Feeding a TB for weight gain and hoof health?

Captain Bridget

Captain Bridget

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So it seems I will be getting my share horse on full loan which means I'll be able to make a change to his diet! He's rather ribby at the moment.

He's a 16.1hh, 7 year old ex racehorse. He always drops weight over winter but is fine over the summer. In the summer he lives out 24/7 on no feed and looks great. In the winter he comes in overnight, with a massive haynet which he rarely finishes.

He's currently fed a large handful of Alfa A morning and evening, one scoop of conditioning cubes (Mole Valley) split between the two feeds, one smaller scoop speedibeet AM and two smaller scoops speedibeet PM. With added biotin for his feet and a general purpose supplement.

We tried micronised linseed a while back and it made him fizzy which he doesn't need!

Unfortunately our hay is currently not very good quality so we're having to wet it but I don't want to have to buy more hay in as there isn't space for it all! Would cutting it with haylage help? I could store a couple of bags of haylage at a time.

He's usually worked 6 days a week, mostly hacking with some fast work, however he's currently on box rest!

And unfortunately I'm on a tight budget. I will be getting the dentist asap but it just depends on what I can afford and when.
 
I would give him 2 scoops of conditioning cubes a day and swap the speedi-beet to the full fat sugar beet.

That's what my TB is having this winter and he looks much better for it.
 
Assuming he comes sound and you take him on I would not be inclined to make any real changes to his current diet for now, if he gets fizzy on linseed giving him molassed beet and upping the cubes may also make him fizzy, the grass will be through in a while so he should pick up over time and you can save your cash for what really needs doing such as his teeth.
I would then plan ahead to try and prevent him dropping off next winter keep him on a balanced supplement all summer just to ensure he gets all he requires and don't wait for him to start losing weight before feeding properly in the autumn gradually increase as the grass gets less plentiful that way there should be less of a yo yo effect and it should mean you need to feed less over the worst of the winter if he does not get too lean early on, my horses are getting very little feed now as they have done so well this winter they are all looking a bit too good despite doing more work but they all get fed over summer too, not much but enough to keep the balance without gaining or losing , the key is to feed before they look as if they have lost any, having lost it is far harder to get it back on.
 
To improve weight and hoof quality in a TB you need a low starch and sugar feed with plently of fibre and oil. This has made an astounding difference to my TB who came fully shod but is now barefoot and is nice and round now after faffing about with conditioning feeds last year. She is now on as much haylage as she wants (I mean loads, 4 large nets go it at night). For feed she has speedibeet, 2 mugs micronised linseed and 2 scoops whole soaked oats plus minerals. I would suggest pro-balance for a general supplement. Full fat sugar beet and conditioning cubes is a no go for me with hoof problems and will not help. You need unmolassed but high in calorie. If yours cannot tolerate linseed then I'd suggest adding some extra oil e.g. sunflower oil. Other feeds safe to improve hoof quality are D&H ERS pellets, copra and solution mash but I have not need to use these on a simple straights diet with minerals.
 
I'd feed allen and page calm and condition, and Blue chip (if you can afford it) it's what I feed my mare who was under weight, and has always lost weigh in winter. She's now dazzling with a lovely topline and coat.
Speedi-beet is good, but the fibre-beet one is much more conditioning. Although, the allen and oge ive mentioned is a lot more high in calories, cheaper, and doesn't contain an barley or molasses and is also low in starch so very healthy too.
I'd then add Alfa-A oil on top, it as anti oxidents and contains loads of calories and is slow release energy.

These two feeds, alongside the Blue chip balancer if possible, if not then another balancer, would be enough.
 
Hayleighm175 said:
Speedi-beet is good, but the fibre-beet one is much more conditioning. Although, the allen and oge ive mentioned is a lot more high in calories, cheaper, and doesn't contain an barley or molasses and is also low in starch so very healthy too.
I'd then add Alfa-A oil on top, it as anti oxidents and contains loads of calories and is slow release energy.
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Actually, speedi-beet is higher in calories than fibre-beet but I do not find a difference in terms of weight gain between them. I chose speedi-beet purely because I don't feed alfalfa (barefoot).

C&C is actually high in starch at 13% compared to speedi-beet at 0. It is only marginally higher in calories than speedi-beet by 0.5DE which is negligible. It is mainly beet pulp with soya and linseed expeller which you can do a cheaper, better version of with micronised linseed. Plus I've never found C&C cheaper, used to pay £13 for it whereas £11 for speedi-beet.
 
