Feeding Advice please! :-s

H

Holloa

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 July 2007
Messages
398
Visit site
My boy currently fed on 1 generous scoop Alfalfa (molassed), 1/2 scoop build up mix, 1/2 scoop fibre nuts, soya oil and 4 slices of good quality hay. This is at night, in the morning he has 2 slices of hay and turnout all day to grass.
I am hunting him, but not every weekend, and hacking for at least 1 hr 1/2, 3-4 times a week. I know hunting takes alot out of a horse, but he's very fit, but i've noticed that his hip bones have become more prominent and his bottom is not as rounded as it used to be in the summer.
The issue is that i can't risk giving him any more feed as he's very full on as it is with what he's on at the moment. Would anyone recommend anything, i've thought of giving him haylage does this give them more energy or is it just a weight gainer?
In a bit of a dilemma! Thanks everyone!
 
Haylage almost always gives a horse more energy so it is worth a try.
There are a few supplements out there which say they put on muscle/weight but personally I don't think they work.
Instead of 1/2 scoop build up mix and 1/2 scoop fibre nuts you could just give 1 scoop of build up mix instead? What build up mix do you use? I recommend Baileys no.17 or Spillers conditioning mix. They both have a lot of fibre in them.
Also, you could try feeding him twice a day, obviously halving the total feed into two smaller portions. And make sure he is rugged up very well.
My horse had immense problems putting weight on so I understand your problem!
 
If he is already "full on" I'd be wary of giving haylage as with some horses it can act like speed!!!

You've not mentioned how tall he is!!! (from your avatar, he looks to be quite a big horse!)

one hard feed a day (and please dont shout at me or take offence) is not enough for a horse in that amount of work....and regardless of him having turnout all day, there is no goodness in the grass....

Just to give you an idea.....

Mine are currently being fed the following amounts....

17.2 warmblood... 1 scoop winergy medium energy, 1 large scoop dengie alfa a, 1/2 scoop bruised oats and 1 whole section of haylage (from the large bales) twice a day. horse ridden 3/4 times a week schooling for approx 45 mins

17.1 elderly warmblood... 1 scoop winergy low energy, 1 large scoop dengie alfa a, 3/4 scoop barley conditioner, 5 sections hay in haynet, twice a day - horse not in work at all, but taken out for a stretch daily

16hh TB 1 scoop Winergy low energy, 1 large scoop dengie alfa a, 2 level scoops NAF pink powder, 4/5 sections of hay in a large haynet and 2/3 in a small haynet twice a day..... Horse ridden maximum of twice a week and lunged twice a week

16.2hh TB not ridden at all and turned out 24/7, 2 scoops of Safe and Sound, access to constant supply of hay.

And all those feeds are twice a day!

So as you can see from those amounts of feed alone, and the non existence of hard work, you are not feeding enough and your horse is losing condition.... Also is your horse warm enough? I presume being in such hard work and being the stamp of a horse that he is, you have him clipped as well????

One of the hardest things to do at this time of the year is get the weight back on and owning thoroughbreds this is something I can relate too..... I'm now on my third winter with the 16hh one and its taken this long to get it right!!!

Let us know how tall he is and maybe someone could do a calulation for you to advise how much hard feed to forage ratio you should be feeding, then someone may be able to recommend suitable feeds to get the weight back on and maintain his levels so that he doesn't drop any more.....
 
You need not to think in 'scoops ' but weight and also as Ovidius has said what size /type is your horse as well as work level.
Most ;compound feeds are meant to be fed at a certain rate and i can tell you now that your horse will not be getting the level it needs
Feeding is not just about calories [amount of 'fuel'per feed] but also nutrients, more especially things called limiting nutrients, for example a minute amount of vitamin D is required for Calcium to be up taken. Your horse could have as much calcium as you like but without Vit D it would not be taken into the body. There are many other metabolic demands that need such limiting nutients . This is where a feed balancer comes in, Top Spec for example. This also contain Pre and pro biotics to aid more efficient use of the fibre content in the hind gut. Thus getting more from your hay [personally i would go for the haylage as it has more water soluable nitrients in it which will help for a start, you need hi fibre haylage that is not too wet and made from a good mix of grasses not just Rye grass]
By using the feed balancer the compound feed you do feed will have more value and he will get the nutrients that he needs to sustain his body, especially with his work demands as he will need to repair and sustain his muscle mass.
As also said two feeds aday of the level you are feeding Am should be fed with any suppliments like joint etc going in the PM feed as there is better uptake at night.
Allen and Page conditioning mix is exellent as is , if you need a bit more energy top specs' conditioning flakes.
Hope you get to read all the advice given and it helps.
 
