this is gonna be long :)I'm looking for some suggestions on a suitable diet for my 20 year old. He's a 16.3 driving-bred KWPN and should be built like the proverbial brick outhouse. He's basically quite a heavy-looking Gelderlander-type. Weight tape puts him at 574kg currently, which means he has dropped more weight in recent weeks. Up until now, he has a been a VERY good doer and I have had to be very careful with his weight.

The problem is that he now has some age-related dental issues. At his six-monthly check earlier this year, two fractured teeth were identified and he was referred to the Bush to have them taken out of occlusion (basically filed down so he can't do any further damage/"grind" with them). At the time, he was shiny, healthy and probably a bit too fat.

I was warned by Prof Dixon at the hospital (I believe one of the top specialists in country) that he may lose a bit of condition in the winter, but he wasn't too concerned as he was looking fine back then. Nevertheless, I decided to buy some Fast Fibre in just in case when winter started and get him settled on it so that I could get some extra forage into him if necessary. Weight stayed fine over the summer and autumn and I'd say he has only started to drop over the last six weeks. His neck now looks pretty thin and he has lost a lot of condition behind :(

I started him on the Fast Fibre just as this weightloss began, I think, but only about 500g dry weight a day as a "feed" rather than a proper forage-replacer, IYSWIM. This is because his haylage (which for the past few years I've had to soak for 12 hours) was also upped significantly and I thought that would help. He's now on 2.5 large nets a night, which amounts to ad lib as there is a little left. He is out during the day in a field with little grass (this is because he has previously always been in with the "fatties" and is quite stressy at times, so I think moving herds/fields would be worse for him and to be honest, there's not much more grass in the other fields anyway) and YO does not wish to feed haylage in the fields this year. He is appropriately rugged and warm.

So he is currently out from 8-4 with grass, but not huge amounts of it, and in at night with ad-lib haylage. He gets 500g of Fast Fibre a day, along with 200g of microionised linseed and some biotin (he's barefoot). So he is losing weight and lacking in energy in the school. Admittedly, the latter is definitely NOT unusual for this horse - he always has done as little as he can get away with. I would have had the vet straight away if I thought there was anything underlying and it wasn't teeth-related. He is not quidding and managing to eat the haylage with no problems, but his droppings do have the telltale "long fibres" in them.He is due to go back to the hospital for a check-up next week and I will obviously ask for dietary help then - they have a nutritionist, I think, but I wanted to know if anyone has any ideas, suggestions or similar experiences? I am going to increase his Fast Fibre, but not sure how much to? It's a bit difficult as I think my yard (he's on part livery) are still slightly in the mindset that he's a good doer and are taking a while to adjust to the difference in him.

Thanks for reading and any help appreciated :)
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Have seen really good results on A&P veteran vitality
 
Fab, that's quite a few recommendations for A&P Veteran Vitality and Weight Gain, will need to get researching tomorrow.

Anyone got any recommendations for any large, sturdy feed buckets? Think for the quantities I'll be feeding now I'm going to need something of a decent size. Horse would just kill something like a tub trug...
 
Have you had him ACTH tested for Cushings? He's in the right age group and lethargy/weight loss are classic symptoms. Not all horses get the thick curly coat...there are a shedload of other symptoms that are indicative of Cushings.
 
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