feeding a puppy, dry and raw?

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oldie48

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Stanley was being fed alpha Sporting puppy by breeder although she feeds her own dogs on a raw meat diet. I bought the same but pup is not that keen, having looked at the sticky on dry foods I've seen that it's not very high in protein. Can I add raw meat, chopped very small to it to up the protein content? I know there is a danger to feeding supermarket mince unless it's been frozen but what else don't I know? I've looked at the feeding raw sticky and it's very long, I have started to read it but would like a few sensible pointers please from those of you who feed raw. TIA
 
Pick a supplier, its really personal preference. Manifold Valley Meats are good, I use Landywoods, and theres loads more. I also raid Morrisons for heart, ribs and bones.

Most of them do prepackaged "ready meals" These are more expensive but very good for pups and to get you started. Mine got those for the first month, then went DIY with the big dog. You want to feed 80% meats, 10% bone and 10% offal of whch 5% should be liver and kidneys, but mine wont touch either and are fit as a fiddle!

Once your food is delivered, defrost a days worth and chuck out the dry food. Older dogs need transitioning, pups dont. We fed 4 times a day to start and have just gone down to one a day plus a chicken wing snack at breakfast time, now hes a year old.

This is Floyd the day I brought him home eating his first bone. He launched at it and I thought he was going to take my fingers off he was that excited!

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I put my latest pup on millies 60/40, although they advocated 70/30 for pups, it is easier for me if mine all get fed the same. To up the protein she had raw eggs or tripe with it, and never had a digestive issue. I am sure dogs are evolved to eat whatever they happen upon.
While researching protein I found that eggs are the best protein, as they are 100% digestible, followed by meat (muscle), and it went on. Wheat protein can be high but dogs cannot utilise it. Chicken 'meal' (feathers, legs, beaks) can give food a high protein score but it is not as digestible as muscle protein. With that I stuck with millies as even though lower it is all digestible stuff.
 
I've done DIY raw for the big dog for the last 5 years. For the pup, he was started on Canagan kibble but then I found a small independent pet shop that stocked raw "ready meals" for pups so I didn't have to stress about ratios. I switched overnight and pup has thrived, physically and behaviourally. It's the "Nature's Instinct" range (or something like that). He's a small dog so works out cheap. He also gets wing tips. At some point he'll go on the same DIY diet as my big dog!
 
lizziebell said:
No - you shouldn't mix raw meat with dry kibble, as it can cause digestive issues.
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This seems to be a growing urban myth. I cannot find a single scientific study that supports that view. I feed raw and kibble - sometimes as separate meals and sometimes together and never had a problem. Dogs are scavengers whose digestive systems are able to process all sorts of junk without causing any issues.
 
Mince from the supermarket is fine, in America, you're advised to freeze pork mince for a length of time, not here, tho.

Nothing wrong with feeding raw and kibble, my old boy has a weird mix of all sorts and is never sick. Youngsters also eat raw plus kibble occasionally and are fine. It's a crazy myth.

The Dog Food Company is on Facebook, based in Ipswich, they deliver down to London, dunno how far north they go. They have a huge variety of stuff, very good quality, not the cheapest, I'd say. I get a huge delivery every three months. Read the raw sticky, it's helpful.
 
Ooh that is interesting about the freezing mince bit, because for some reason (and I am not quite sure where I got it from) I thought all mince (beef, lamb, chicken etc as well as pork) should be frozen before fed raw? Is that not the case then?
 
My dogs get some mince from the supermarket but I also buy in bulk (mince and raw bones) from Berriewoods who deliver all over the UK in refrigerated vans.

Last week I was gutted though, as I had not long filled our dog freezer with mince and bones and someone (no one has admitted to it yet!) turned the freezer off at the plug. I did get a rather "off" waft whenever I walked past the door to the freezer room but it was about a week before I realised the bloody freezer was off and the whole lot was honking! I have a small fridge in an outhouse that I keep a few days supply in to defrost so didn't realise sooner. I quickly refroze the lot but it is all going to have to be chucked and probably have to get a new freezer!
 
WorkingGSD said:
Ooh that is interesting about the freezing mince bit, because for some reason (and I am not quite sure where I got it from) I thought all mince (beef, lamb, chicken etc as well as pork) should be frozen before fed raw? Is that not the case then?
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I am sure I recently read that, too. As the suppliers assume human grade mince will be thoroughly cooked it can be contaminated with a bacteria that is killed by freezing. We need Ester, our resident bacteriologist!