I would change him to alfa a oil and increase the amount, even to as much as three big scoops over 2 meals. This will keep him occupied longer too as horses are meant to spend most of their time eating.
 
I agree with what has been said by Ovidus and partoow, and would just add that any mix is generally higher in starch than its equivalent in nuts, so the D and H BU mix is much more likely to be heating than D and H BU nuts.
 
have you tried a feed balancer such as top spec. I can only feed my mare on lay off cubes as she gets very excitable it helps keep her rounded and calm. Other feed balancers canbe just as good i just found some of the other popular ones not to be as calming as Top Spec.
Good lUck
Oh by the way I event my mare on lay off cubes, top spec, alfa a oil and sugar beet
 
I have probs feeding my mare so she has feedmark benevit and baileys local on top of her normal feed to keep condition on. She drops weight really quickly over the winter but if she has more than the bare miniimum of feed she goes nutty.
 
I also think he's not getting enough, and I'm not sure the logic of feeding half build up (a condition feed for poor doers) and half hi fibre cubes (a low-calorie food for good doers). They do completely opposing jobs.

If I were you, I'd put him on a good quality basic cube for horses in light-medium work. I prefer cubes as they are lower in starch and therefore higher in fibre and less heating.

I like D&H Country Cubes or A&P Hacking Pencils, but any of the big makes will do an equivalent, and give him one large round scoop (about 1.5kg of nuts, I believe) am and pm with a generous amount of alfalfa chaff.

I would then also give him good quality hay or haylage ad lib. My personal preference is for haylage.

If this doesn't give you the condition you require, then you could add soaked sugarbeet (speedibeet is very good) and extra oil (soya oil is very good).

Or you could try a non-heating conditioning cube like A&P Calm and Condition, although anything 'conditioning' is always more expensive. In the first instance, I would try feeding him more of a basic cube as this may be all you need to do.

I would also stress that there is absolutely no goodness in the grass at the moment, and all mine are having additional hay or haylage out in the field.

And I wouldn't bother with a balancer if you are feeding enough of the cubes - balancers are great for horses which are getting little or no hard feed and need the extra vits and mins.
 
Id change the build up mix for a different conditioning type. Build Up worked a treat for my last horse to build him up (when nothing else did) but with my current horse, Baileys Conditioning Cubes have done the trick. Depends on the horse I guess!
 
I buy the Dodson and Horrell Build Up Mix which my feed merchant says is very good. He's got a Heavy weight Fal Viking combo, he is clipped but i make sure he's got a good quality rug on him. The only concern i have giving him 2 feeds with the mix in, is that he'll certainly be more of a sprung coil than he already is! For example today out on a hack, he's now developed a new gait.... i call it the tralk/wrot, basically a very very very fast walk, i like a forward walk but this is silly!
perhaps a compromise would be to give him a breakfast of 1 scoop fibre? would this help do you think?
 
oh sorry to add he's 16.2hh wb/tb. a very good doer in summer, almost gets too fat then, but when its winter he really slims down, and i don't have enough knowledge about feeds etc to keep him looking tip top. I like to see him rounded and in good condition, not scrawny.
 
Thanks for all the advice. Really really helpful- i love this site ! :-)

right- options are: change him onto build up cubes or country cubes.
i've bought him some horsehage today as a trial ( the blue one) i was told by my feed merchant to start with the blue and if that doesn't work go to the green, which is timothy grass i think!)
I'm going to add it with his hay that he's getting.

Ovidius - don't you have excitable issues with oats or is that just a myth in my mind? Also Naf pink powder? please can you explain what its for.

Oh and i do give him a splosh of soya oil in his dinner too!
 
Dibbedy - thanks very much - as soon as i'm running low on my current lot of BU mix-i'll get some country cubes and give that a go, i know alot of people spend a fortune on their hard feed, and if it works then its worth it.
Do you know the difference between Build up cubes and country cubes? or are they mostly the same?
TBH i get a bit confused with all the different brands and makes;
feedmark benevit, lay off cubes, top spec, winergy, baileys outshine. don't they all contain the same stuff?
thanks everyone, learning alot here!
 
If you're going to try a build up cube, give Baileys No 4 a go.....

