Feeding a good doer

So saddened to hear that you are just mocking the suggestion to test for Cushings, christ it's not expensive, stressful or really that much of an inconvience to have him tested is it? The amount of vet visits he's had, he and you doen't seem the sort to try and avoid the vet (as in he doesn't seem phobic of the vet/ needles and you seem like a responsible owner).

He to me looks to be typical of a Cushings horse in the early stages, and if I take your guide and fill in my answers from when she was tested:

These are the symptoms of cushings.
◾heavy hair growth that may be curly and doesn’t shed normally NO
◾excessive sweating (including heat stress in hot humid conditions) NO
◾increased thirst and urination NO
◾muscle wasting NO
◾lethargy and poor performance NO
◾an increased susceptibility to infection (particularly sinusitis, teeth and hoof infections) NO
◾slow healing wounds NO
◾pot bellied NO
◾increased appetite NO
◾weight loss (which may be hard to detect under the curly coat) NO
◾Mucky eyes and sheath NO
◾Fat pads around the eyes, along crest of the neck, above the tail and in sheath area NO
◾Abnormal season or infertility in mares NO

So my horse had none of those symptoms, her only symptom was slight hoof sensitivity (masked by shoes but very evident when they were removed and just about perceptable to hoof testers). I am eternally greatful to my vet who felt something wasn't right and acted on it, although she was 20 (or there abouts) when tested I would never had said she looked like a cushings horse as I too just imagined the curly coat.

We actually think she's probably had cushings for a number of years before we tested when we looked back on it, but as it is only just becoming apparent that much younger horses can have the disease she was obviously only tested a couple of years ago.

So your horse has more symptoms of lethagy, poor condition (in the ribby and pot belly) and seems to carry weight in the suspect areas for a cushings horse, than mine did...

Back to your question of feeding, I feed my Cushings horse:
- Alpha A mollasses free
- Grass nuts
- Rolled oats (for condition and they are tummy and feet friendly)
- Micronised Linseed
- Riaflex (joint supplement)
- Pro-Earth's Pro-Laminea balancer

She was on three feeds a day and is now on just one after going out in the summer fields.

(and Ester how dare you say the joint supplement is expensive poop ;):D it makes me feel better anyway!)
 
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Sorry expensive poop that makes owners feel better


:p

I'd drop it to feed prascend any day if I couldn't afford both though.
 
ester said:
Sorry expensive poop that makes owners feel better


:p

I'd drop it to feed prascend any day if I couldn't afford both though.
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:D that's better and yes I agree about rather medicating than feeding something which may or may not work (placebo effect has been shown in pets has it not? Where the owner feels there is an improvement?).
 
I am another who would agree it might be worth the test just for peace of mind, horses are all so individual.

From the feeding point of view, my youngster is very similar in weight and behaviour to Bailey. Bit inclined to the tubby, very laid back and runs out of puff quite quickly but also very spooky. I now feed her a tiny bit of fast fibre, 4/5 grass nuts (they keep her happy) and 1/2kg of Copra Coolstance and Top Spec Calmer and Equimins Complete. She has ad lib hay during the day when she is in and she follows the other horses in paddocks so gets very little grass. Seems to suit her very well and interestingly I feed my daughters pony (who has cushings and is on 1/2 tablet a day) a bit of Copra too to give her the energy to keep up with rallies and stuff and it has worked well for her too.
 
applecart14 said:
Ok if its free then I will get it done but I know I am wasting my time with a cushings test.
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Apologies if my reply to ester's comment was misleading, tbe lab fees are free but you'd have to pay for the vet to come and take the blood.

applecart14 said:
But fine I will get it done if anything to prove that you are wrong and because I love my horse so much.
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I'm guessing from this that Cushings has been suggested before... If he were mine I'd get him tested, just so I had the fact that he doesn't have it down on his vet records and I could then proceed with trying to find a dietary solution to the problem I see rather than the potential unseen problem of Cushings. Compared to the daily cost of having a horse I think the cost of the test during the "discounted" period is a drop in the ocean, and well worth it just so you can rule it out - after all, if a horse bucked you off uncharacteristically you'd get its teeth, back and tack checked first.
But of course he's not mine and your course of action is up to you! :)
 
alexhyde said:
so saddened to hear that you are just mocking the suggestion to test for cushings, christ it's not expensive, stressful or really that much of an inconvience to have him tested is it? )
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i am not mocking it. It is not an inconvenience. I did NOT say it was, so stop trying to make me out to be the bad guy all the time. But i am still reeling from the vets three visits to my horse at the weekend resulting in the £500 bill that i have been left and am still worried sick about him without contemplating anymore vets visits or stress. I honestly thought I was going to lose him and I don't feel that we are quite out of the woods yet either.

So excuse me if i don't jump on the phone immediately. I will do it when i do it just leave it and stop nagging every five minutes. Please.... I have enough to cope with at the moment. I need to spend the next few weeks paying this bill off. I said I would do it. I will keep my word.
 
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applecart14 said:
i am not mocking it. It is not an inconvenience. But i am still reeling from the vets three visits to my horse at teh weekend resulting in the £500 bill that i have been left.

So excuse me if i don't jump on the phone immediately. I will do it when i do it.
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With respect I have seen it mentioned on previous posts well before this weekend. As someone who in the past year has spent well in excess of £1500 on vet bills for my golden oldie (and about the same again for my youngster), and would not hesitiate to have anything else investigated and treated if it will prolong and improve my horses quality of life, I do not find your attitude to it favourable sorry.