Rolled oats, mega cheap (mine were £7.70 for 25kg) and haven't fizzed my TB up (3/4 scoop a day) and he is putting condition on like a goodun - visibly every week :)
 
My skinny mini TB is barefoot and maintaining weight on 2 Stubbs scoops of speedibeet, 2 Stubbs scoops Alfa a oil and 2 mugs of linseed - plus supplements. Considering adding oats just to start bulking up a bit but he is notoriously difficult to feed - tried nearly every conditioning cube last winter with no effect on weight but plenty of stupid behaviour!
 
Nannon said:
My skinny mini TB is barefoot and maintaining weight on 2 Stubbs scoops of speedibeet, 2 Stubbs scoops Alfa a oil and 2 mugs of linseed - plus supplements. Considering adding oats just to start bulking up a bit but he is notoriously difficult to feed - tried nearly every conditioning cube last winter with no effect on weight but plenty of stupid behaviour!
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mine is the same!
 
I usually use Unmolassed Sugarbeet, Linseed and Copra with Oats optional when in harder work. Adjust the quantities of Copra depending on how well they are doing

Had to cut out the sugarbeet as new yard is ridiculously high in calcium but the above with a balancer would be my starting point.
 
Mine is on
adlib hay
4 feeds daily as must be small, total per day is
soaked whole oats 3 scoops
grass nuts 2 scoops
alfa a oil 1 scoop
linseed meal 2 mugs

he was on copra but had such trouble getting it hes not had it for 5 weeks now and touch wood nothing lost.
I also add 1 scoop barley soaked for sparkle

he works hard, adv dr so id reduce that and cut barley out for something in light work

he was on calm n condition but he didnt like it, made him footy and cost 2x as much!
 
Thank you everyone, it's a great help. Very interested in feeding oats now, had never thought of it before but reading up on them and they sound great for us. Especially their cost!

Might give linseed another try and not sure he was on it long enough to settle.

There is apparently a local stockist of Copra but they have very odd opening hours so wondered how much people usually pay for it?

Also anyone know how much delivery is from Charnwood? I looked at Linseed on another site but delivery for one bag of feed is £7 taking a bag of linseed from £18 to £25!

And if I use Pro Balance do I still need to feed biotin and a general purpose supplement?

Is it necessary to feed Copra if I feed oats, linseed and speedibeet? And would I cut out the Alfa A?

Sorry for all the questions! This is the first time I've had to make a decision on horse feed myself! Complete novice horse owner!
 
Captain Bridget said:
Also anyone know how much delivery is from Charnwood? I looked at Linseed on another site but delivery for one bag of feed is £7 taking a bag of linseed from £18 to £25!

And if I use Pro Balance do I still need to feed biotin and a general purpose supplement?

Is it necessary to feed Copra if I feed oats, linseed and speedibeet? And would I cut out the Alfa A?
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Charwood linseed from farmandpetplace.com is £23 inc delivery - I have found nowhere cheaper but at 2 mugs a day it lasts a while. I also order whole oats from there for £8 for a 25kg sack!

You do not need to feed anything else with the pro balance

I feed exactly that, with no copra (no needed to feed) and no alfa a because I don't feed any chaff as it is essentially chopped straw with no nutritional value and I'm not wasting money!

Good luck :)
 
ellie11987 said:
no alfa a because I don't feed any chaff as it is essentially chopped straw with no nutritional value and I'm not wasting money!
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Sorry to correct but Alfa A is alfalfa not straw, even with Hi Fi which is mixed Alfalfa and Straw, alfalfa is the highest ingredient.

Some people prefer not to feed it because it hots their horses up, some find their barefoot horses don't do so well on it, it is high in calcium which doesn't suit everyone, myself if I am going to feed alfalfa, I use the pellets as they don't have things like mould inhibitors added to it, however it's not fair to say it is without nutritional value.

Captain Bridget I think I pay £19.50 for Copra, it lasts quite a long time as a little goes a long way but you may not need it so try without first.

Linseed costs £24 delivered from the farm and pet place, with Titmuss runner up at £25 (I think that's the one you found.) But it lasts for ages, I bag I opened before christmas still has about a quarter left and I have two on it.
 
