Feeding advice please....

[Muddyboots]

Help please! I find it all a minefield! My horse is a 16.1hh ISH gelding, 8 years old. In the summer he events and in the winter he is kept relatively fit and still goes out most weekends. I moved yards about 2 1/2 months ago and he's gone from being on poor quality grass to good grass (for this time of year!) and from poor quality hay to ad lib hayledge. At the old yard, where he had been for three winters, i always struggled to keep weight on him but now he has got a bit of a tummy! I feel i need to change his feed to suit his new situation.

He is currently fed;
AM - 1 scoop of Alpha A and 1 scoop of D&H conditioning mix
PM - handful of Alpha A, 1 scoop of above mix, 2 cups of top spec comprehensive balancer and half a scoop of sugar beet


At the same time as moving yards, i have also changed instructor and my new instructor has suggested that the D&H is probably too high in starch. He can be very arsey at times which she wonders if a lower starch based feed would help with. In addition, she would like to see him have a little more energy which i would agree with as i do find him lazy at times.


At the moment he is on average schooled twice a week, lunged once and a lesson and a hack at weekends. As soon as i can hack mid week (mid feb), his work load will be increased to 6 times a week mixture of hacking, schooling, lessons/competions ready to start eventing (90/100 level) mid april.


I would like to change his feed, that will suit him now but that can be altered to suit the increased work load (and the grass when it comes through) when the time comes (rather than making a radical change now and another one in say 1-2 months time).


In addition, he is a picky eater and i have had feeds in the past that he hasn't liked. The trend i have found is that it is anything with too high oil content.


Any suggestions welcomed….


Thank you in advance!!!

 

[Dusty85]

How about just cutting down the amount of hard mix in each feed? e.g. half scoop instead of a full one.

I think its surprising that he's not got much energy considering all the food that he's on. (and developing a belly!) Is he just getting a bit stale in the school and needs a change in the exercises you do? (please don't take offence at this- my event horse could be a bit lazy at times when schooling, but once we mixed things up a little I actually found he came off the leg nicely!)

 

[Darremi]

He is getting far too much rich hard feed. I don't even feed my three day eventer that much in the middle of the eventing season!

As Dusty said cut down the hard feed by half to begin with and try to increase his workload by making the hack a fast one.

 

[Muddyboots]

When you say hard feed, do you just mean the mix??

He was on much more last winter!

I don't think he is stale. I never do the same thing twice in a row and he's out somewhere different every weekend. He's also just had 3 weeks off. I do appreciate the suggestion though!!

 

[khalswitz]

If he's fat, he will struggle more with the work. Let him lose some weight and get into a good condition and you may find he livens up.

Personally, I'd ditch the conditioning feed as he doesn't need conditioning. Ad lib haylage has a lot of calories so this is the basis of where he gets his energy, and the grass is much better so summer will not be a problem for energy I can guarantee! My very poor doing tb looks fab on just ad lib haylage and good grass, he gets balancer, chaff and some beet over the winter when he's working, but otherwise haylage!!

Maybe try changing the alfa a to hifi, with less calories, keep his balancer, and ditch the sugar beet (more calories). See how he goes on that - if he needs more condition, reintroduce the beet. But if he doesn't need condition, don't feed conditioning feeds, especially if this is his off season, he should be eating less.

 

[Darremi]

When you say hard feed, do you just mean the mix??

He was on much more last winter!

I don't think he is stale. I never do the same thing twice in a row and he's out somewhere different every weekend. He's also just had 3 weeks off. I do appreciate the suggestion though!!

By hard feed I mean everything he gets in his morning/evening feed: mix/chaff/balancer/sugar beet.

Completely agree with Khalswitz, Alfa A is very rich by itself let alone with all the others. Conditioning mix is designed to put on weight or for horses with a high workload. I would switch to a lower calorie mix such as pasture mix and only feed a handful of it with the chaff and balancer.

You can up his feed once he loses weight and is in harder work if necessary.

 

[amandaco2]

Cut the condition feed.
id give a plain chaff such as hifi molasses free plus the minerals and vits
plus hay.

 

[Northern Hare]

As you are already feeding your horse Topspec balancer, I would personally recommend you call their feed line as they are extremely helpful and go through the options in detail. As per the other suggestions, they may well recommend you drop the conditioning mix.

 

[Darremi]

As you are already feeding your horse Topspec balancer, I would personally recommend you call their feed line as they are extremely helpful and go through the options in detail. As per the other suggestions, they may well recommend you drop the conditioning mix.

To be honest I would be wary of seeking advice from a feed company as they have certain vested interests in selling you as many products as possible!

It's not rocket science, just cut down feed when the horse is overweight and give it more exercise!

 

[Muddyboots]

Will cut down feed. He's certainly not greatly overweight and after struggling to keep weight on him in previous winters, I am happy with his weight now, especially as the grass will disappear at some point and the weather is likely to get worse before it gets better. I don't want him to put anymore weight on. I worry that simply reducing his feed will reduce his energy levels which I don't want.

I give him as much work as I can for this time of year-anymore and I wouldn't be able to maintain a variety. Another 6 weeks I should be able to hack out before work and then I can up his work.

 

[Northern Hare]

To be honest I would be wary of seeking advice from a feed company as they have certain vested interests in selling you as many products as possible!

It's not rocket science, just cut down feed when the horse is overweight and give it more exercise!

Hi Darremi, I do agree with you, but having started my horse on one of the Topspec balancers (he was turning his nose up at all the other feeds I'd tried), I was still having problems keeping weight on him. I contacted their feedline expecting to be given the hard sell on more of their products, but it was actually quite the opposite and their advice made all the difference - and didn't involve me buying anything extra. It was just a thought really.

