feeding a poor doer without feeding sugary rubbish

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Jesstickle

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It is winter now. I feel I have to finally face up to this fact. BH doesn't do well over winter. He looks fantastic on summer grass but as soon as the grass goes so does his nice chub and he goes all gangly again. He gets adlib haylage/hay but that isn't enough on it's own. Last year I fed him unmollased hifi, speedi beet and calm and condition. He did ok but wasn't spectacular.

So, I'm looking for a miracle cure that isn't covered in sugar or rubbish that will keep the weight on and his coat gleaming. Does such a thing exist?

I've been looking at simple systems grass pellets or whatever they're called. Are they any good? They say they're ideal for horses who do well on grass and then lose it in winter but is that really the case? They need soaking I think too which is a nuisance but I'll do it if it works.

All thoughts welcomed :)
 
I have one who is a bit of a pain to keep weight on and he gets as much haylage as he'll eat, for bucket feed he gets D&H 16plus mix, barley rings - soaked as he also decides he won't drink, unmolassed sugarbeet, alfalfa and the magic ingredient, NAF Pink Powder. It may not be to everyone's taste but it keeps him looking good.

If you only want to try one of those things make it the pink powder!
 
i have just starte feeding fast fibre to taz who within 2 weeks of being clipped and in a medium weight rug has dropped from being an over weight monster to being able to see his ribs which isnt good as the winter hasnt even started and he comes out looking like a skeleton on adlib anything :o

it seems to be doing well he has half a scoop of that some calm and condition and hi-fi with codlavine

im hoping this works as i dont want to put him on build-up again :o also barly rings work well but they do give them energy... well unless your taz were you stick him on race horse cubes and nothing happens :o

hope you find something!
 
I'd obv stick with ad lib haylge.

Simple systems grass nuts will be good, but you may as well just get generic grass nuts from your feed merchant as they will be a fraction of the price! As well as the calories, if your horse can go off a larger feed, these might be good as ours hoover them up! I would pick a fibre - so maybe grass nuts and unmolassed beet, then add oil. Microionized linseed is just fantastic stuff, they love the stuff, high in cals and much less processed than a liquid oil so you still get the benefits of the omega oils in it (can get a 20kg sack from charnwoods very reasnobly).

Can you feed twice a day, and have someone who is around the yard put a lunch time feed in too? Would help alot to get more cals in without over facing him.

Obv you want to rug enough to stop him needing to burn energy to stay warm, but do be wary of overdoing it so cals aren't burnt off while he is cooking either!
 
Right, I'm not sure if it is any use to you, but I haven't had a horse do badly on my diet yet :)
ad lib forage is the basis, hay or haylage depends what they prefer and then
grass chaff, so Readigrass, DH Just Grass, Badminton Supreme Grass or Graze On
Baileys lo-cal balancer
Baileys Outshine
Speedibeet or Kwikbeet
If they are poor doers and dopey to boot, I add whole oats to the mixture.

I can't be bothered with soaking nuts or messing about with supermarket oil, I have plenty of horses to feed and never enough time to do everything, so I like it simple and quick to do. Speedibeet is convenient, as I put it in the bucket to soak and by the time I have done haynets and waters, it is ready to use :)
 
j_t, should have said they were both on pink powder last year and don't plan to change tack on that front so will be going back in the bucket soon for the winter stint.

He is an absolute pig so can feed him as much as I like twice a day. I probably could persuade someone to take him lunch if it came down to it.

I can't ever find generic grass nuts at the feed store. Am I missing something? I can find high fibre cubes but they have other bits and pieces in too I think.

He loves readigrass so will try and up how much of that he gets too.

O and Martlin, love your description of poor doer and dopey to boot. Sums up my horse perfectly! :D
 
My mums horse is a poor doer, he's just not that interested in eating and is a picky eater, everything has been checked.

Some people swear by linseed, Alfa oil and kwick beet with a balancer but this doesn't work for my mums horse as he really isn't enthused with a bucket of Alfa and he won't eat oil suplements, he thinks they are yuck.

It's taken us a few weeks of playing with feeds we arent used to fussy eaters, my TB scoffs down anything.

In the end we have settled on spillers conditioning cubes as these aren't too high in starch or sugar, they are 20% which is much less than many conditioning mixes.

So we are trying these with just a double handful of Alfa A (although spillers also suggested their conditioning fibre) with as much linseed oil as he will tolerate and a balancer.

Not sure if it will work but can update you if it does?

We were going to try calm and condition but apparently the spillers cubes work better, we will see.
 
friendship estates do a grass nut, not sure what brand mine are (shall see if I still have the bag when I go down the yard), but they are about £7 for 20kg, just squashed grass, no rubbish!
 