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criso said:
Sorry to correct but Alfa A is alfalfa not straw, even with Hi Fi which is mixed Alfalfa and Straw, alfalfa is the highest ingredient.

Some people prefer not to feed it because it hots their horses up, some find their barefoot horses don't do so well on it, it is high in calcium which doesn't suit everyone, myself if I am going to feed alfalfa, I use the pellets as they don't have things like mould inhibitors added to it, however it's not fair to say it is without nutritional value.

Captain Bridget I think I pay £19.50 for Copra, it lasts quite a long time as a little goes a long way but you may not need it so try without first.

Linseed costs £24 delivered from the farm and pet place, with Titmuss runner up at £25 (I think that's the one you found.) But it lasts for ages, I bag I opened before christmas still has about a quarter left and I have two on it.
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Fab, thank you! Will give it a try without Copra for now and see how we get on.

With regards to Alfa A, we use the Mole Valley farmers version called Alfalfa Plus or something similar which is made by Dengie so exactly the same just cheaper so think I'll stick on that as the other horse on the yard is fed the same so saves space in our feed room!

How much oats would you suggest feeding? And would you do two cups of linseed or more than that? And how long do whole oats need soaking for?

Farm and pet place looks good as I can get linseed and oats from there.
 
My barefoot TB gets copra, linseed and straw chaff, plus prohoof, salt & magnesium and adlib hay. He was very underweight and has now put on weight & maintained it over winter. Copra has made a massive difference and it's non fizzing, low sugar/starch, high fibre.
 
criso said:
Sorry to correct but Alfa A is alfalfa not straw, even with Hi Fi which is mixed Alfalfa and Straw, alfalfa is the highest ingredient.

Some people prefer not to feed it because it hots their horses up, some find their barefoot horses don't do so well on it, it is high in calcium which doesn't suit everyone, myself if I am going to feed alfalfa, I use the pellets as they don't have things like mould inhibitors added to it, however it's not fair to say it is without nutritional value.
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Sorry, you are absolutely right, I meant in the context of OP's question I don't think it has any use and would be a waste of money as I do not know anyone who actually feeds recommended amounts of chaff to receive significant nutritional benefits and weight gain. I see it more as a bulk for fatties than a true hard feed.
 
I think you might be confusing straw chaff which is a low calorie filler and good for fatties with alfalfa chaff.

Alfalfa has a protein content of 14% compared to 9% for unmolassed sugarbeet. Sugarbeet is higher in calories with a D/E of 12 Mj/kg and with Alfa A molasses free at 11.4 MJ/kg but that's dry weight so you may find you are feeding less sugarbeet by weight.

My barefoot tb did well on the pellets, no problems with his feet and didn't hot up on it but unfortunately it's another thing that's high in calcium so I don't feed it anymore.
 
Captain Bridget said:
How much oats would you suggest feeding? And would you do two cups of linseed or more than that? And how long do whole oats need soaking for?
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I haven't fed whole oats soaked so I'll leave someone else to comment but I used to feed about a kilo of rolled oats (split between two feeds) for maintenance in medium work however that was alongside the same of Copra so it wasn't the only calorific feed. I would start with about a cup of linseed but build up gradually.

If you've had issues with your horse getting fizzy, I would add one thing at a time so if he reacts you know what the problem is.
 
I soak my oats (!) Overnight.
I make the feeds the evening for the next day so technically the eveng feed has been made nearly 24hrs.
ive not found whole oats in droppings.
id start off gradually to half scoop 2x day, you can just increase if needed.
 
molassed sugar beet will more than likely fizz him up and wont be good for his feet (high in sugar). How much linseed were you feeding for it to fizz him? maybe try feeding that but less of it as it is good for keeping their weight and also good for feet :)
 
I'll stick with speedibeet as that's not molassed, I've been searching hundreds of types of feed (or at least it feels like it!) and have been immediately discounting them when I see molasses in the ingredients!

I can't remember how much linseed we were giving him but I'll give it another go. I'll do it one at a time so I know if anything causes fizziness. Only problem is he's just coming off a weeks box rest so is a bit hyper anyway! But I've still got half a bin of conditioning cubes left so need to will order oats and linseed, lower the cubes and start adding linseed in. He's not fizzy on his current feed so if it does anything it should be fairly obvious.
 
Whole Oats Linseed and a good Vit / min was magic for my hard keeper BF TB. I found beet wasn't good for him not sure the reason but he was always better on chaff.
 
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