The test would be no where near that amount so I don't see it as all that relevent. You have posted complaining about symptoms which point to Cushings and have then shot any suggestion that it could be Cushings down, I just wonder what response you thought you'd get?
 
applecart14 said:

i am not mocking it. It is not an inconvenience. I did NOT say it was. But i am still reeling from the vets three visits to my horse at the weekend resulting in the £500 bill that i have been left and am still worried sick about him without contemplating anymore vets visits or stress. I honestly thought I was going to lose him and I don't feel that we are quite out of the woods yet either.

So excuse me if i don't jump on the phone immediately. I will do it when i do it just leave it and stop nagging every five minutes. Please.... I have enough to cope with at the moment. I need to spend the next few weeks paying this bill off along with my holiday installments that I am paying for each week. I said I would do it. I will keep my word.
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Honestly from the sounds of things and from what you've written before you've been through the wars with him and I don't blame you for being stressed. The horse isn't going to keel over from not having the test done immediately.

Take a deep breath and remember that everyone does things differently and in their own way. There's no right or wrong! It's evident that you care a lot about him.
 
I don't think anyone suggested it needed doing yesterday, when the vet is next in the vicinity would be fine! But it is something worth having an answer on before AC14 spends much other money on altering feeding etc as all that might be a losing battle.
 
ester said:
Sorry expensive poop that makes owners feel better


:p

I'd drop it to feed prascend any day if I couldn't afford both though.
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Prascend is all mine has in summer - she eats her feed like a good girl all through the winter, then as soon as the summer grass comes through she isn't interested. I'm lucky if she'll deign to sniff at a handful of chaff and last year she decided she didn't like polos anymore either, thank you very much. I have to shove the tablet into the corner of her mouth to get it down her! I'd like her to have a good vitamin and mineral supplement all year round, but I'm definitely fighting a losing battle! Re the cushings symptoms - the only ones my girl had were increased susceptibility to infection (she kept getting abscesses) and possibly slight loss of muscle tone, though it would have gone unnoticed if not for the abscesses.

_HP_ said:
Would a Cushing's test and medication be taken care of with insurance?
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Yes - my mare had hers covered for the first year (apart from the excess obviously)
 
Last time I had one tested I picked a free call out day and it cost me £40 ish. I'd printed out the voucher ready, but my vets didnt need it in the end as they routinely sorted out the free labs for cushings tests :)
 
My lad is very flattered to be called gorgeous.

I like the Spillers brand and used the slow response mix when the horse was at his peak in the show ring. Not being a greedy feeder he never consumed more than 1kg per feed, he was a good doer in his competitive years and remains a good doer in retirement. However if he was off colour or upset he went from impressive to pinched overnight. Throughout the years I have always kept good quality hay or haylage in front of him. As he would never eat enough to ensure the correct mineral balance I added Pro Hoof and linseed. If he was very busy and had overnight stays I used Equi Jewel in very small amounts. I found the Spiller Slow Response ideal for a show horse, he was sane and mannerly but could explode into a real gallop when asked, it also gave enough energy to get him around the occasional very big ring. He was kept fit though.

Despite being a good doer, there was never any point in using the empty calorie type feeds as he just didn't like them. At no point post testing for cushings did he show any form of lethargy, nor did he have any symptoms.

I really don't think any vet can claim that a horse does not have cushings by just looking at the horse. An educated guess can be made but only the blood test will give conclusive answers.

He has been on prescend for 4 years now, one pill daily until early summer last year when he went to 1 and a half pills daily following suffering a chesty cough that would not clear and awful LV on his white legs.

Believe it or not this is a picture of a cushings horse before being treated and found to have a high count. Never underestimate this god awful disease or its powers of destruction and suffering.

Leoretirestoday772012004.jpg


His diet today is a strange one. Obviously I have to aim for 10% or less. He has top quality haylage through the winter and lives out in a fashion. He is in a barn with a deep shavings bed on rubber, the door is open and he wanders out as he pleases. He has Happy Hoof with a sprinkle of warm dampened bran, Spiller light balancer, pro hoof and his pills in a carrot sandwich. Unorthodox I know but he looks magnificent at the moment and I have cut his hay back to almost nothing as there is now some grass in his paddocks. He was retested recently and had a count of 29, so we are in control at the moment. At 23 I just take everyday as a blessing, he is ridable but I prefer to just enjoy his company.

This is how he came out of winter, not great but ok.
DSCF0711_zpsdeee97c8.jpg
 
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Looks bloody great for 23 just out of winter. He is a credit to you.

As you say it can some times be impossible to spot a cushings horse without a blood test. Indeed last year mine displayed a range of mild symptoms & all together these were enough for me to get the test done. It was negative thankfully & the horse actually had a low grade virus.

Feeding is such an individual choice isn't it & I always think less is more. Good quality forage, a full complement of vits & mins & then you take if from there based on work being done. And good doers do tend to be laid back characters by nature always doing just enough.
Having a lazy large horse with a tendency for self harm I do feel for OP but as someone else has said, fitness is the key to improving a lethargic horse, always assuming there is nothing underlying mechanically or metabolically.
 
This is a 20yo TB horse who has been diagnosed with cushings for 5 years although suspect had it longer, retired since 13yo. He is not well controlled and had his first laminitis attack approx 3 months before that photo was taken (hence the scrubby paddock)

 
It might be worth changing mixes to sacren releve (not sure if you have bluegrass in England) as its low starch but gives my boy plenty of energy but not over the top. It would also help his gut :)

The arthri aid HA is meant to be very good for joints, could be worth a go :)

It would probably be a good idea to test for cushings just on the off chance that he does have it, there is every chance he doesn't have it as well. But I admit, I don't know a lot about cushings in horses, just used to the typical curly coat pony.
 
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