My neices TB get ad lib hay and then twice a day gets a bucket with two stubbs scoops of chaff - unmolassed - with a mug od Coolstance. He takes forever to eat:rolleyes: but he will eat all of it - he gets fed first in the morning so by the time rugs etc are adone he is finished and ready to go out - he actually gets a bit more a night becasue it doesn't matter how long he takes:D

Came out of last winter well covered and shiny - is a typical TB who drops overnight:rolleyes: and is no more spooky than your average TB knobber.....:rolleyes::eek::D:D:D
 
Jess, if you like Alan and Page, they do a nice non heating flake called weight gain, it's really nice and you don't get the extra fizz. My last TB that was a poor doer had that, plus calm and condition - sad to say in those days tho we weren't advised to soak it!! and then a chaff. Since balancers have become more popular I started to use them.

The lads I have at the moment are good doers so live off a little hi fi light and low cal balancer with their other supplements, they are very shiny and healthy and no extra fizz.
 
My girl is on alpha a oil, speedibeet, grass nuts, midlins (wheat feed) and suregrow along with ad lib haylage and she is looking good on it.
 
Right, have ordered the little outshine as didn't want to buy a sack if the horse isn't going to eat it! Will give it a bash and see how we go.

Other wise will stick with unmollased hifi, speedi beet and grass nuts and see how we get on. First have to try and track down a grass nut that isn't insanely costly. Or perhaps I'll try and find unmollased alfa a but it seems to be insanely rare which is why I end up buying hifi.

Stupid question of the day coming up, it is a balancer too right? I don't need to feed pink powder and outshine? Baileys website say vitamins and minerals in the ingredients but doesn't list exactly which ones they are so I just want to double check :o
 
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if you feed the bailys to recommended levels then no need for a balancer/pink powder as your vit/min needs will be covered. If you feed it at lower levels then I would add a scoop of pink powder too. Unless your horse wolfs his food down, then I would be tempted to drop the hifi, if you are after weight gain then it is a bulky low cal feed that takes up space that could be used for something with a higher feed value. If that mix doesn't do it then I would add a slug of oil or cup of linseed - easy way to add a chock load of cals!
 
Oats.
I the same problem as you. TB didn't look to great coming out of winter. Was dopey, lazy. However would go MENTAL on any for on pasture mix, even pony nuts, they would just send her loopy and spooky.
Put her on oats and she had controllable energy, looked fantastic and kepy weight on. I fed the oats with speedibeet and alfa a original and limestone. Overnight I would leave her with a bucket of Redigrass to chomp on aswell as her hay/hayledge.
Mid winter on Oats she looked like this:
HPIM1633.jpg
 
jesstickle said:
Stupid question of the day coming up, it is a balancer too right? I don't need to feed pink powder and outshine? Baileys website say vitamins and minerals in the ingredients but doesn't list exactly which ones they are so I just want to double check :o
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No, outshine is not a balancer, but it is exactly what I was going to recommend to you.

Star couldn't have starch/sugar with her cushings, but was a poor doer (who hated being stabled) so I know this scenario all too well. I found the ideal solution for her was ab lib haylage obviously, Topspec (senior for her, 2 cups per day. I far prefer it to pp) with 1 cup a day of outshine and then I would suggest adding spiller conditioning fibre. You can get all of those from Highgate.
 
Puppy said:
No, outshine is not a balancer, but it is exactly what I was going to recommend to you.

Star couldn't have starch/sugar with her cushings, but was a poor doer (who hated being stabled) so I know this scenario all too well. I found the ideal solution for her was ab lib haylage obviously, Topspec (senior for her, 2 cups per day. I far prefer it to pp) with 1 cup a day of outshine and then I would suggest adding spiller conditioning fibre. You can get all of those from Highgate.
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That's interesting, how much a month did that cost roughly?
 
A lot! :o

Haylage all year round (as not really allowed any proper amount of grass) @ £34 a bale - lasting about 11/12 days in Winter, more like three weeks in mid Summer.

Topspec senior £42.95 @ 580gm per day = about a bag a month

Bailey's outshine £38.00 @ 265gms per day = about every 2 - 2.5 months

Conditioning fibre - depending on the time of year 1-2 bags a month @ £11.40 each.

Plus she was on pergolide. She was pricey to keep and incredibly tricky to keep content, but we felt she was worth it.
 
Ouch! LOl just curious as to the outshine - it's expensive but for 8-10 weeks looks like it is actually quite reasonable. Just wondering if it's worth swapping my suregrow for outshine?
 
Top spec conditioning cubes are great-no cereal,low starch,high fibre. I combine them with speedibeet,linseed & spillers conditioning fibre(& pink powders). My poor doer loves this combination & looks well on it. I don't like feeding him sugary,starchy crap as it sends him bonkers! Tried simple systems & found it a real faff TBH,also horse didn't even have the decency to eat it after all my faffing about! Ended up binning it all.
 