ETA what a ****** about your freezer.
 
Ester is unaware of any bacteria that would be killed by freezing, given we store them frozen, more likely a parasite thing :p Ester will get back to you on this...




Google says neospora so yes parasite but wouldn't account for the comments on pork. I think toxoplasmosis/crypto comes under this too.
 
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See I know you could shed light. So do you think human grade mince should be frozen before feeding to dogs?
 
WorkingGSD said:
Ooh that is interesting about the freezing mince bit, because for some reason (and I am not quite sure where I got it from) I thought all mince (beef, lamb, chicken etc as well as pork) should be frozen before fed raw? Is that not the case then?
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Never heard that, which does not mean I'm right in my assumption, of course. Pork would make me wary, but I feed lots of complete minces-the ones with bones minced in-mainly beef, chicken and lamb. Because I get big deliveries, most will be frozen for a couple of days minimum, but I always leave some out for immediate use and any human grade stuff is generally fed on the day of purchase. The company I use says nothing on the website.

Mine have only ever been sick after eating rubbish outside and once from a stagnant pond. Bear was poisoned one time, I think, he very nearly died. Appalling weekend that was.
 
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ester said:
Ester is unaware of any bacteria that would be killed by freezing, given we store them frozen, more likely a parasite thing :p Ester will get back to you on this...




Google says neospora so yes parasite but wouldn't account for the comments on pork. I think toxoplasmosis/crypto comes under this too.
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Help, people, she's taking about herself in the 3rd person like she's Google!

Listeria and pork rings a bell, I don't know why, plus tapeworm, of course. This is from Google:

Tapeworm infection is caused by eating the raw or undercooked meat of infected animals. Cattle usually carry Taenia saginata (T. saginata). Pigs carry Taenia solium (T. solium). In the human intestine, the young form of the tapeworm from the infected meat (larva) develops into the adult tapeworm.
 
"There is no compulsory testing for Campylobacter in the production of raw pet food, however, Natures Menu Ltd conduct voluntary testing and, to date, have not had a case (in over 30 years of production). This is attributed to the vulnerability of poultry-derived Campylobacter strains to prolonged periods of freezing sustained during manufacture."

There's something about freezing salmon as regards parasites as well, don't recall mention of pork. Will have a dig through the NM raw consultant notes again. I clearly paid full attention when earning my shiny badge. :p
 
I'm trying to maintain the white rabbitness that ycbm attributed to me by popping up everywhere on the forum :D

see I rather assumed any tape segments would get minced but of course that doesn't mean the eggs wont be hanging around. I'm not sure re the other parasites and pork but is safe to say it is probably parasite based. Listeria likes the relative cold, that is why it is an issue with cheese, freezing definitely won't affect it.

campy is a trickier one to keep alive re. freezing - they start to lose their spirals and go round (often via a donut ;) ) so potentially affected but it will only be a reduction in numbers rather than the elimination you might/should get with parasites.
for fellow geeks for instance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768670/
Of course that reduction wouldn't be a bad thing as brings it down to more manageable levels.

Salmon I should know about, been testing hearts today, as you do.... no up on my parasites though only viruses!
 
Again nicked from Natures Menu notes:

"Salmonids are the second intermediate host to the common trematode Nanophyetus salmincola and dogs are commonly the final host. This parasite is a vector for the bacteria Neorickettsia helminthoeca which is the true cause of ‘salmon poisoning disease’ in dogs fed raw salmon. In order to address this issue raw salmon must be frozen for at least 24 hours prior to feeding as this ensures the salmon is safe to dogs."
 
blackcob said:
"There is no compulsory testing for Campylobacter in the production of raw pet food, however, Natures Menu Ltd conduct voluntary testing and, to date, have not had a case (in over 30 years of production). This is attributed to the vulnerability of poultry-derived Campylobacter strains to prolonged periods of freezing sustained during manufacture."

There's something about freezing salmon as regards parasites as well, don't recall mention of pork. Will have a dig through the NM raw consultant notes again. I clearly paid full attention when earning my shiny badge. :p
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I have shiny badge too - no mention of pork just the salmon having to be frozen before feeding .
 
Salmon heads caused an interesting reaction in my lot when I first swapped to raw. Took a while to find a balance. When I said sick earlier, I meant when they'd been sick from ingesting bad stuff as opposed to numpty owner trying to feed too much raw stuff at the start :rolleyes3:
 
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