Feeding an oldie 20+

EmmasMummy

EmmasMummy

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We have a new pony. He is a 20 yr old sec A and has come to us a lot thinner than I would like a pony that old to be given that its winter. He is currently in his quarantine period so in a field on his own which has a good covering of grass.

He was just receiving a feed of fast fibre and a general supplement when he was at old home. I have spoken to old owners and there is supposedly a history of laminitis but not in the last 5 years.

I have switched his feed over to Top Spec Senior @ 250g, Cushcare @ 1200g, Alfa A chaff @ handful and Veg oil @ an unscientific glug, and even after a day or 2 on that there seems to be a general improvement.

Is that an ok feed for an oldie over winter? He will be out all winter, and they will get hay in the field if needed. He will be fed every day unless he suddenly gets porky which I don't see happening to be honest.
 
1.2kg of a compound feed is quite a volume for a section A, if he needs it then fine but I'd try and make sure it's split across 3 feeds.
The pony will be getting he RDA of vitamins on the cushcare, I'd save your pennies on the topspec balancer personally
 
Make sure his teeth are OK and that he is getting plenty of hay too.
And bear in mind that being slightly lean may be why he hasn't had Laminitis in the last few years.
At his age, keep an eye out for Cushing's related signs...Laminitis being one such sign...muscle loss, weight loss are others so perhaps, if he doesn't improve, think about having him tested for that.
Lots of info on here..?
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/laminitis.html
 
Personally I'd swap vegetable oil for linseed if you think you need to add fat. He will gain weight with enough forage, and as mentioned already you need to watch out for further laminitis attacks and PPID. No need to rush the weight on, why not just see how he goes with his hay and a small feed for minerals? It's still very mild and spring will come sooner than we think!
 
I went to a laminitis talk organised by B&W Equine not so long ago at a horse sanctuary. Just thought I'd share it here as you were asking about oldies & feed.

The primary cause of spring laminitis in ponies are owners who feed them up in winter so they have no natural buffer in spring to help their liver, kidneys and metabolism cope with nutrient rich spring grass. Several studies showed that horses and ponies have a natural "feast & famine" cycle and that through domestication, we have altered this by feeding them year round "feast". The pony's metabolic response is to continue producing insulin to store this extra carb and sugar overload, and over time the system becomes immune to the insulin response and the blood sugar circulating goes up, much like type 2 diabetes in humans. You can see where this is going.

The staff at the rescue centre try to mimic the natural "feast & famine" cycle, especially in older ponies who may have compromised metabolism already - most have no history so where there is none, the staff just treat all ponies the same once the vet has given the all clear on liver, kidney function, teeth, worms etc. They try to keep the weight down in winter, so there is just good hay on offer and they live in herds on "tracks" to stimulate exercise. Then they are allowed to graze on grass gradually through spring and summer.

It really tries to mimic the wild pony as much as possible. In the wild, the ponies would roam and run all day and night so we could never recreate the level of exercise they get domestically. In order to do that, the staff said they would have to walk/run each pony for 10-15 miles a day! I was quite surprised at that...

If I'd got an "oldie" like yours I think now, I would get the vet to make sure there's nothing going on, check teeth and be mindful of the spring "buffer zone". A history of laminitis means they will always be prone and I think the previous owners are very wary of this which is probably why they tried to keep him slim.

Anyway, here is a link to the sheets we were given at the talk. Hope it gives you peace of mind that if he is slimmer than you would like, it may not be a bad thing :)
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/fat-horse-slim.pdf
 
He had a test for Cushings back in August which came back negative.

The old owner has definitely lied to me as I had a look back over the info I had on him and a picture she sent me of him "that day" is in fact one she took 3 weeks prior. He arrived in a full neck fleece so I didnt really see how bad he was until I got him inside. I do have a pic of him but you can't see properly as he is fluffy so for reference I would say he was about this when I took the rug off. You could really feel his point of hip and there was no squidgy fat on him except for above his elbow and thigh. I would put this at a 1-2 on the leaflet Tallyho linked to.

s6001228.jpg


YO agrees with me that he is on the too lean side. He was kept in a really bare paddock with another pony. He is now in a large quarantine paddock and he was just on grass for a week and he did improve even then. I usually would run a horse lean but to keep him as is would make him a welfare case.
He has absolutely no issues eating, no quidding or spilling what so ever.