My 20yrs old poor doer is looking ace on (scoop = round scoop)

1+1/2 cups of VV (soaked with 5 cups of water)
1 scoop of alfa oil
1 measure (50ml) of linseed meal
1 scoop sugar beet
Twice per day and adlib haylege (4 nets perday in stabled and two at night if turned out)

and hes now if a fair amount of work, schooling and fast hacking :)

DSCF3765.jpg

DSCF3769.jpg

:)
 
jesstickle said:
I feed unmoilassed Degnie chaff to my boy in the summer, there is a low cal and one with alfalfa,
Now he is on beet,100gm linseed meal and a pet scoop of Mare and Youngstock, seems to be fine, it is cheap and he is in light work.
He does not seem to like grass or grass nuts, but he gets out every day.
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I'm just thinking about changing feeds too. I need low sugar too and Winergy have recommended their growth feed. It's a complete feed in one so no need to add any chaff as it is balanced so reduces any faffing about.
The only thing thats putting me off at the moment is price but I did really like using it with my last horse and had excellent condition without any nuttiness!
 
jesstickle said:
Right, have ordered the little outshine as didn't want to buy a sack if the horse isn't going to eat it! Will give it a bash and see how we go.

Other wise will stick with unmollased hifi, speedi beet and grass nuts and see how we get on. First have to try and track down a grass nut that isn't insanely costly. Or perhaps I'll try and find unmollased alfa a but it seems to be insanely rare which is why I end up buying hifi.

Stupid question of the day coming up, it is a balancer too right? I don't need to feed pink powder and outshine? Baileys website say vitamins and minerals in the ingredients but doesn't list exactly which ones they are so I just want to double check :o
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Hello
If you have a poor doer then you want every mouthful to be calorie dense (therefore feeds do not become too large)
Personally I'd look at your fibre first. HiFi doesn't have anything in it so I'd up its worth first (alfa or dried grass), then add a conditioning feed (so outshine etc - i like triple crown top-up as it's cheap and you feed low volume and it works), then add vit/min (a powder or balancer - baileys balancer is good). When I've had a poor-doer I also add fibre-beet or fast-fibre (they love it - especially warm!) plus ad-lib haylage.
I don't find it that expensive, esp if you stop them from loosing weight in the first place (managing rugs, stopping any stressing etc).
Good luck with it
 
Wow, so many replies. See, this is why I tell the OH it's important I check all the time. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!


Will have to think about the fibre thing, I'm leaning towards a chopped grass at the moment. BH had a really odd lumpy reaction to something last winter and they only thing anyone could think of was alfalfa as it was the first time he'd ever been on alfa a. Before I had him he ate mollased chaff (yuck) and pasture mix (double yuck!) lol It probably wasn't anything to do with feeding a lot of alfa a but I don't really want him coming up in lumps again so might err on the side of caution and steer clear just in case!
 
firewell said:
My mums horse is a poor doer, he's just not that interested in eating and is a picky eater, everything has been checked.

Some people swear by linseed, Alfa oil and kwick beet with a balancer but this doesn't work for my mums horse as he really isn't enthused with a bucket of Alfa and he won't eat oil suplements, he thinks they are yuck.

It's taken us a few weeks of playing with feeds we arent used to fussy eaters, my TB scoffs down anything.

In the end we have settled on spillers conditioning cubes as these aren't too high in starch or sugar, they are 20% which is much less than many conditioning mixes.

So we are trying these with just a double handful of Alfa A (although spillers also suggested their conditioning fibre) with as much linseed oil as he will tolerate and a balancer.

Not sure if it will work but can update you if it does?

We were going to try calm and condition but apparently the spillers cubes work better, we will see.
Click to expand...

I too have had success with Spillers conditioning cubes, which I fed in conjuntion with Alpha A oil and Speedibeet and Pink Powder when I first got my TB and he was in an extremely poor state. I also fed him three times a day. There's just so many options now, aren't there?
 
jemima_too said:
I have one who is a bit of a pain to keep weight on and he gets as much haylage as he'll eat, for bucket feed he gets D&H 16plus mix, barley rings - soaked as he also decides he won't drink, unmolassed sugarbeet, alfalfa and the magic ingredient, NAF Pink Powder. It may not be to everyone's taste but it keeps him looking good.

I feed my 23 year old tb D&H 16plus mix too !
I rescued him in April, so he has been having it since then (after looking like a skeleton!) Saw an improvement very quickly and he is now blooming! (Have added a before & after picture)
He started on 1 scoop twice day - with Hi-Fi light, garlic & glucosamine but he is now on half a scoop twice a day as he is looking realy well!
Highly reccomend it for putting on weight/condition. His coat is very shiny now too.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=2331&pictureid=12599

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=2331&pictureid=12600
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abitodd said:
The Pure Feed company have an excellent range and would be happy to advise you.
New customers can enjoy 50% off............just follow this link.
http://www.facebook.com/ThePureFeedCompany#!/ThePureFeedCompany?sk=app_163849080647

Also Coolstance Copra(an acquired taste!) is fab for condition and shine.
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Was just about to suggest this. I've ordered my whole winters feed through them and saved myself a fortune!! :D My lad cannot have anything with too much molassas in (he's not a poor doers but not a typical fat cob either!) and I am adding to the Working Pure feed his Lo-Cal balancer that he's on year round, but it's worked out cheaper for me to buy the Working feeding than low sugar chaff..and of course it lasts longer cos I'm using less.
 
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