Feeding advice please! (Tying up/joint supplement)

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Ellietotz

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I believe my mare may have tied up the other day so I want to make sure I prevent this as much as possible. I've planned exercise routine and maintenance etc but need some advice on supplements.

She's currently fed Fast Fibre and Honeychop Lite and Healthy.

I've purchased a small tub of Global Herbs Alphabute to help relieve any soreness from the other day. I know that this can be used everyday for maintenance if wanted but I can't decide whether to get a joint supplement instead.

I was looking at Premier Flex HA which sounds good but there is literally so many, I don't want anything that'll be harsh on her stomach after treating her ulcers but I want to make sure her joints etc are kept in healthy order.

I would be grateful for suggestions! Thank you!
 
When I had a mare that had equine rhabdomyolysis syndrome (ERS), (tying up)I fed Saracen Releve alongside vitamin E & selenium.

Ensure an extra long warm up and cool down with exercise keeping the quarters warm.
 
A joint supplement won't help with tying up (there's not much evidence to say that most of them to help joints either, but that's by the by). Preventing tying up is a case of overall management - warming up and down carefully, making sure the horse is fit enough for the work you want to do, probably add vitamin e to their diet, keep muscles warm, don't leave stood in stable too long without turnout
 
Did you have the vet out? I tend to think that with at least the 1st tying up episode pulling muscle enzymes is the only way to see how bad it is. Then you'll know if that is definitely what you are dealing with.
 
To be honest, I think I'd want it confirmed by the vet before making huge changes to feed/supplements/management (which could in itself cause more issues if done too quickly) just in case you're barking up the wrong tree.
 
SEL said:
Did you have the vet out? I tend to think that with at least the 1st tying up episode pulling muscle enzymes is the only way to see how bad it is. Then you'll know if that is definitely what you are dealing with.
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I didn't unfortunately as I wasn't sure what it was and assumed she was just stiff after a ride and being stood still after, stupidly didn't clock on that she could have tied up. She's never had it before but if I had known what it was, I would have got the vet out to find out how best to tackle it. I've heard about adding vit e and selenium but I thought the supplements for tying up were all dependent on what type it is and I get worried about overdosing it as I know there is some in Fast Fibre. It was after a long ride on the first day that it had been fairly warm plus she was out with someone so joggy the whole way back and then being tied up to cool off, it was my fault really but I didn't know, live and learn, I'm assuming it's likely to be SER. I have bought some pure sea salt with no anti caking agent so I will start feeding this everyday so she has the recommended amount for maintenance just in case lack of salt was a contributing part to what happened. There are so many supplements for everything, it's stressful!
 
If I know my mare has tyed up I have bloods done a week later, then a week after that to check her muscle enzymes have gone back down to normal before I start working her again, she is now out during the night but in during the day, she has electrolytes and vitamin e everyday in her feed wether working or not, I always make sure she is warmed up and cooled off slowly. Good luck with your horse I find tying up can be a bit of a nightmare, mine tyed up just cantering around the field when I went to catch her!
 
When mine tyed up (Vet didn't come out to take bloods cos he was scared off by a note on her records about how much she appreciates needles!) my first move diet wise was to add Equimins de-tye and drink to her diet... this evolved into table salt and vitamin E oil over time. Also she is carefully warmed up and cooled off, works in a exercise sheet if it's not decidedly warm, has her massage pad on before exercise and is slightly over rugged (Probably looks like normal tugging to most people these days! ) to keep her slightly warm all the time. She has also been worked, near as damnit, everyday and walked in hand twice a day on days when there has been no turnout. Touch wood we haven't tied up since and her general flexibility has improved. Not sure, as I haven't tested, if we have an underlying condition or just had a few compounding factors causing a one off event. Either way I'm happy with the management she gets as I think it is good for any horse regardless. Apart from the rugging. Would keep her less rugged in different circumstances as she tends towards chubbiness but suspect cold was the major factor in her tye up so am sticking with it.
 
PapaverFollis said:
When mine tyed up (Vet didn't come out to take bloods cos he was scared off by a note on her records about how much she appreciates needles!) my first move diet wise was to add Equimins de-tye and drink to her diet... this evolved into table salt and vitamin E oil over time. Also she is carefully warmed up and cooled off, works in a exercise sheet if it's not decidedly warm, has her massage pad on before exercise and is slightly over rugged (Probably looks like normal tugging to most people these days! ) to keep her slightly warm all the time. She has also been worked, near as damnit, everyday and walked in hand twice a day on days when there has been no turnout. Touch wood we haven't tied up since and her general flexibility has improved. Not sure, as I haven't tested, if we have an underlying condition or just had a few compounding factors causing a one off event. Either way I'm happy with the management she gets as I think it is good for any horse regardless. Apart from the rugging. Would keep her less rugged in different circumstances as she tends towards chubbiness but suspect cold was the major factor in her tye up so am sticking with it.
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This has been very helpful. Thank you! What vitamin e do you feed? And would I be okay putting that in with Fast Fibre? My mare gets colder than the others at the yard too, even in summer, if it rains, she usually has to be rugged lightly otherwise she will shiver!
 