 

[khalswitz]

Hi Darremi, I do agree with you, but having started my horse on one of the Topspec balancers (he was turning his nose up at all the other feeds I'd tried), I was still having problems keeping weight on him. I contacted their feedline expecting to be given the hard sell on more of their products, but it was actually quite the opposite and their advice made all the difference - and didn't involve me buying anything extra. It was just a thought really.

I'll be honest I've had great advice from feed company nutritionists in the past - generally first thing they ask is about quality and quantity of forage, then the number of times I've been told what I was feeding was fine, or needed simplified was pretty high.

I had difficulties more with sales reps at shows, as often they would recommend unsuitable feed for my EPSM horse, but any time I've chatted to a nutritionist I've had great feedback.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

He is getting far too much rich hard feed. I don't even feed my three day eventer that much in the middle of the eventing season!

As Dusty said cut down the hard feed by half to begin with and try to increase his workload by making the hack a fast one.

really?! he's a horse still fit and still in work and previously a poor doer and we still have the worst of the inter to come and you think this is too much?! whilst i dont like D&H personally, i see no issue with the volume. Horsey sounds slightly sore in his tummy from the starch rather than over fresh and excitable.

Cut the condition feed.
id give a plain chaff such as hifi molasses free plus the minerals and vits
plus hay.

again, really?! you would work a horse,in winter, previously a poor doer, off chaff and hay?!

OP i doubt the starch content is doing him much good, he sounds arsey because its making his tummy sore.

alfalfa is really good for ulcery type issues, so persionally i would try him on either winergy medium energy, or the high (if you want more energy and he needs to lose a lot of weight, ive always found a small amoutn of higher energy is better for true fatties).
This is a fibre and oil based range so should help with his tummy/arseyness!

 

[Jane_Lou]

Our previous poor doer has been revolutionised changing to haylage and we are now struggling to keep the weight off. She is currently fed HiFi or AlfaA depending on the amount of work she is doing, she then gets balancer, some speedibeet to damp it down and linseed meal. In addition, depending on the work levels she gets Tiger Oats which are a brilliant way of delivering slow release energy. So every thing is oil or fibre based and on top of the haylage that is all she needs. She evented up to Novice on this and restricted grazing, she looked fabulous in her coat and had plenty or "directed" energy.

 

[khalswitz]

really?! he's a horse still fit and still in work and previously a poor doer and we still have the worst of the inter to come and you think this is too much?! whilst i dont like D&H personally, i see no issue with the volume. Horsey sounds slightly sore in his tummy from the starch rather than over fresh and excitable.




again, really?! you would work a horse,in winter, previously a poor doer, off chaff and hay?!

OP i doubt the starch content is doing him much good, he sounds arsey because its making his tummy sore.

alfalfa is really good for ulcery type issues, so persionally i would try him on either winergy medium energy, or the high (if you want more energy and he needs to lose a lot of weight, ive always found a small amoutn of higher energy is better for true fatties).
This is a fibre and oil based range so should help with his tummy/arseyness!

I see where you are coming from PS, but there has been a dramatic change in his forage intake - hay to ad lib haylage, poor grass to rich grass. This will make a big difference! A horse that has been poor on poor grass and hay may not be poor on rich grass and ad lib haylage.

I do agree that the worst of the winter is to come, but changing to a lower energy chaff (or as you suggest lower amounts of the higher energy stuff) balancer and beet may be enough of a change to stop him putting weight on without dropping when the weather gets worse.

I agree starch levels may be a problem, but the change in the forage makes all the difference in my opinion. My lad is a poor doing TB doing more work per week than the ops, and he gets less hard feed than her horse - I switched grazing so that he still has grass even now, and he has ad lib good quality haylage, and he looks great on it.

 

[amandaco2]

Adlib haylage plus plentiful grass on a horse getting a bit fat and only in light work. Yes, id start with a chaff and minerals.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

horse is still in competition work over winter though? so not what i would class as true light work (not hard work either but a competition horse has more complex feed needs than a retired/unbroken/walk hack only sort of horse).

agree that ad li fibre should always form the base but for lazy horse, previously a poor doer, and a slightly dubious attitude, workign him without giving him any energy feed is likely to lead to bigger problems IME-small high energy feeds keep this sort of horse happier to work and i would also worry he would drop off too quickly, then struggle to regain it before starting harder work in the spring.

i dont like fat horses any more than anyone else but i dont think this is as simple as cutting out all the hard feed.

edited to add-OP, find someone with a similar type of horse who in your opinion looks well/how you want yours to look, and ask them about their routine/feeds used etc. will save you a lot of hassle experimenting with 100's of different things and looking at peoples own horses is a very easy way to work out which advice to take lol! you dont want him fat but you dont want a dull tucked up hat rack either.

 

[Goldenstar]

My horses all get add lib haylage .
My hard feed is based around alfalfa oats speedibeet chopped straw and linseed .
If your horse was here I would look a feeding oats and some alfalfa and linseed with what ever minerals you want .
You can look at ways of slowing the speed he can eat the haylage at this works well with some when you need to control weight gain before you can up the work in the spring .
I have had several horses who evented up to intermediate on haylage and a snack for minerals I have one at the moment hunting full days twice a week on haylage and a snack to get his supplements down him ,he looks amazing .
Oats often work very well on horses like the one you describe so that's what I wouldbe trying.

 

[amandaco2]

Hes only doing schooled twice a week, lunged once and a lesson and a hack at weekends atm, thats light work. Imho.
Hes not increasing this til mid feb so id start at the point suggested and then add in oil based energy and defo as suggested in small meals.
I found soaked oats worked well plus copra cool tho I also wanted weight gain. but horses are so individual its hard to say what works for one, works for another!