I dont have any excitable issues with oats! Think it was scientifically proven that Oats have no heating value years ago.... and my 17.2 warmblood certainly proves that one!

Pink Powder is a feed balancer which also has a pro biotic in it to keep the good bacteria in the hind gut working properly, along with the benefit of having conditioning properties....

Can you weigh your horse with a weigh tape and let me know his approx weight, I'll then do a feed calculation for you and hopefully this will give you some idea of the hard feed to forage ratio to be fed on a daily basis.....

I also think if you want to give him an initial boost, to feed a balancer (which also help with condition) like Blue Chip or Baileys outshine.... a bag of Blue Chip works wonders in a month!

You may well be suprised when you cut out the D&H Build up mix that this coudl have been the cause for him being a bit full on!
 
[ QUOTE ]

Do you know the difference between Build up cubes and country cubes? or are they mostly the same?

[/ QUOTE ] Build Up cubes are designed for horses that need extra condition, whereas Country Cubes are for horses in light/medium work. Build Up Cubes are higher in 'calories' than Country Cubes (12.5 MJDE as compared to 10 MJDE). However, Build Up Cubes contain barley, whilst Country Cubes don't, so might heat up a horse sensitive to cereals. If you decided to feed Country Cubes instead of Build Up Cubes you would have to feed a greater quantity to get the same amount of weight gain.


[ QUOTE ]
TBH i get a bit confused with all the different brands and makes;
feedmark benevit, lay off cubes, top spec, winergy, baileys outshine. don't they all contain the same stuff?

[/ QUOTE ] No! Benevit is a vitamin/mineral supplement with added oil, lay off cubes are for convalescing horses and will be low energy, Top Spec is a balancer containing vitamins, mineral, protein etc. Winergy is a complete feed designed to be fed on its own and is cereal free. Outshine is a high oil supplement.

Most of the feed companies have websites which will help to explain the different products.
 
Ovidius - the reason for asking about the oats, is that i'm looking for some feeding advice for my dad's horse, a 17.3 warmblood. Maverick had to have a tieback and hobday op back in october, when he went into hospital his weight was 700kg and was looking in good condition, he had even grown a shoe size! ( we bought him in feb looking like a toast rack) he had all the summer's grass plus 2 feeds a day consisting of build up mix, alfalfa and speedibeet. Unfortunately during his op he developed a myopathy in his front shoulder whilst under anaesthetic, and he was in hospital for 4 weeks. We were really worried that his pedal bone was going to rotate in his other leg, but luckily the vets gave him some steriods and we had acupunture done and he recovered. Anyway! He lost SO much condition and muscle wastage, he looked like the toast rack again, since then he has been on convelescence (sp) diet and alfalfa since he had his op, but he;s still ribby. I guess my question would be can you give me some recommendations on how to keep condition on to big horses like him 17.3hh. its winter that i worry about mainly. would you recommend bruised oats? or anything else? i am going to be putting him on haylage as well.

sorry for the long post!
 
So going back to my other boy, i'd like to buy a bag of blue chip- it looks great on the website, but would i keep it up or would i need to stay with something like country cubes with alfalfa? There are so many options!!!! arrrrgh!

i gave my boy 2 slices of his haylage tonight ( being the 1st night of his haylage trial) and he was nosing it around and stepping on it, taking a few nibbles but going for the hay more, does anyone have horses that don't like haylage? i hope by morning its all gone ! !
 
Thats fine Melsk1, thats what we are all here for, to pick other peoples brains.... I use bruised oats.....
I've answered your PM and will do you a feed calculation later....
Now which one have you quoted the weight of in the PM, yours or your dads?
Send me both their weights and I'll work out one for the convalescent and one for the one in work....
grin.gif
 
Personally I would avoid anything starch (cereal based) for a convalesing horse as cereal is the most 'heating' and diffeicult to digest. Horses thrive on fibre.

I feed:

Alfa A Oil (full of oils, alfalfa and fibre)
Speedi beet (unmolassed sugabeet) High fibre, easy to digest
then I add either a balancer or conditioning cubes depending on weight gain required. Cubes can be soaked to a mash too!

(the cheapest balancer = Baileys Lo-cal or a conditioning cube
I feed Spillers Conditioning Cubes)

Nothing dificult to chew or digest, plus quite cheap to feed. Its great for the fussy eater, alieviates boredom and covers all nutrients etc

This keeps my mare sensible, on target weight and sane.

Always change diets gradually!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top