I would strongly advise getting bloods taken this week and again in a week or 2's time so you know what levels of Ck and Ast she is at and how quickly it goes down.

In the long term keeping them warm, a good warm up, proper cool down and as much time moving around outside the better. The ones at work that tie up are ridden 7 days a week. Monday is a good 1/2 hour on the hw, 15 mins trotting then a couple of lobs up the gallops before another 1/2 hour on the horse walker. Each day the middle work is increased whilst the walker work stays the same. Wednesday is a hard work day so Thursday is then like a Monday. Same build-up to work on a Saturday. Sunday is a good trot and maybe a lob round the fields. They also go out in the field for 3-4 hours a day And are fed a lower protein based feed than the rest of the yard.

Once you get the hang of managing it it's easy. We have found that once a horse has had a decent holiday (6-8weeks in a field) and we treat them slightly differently to start with they soon come back into the same work as everyone else and don't tie up again.

I read an interesting article a year or so ago that said trotting for 10-15 mins after work is best for getting rid of lactic acid in the muscles quicker. Just a normal, no pressure trot. It gets the blood moving more than just walking but the horse isn't working enough to build up more lactic acid.
 
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I'm with EKW I would get bloods taken this week to see if that was the case as it's certainly not too late.

Our mare has tied up twice, not really clear why either time, ridden in poor weather but she'd done plenty of that since, been for a canter and tied up walking home. Hasn't done so for years and not really been treated any differently.
 
Ellietotz said:
This has been very helpful. Thank you! What vitamin e do you feed? And would I be okay putting that in with Fast Fibre? My mare gets colder than the others at the yard too, even in summer, if it rains, she usually has to be rugged lightly otherwise she will shiver!
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Equimins vitamin E oil. It's a faff to use but is the cheapest natural vitamin E. I used with fast fibre initially but put it in speedibeet now.

As others have said get bloods if you can. Mine only didn't get them because the vet is a wimp and so I didn't speak to my usual vet who isn't a wimp and would probably have come out but he was on holiday. If it happens again I'll get bloods done.

My girl doesn't shiver but gets twitchy and obviously feels the cold even though shes a big lump. My elderly Anglo Arab needs less rugging!
 
EKW said:
I would strongly advise getting bloods taken this week and again in a week or 2's time so you know what levels of Ck and Ast she is at and how quickly it goes down.

In the long term keeping them warm, a good warm up, proper cool down and as much time moving around outside the better. The ones at work that tie up are ridden 7 days a week. Monday is a good 1/2 hour on the hw, 15 mins trotting then a couple of lobs up the gallops before another 1/2 hour on the horse walker. Each day the middle work is increased whilst the walker work stays the same. Wednesday is a hard work day so Thursday is then like a Monday. Same build-up to work on a Saturday. Sunday is a good trot and maybe a lob round the fields. They also go out in the field for 3-4 hours a day And are fed a lower protein based feed than the rest of the yard.

Once you get the hang of managing it it's easy. We have found that once a horse has had a decent holiday (6-8weeks in a field) and we treat them slightly differently to start with they soon come back into the same work as everyone else and don't tie up again.

I read an interesting article a year or so ago that said trotting for 10-15 mins after work is best for getting rid of lactic acid in the muscles quicker. Just a normal, no pressure trot. It gets the blood moving more than just walking but the horse isn't working enough to build up more lactic acid.
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Okay, I will call the vet tomorrow.
She lives out all year round so is always regularly moving, I hadn't done anything differently with her so I'm just at a loss of what could have caused it if she had tied up. I'm just assuming that's what it was. She was absolutely fine before and during the hack, it was after we had got back as she was tied up to cool down as normal for half an hour or so, I went to lead her away and she looked lame but no heat until the next day where the whole back right leg was hot from top to bottom except her hoof. No swelling that I could find. The heat has now reduced to just her bum but on both sides and she isn't lame but isn't moving right.
I'm not sure if it's relevant to what happened but a couple of weeks a go when the weather was bad, they were coming in for the day which she didn't mind because it was that or stand in the rain! A couple of days in though she wasn't right, she usually stands munching watching out but she was stood facing the back of the stable, very quiet and not happy. Looked tucked up as well. I have no idea what happened, she was fine going in and it was only for about 4 hours. Fine leading back out and she went off and grazed. I've never seen her like that though, she just looked really distant.
I wish I knew what was going on and I don't know how the vet will know either from just a check over. It's not got worse since it happened on the weekend which I guess is a good thing but I don't like not knowing what it was.
 
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