He doesn't need to be 'fat' but I really wouldnt be happy keeping a veteran this thin over winter. I have put soaked Hay out for him and he has had a nibble but the field is near 10 acres and so he is really not that interested in it when he has so much grass.

I am going to speak to the local feed store/supplement maker as they also do nutrition advice.
 
Personally I'd be getting the vet to run bloods on him and a health check.

The NF veteran I had on loan looked a picture compared to that photo you have posted and she was a high level cushing's sufferer. Did you have the test done or was it the owner?
 
Snow Falcon said:
Personally I'd be getting the vet to run bloods on him and a health check.

The NF veteran I had on loan looked a picture compared to that photo you have posted and she was a high level cushing's sufferer. Did you have the test done or was it the owner?
Click to expand...

It was the previous owner. I have asked her for the name of the vets used as our current vets needs them for registration before they will visit. I assume it was the vets he was kept near and where the woman who delivered him works.

Other than his skinniness he is as bright as a button and very energetic.
 
I've not heard of vets wanting previous vets details before visit. Presumably if it was an emergency they would treat?! Anyway, I hope you get to the bottom things. I'd be having teeth checked, egg count and bloods done if he was mine. Gives you a head start on what to feed etc.

You got him for your daughter to ride?
 
Snow Falcon said:
I've not heard of vets wanting previous vets details before visit. Presumably if it was an emergency they would treat?! Anyway, I hope you get to the bottom things. I'd be having teeth checked, egg count and bloods done if he was mine. Gives you a head start on what to feed etc.

You got him for your daughter to ride?
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Yes. He came recommended as an angel of a pony from previous 3 owners.
I'd never had that request either until we moved to current practise. I refuse to use another local practise after the incident with my cob. If it was a matter of life or death they would come out. It looks like it was a solely equine practice that treated him. As I legally own him does that now mean that nay information on file I have a right of access to? Or will I need to wait till my vets get the file/info and ask them to see it?
I personally dont think there is anything wrong other than last owner not looking after him as they should and when their child got bored and decided a few months ago they didnt want to ride they too showed no interest and pony got overlooked.
 
Highly recommended then! Bless.

I haven't a clue with regards to the access to info. What a shame that the pony wasn't looked after. I had a similar problem when we got April, except that she was extremely overweight after not being ridden!!! I nicknamed her the pink pig.
 
EmmasMummy said:
Yes. He came recommended as an angel of a pony from previous 3 owners.
I'd never had that request either until we moved to current practise. I refuse to use another local practise after the incident with my cob. If it was a matter of life or death they would come out. It looks like it was a solely equine practice that treated him. As I legally own him does that now mean that nay information on file I have a right of access to? Or will I need to wait till my vets get the file/info and ask them to see it?
I personally dont think there is anything wrong other than last owner not looking after him as they should and when their child got bored and decided a few months ago they didnt want to ride they too showed no interest and pony got overlooked.
Click to expand...

It is a very sensible approach for the practice to take, by having his previous history they will have something to compare and will not have to repeat any tests unnecessarily, you have no rights to the veterinary history unless the previous owner gives consent although once your vet gets it they can obviously let you have a copy. I have used this with a tb who we needed to see the scans from when his tendon was injured, my new vet was able to compare when rescanning plus we found out how much other "treatment" he had been given to various other parts of him which made interesting reading!
 
Oh he does look poor...bless him

Keep him warm and feed plenty of forage...make sure his teeth are in order

If he's already improving with just a decent feed then hopefully that is all it is.
 
Definitely a 1-2 on the leaflet scale there. How could he have dropped so much weight?

Hope vet can pinpoint if there's any underlying issue.
 
Just to point out that pic of the grey is not the pony but the closest example i could find of how he was first day he arrived.....under the fluff.
 
I would cut out the Alfa A as it has molasses I believe, replace it with Alfa A oil which is oil-coated and much safer for ex-lammis. I'd also recommend the topspec cool conditioning cubes and fast fibre as laminitic safe feeds for weight gain. You want to make sure you're feeding a low sugar/starch diet even if he hasn't had laminitis in 5 years.
 
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