Feeding conundrum... help!

[Hels_Bells]

Also in CR and SY...

This year Remy has switched from being a poor doer to a good doer and is just a little more porky than I would like (show horse rather than event horse) he has also been having a little bit of heat in his hooves (though showing absolutely no lameness) so I am a bit concerned he is getting too much grass etc.

He has previously lived out 24/7 in summer on (what is usually) moderate grazing but this year there seems to have been a lot more grass than in previous years. He is a 16.1hh WB eventer and currently getting 2 scoops of D&H Comp Mix per day plus 1 scoop of healthy hooves and 2 mugs of balancer. He is Novice Eventing fit and works 5-6 days per week including gallops every 4-7 days.

So I have decided to bring him in overnight (5pm - 8am) to try to reduce and control grass consumption but am aboslutely tearing my hair out trying to figure out how much haylage I should give him.

In winter he has always had ad-lib haylage as he's dropped so much weight. So this evening I tried to figure out how much haylage he should be getting but am not sure if it's right and what I did give him (despite being double netted) lasted all of 10 minutes!! 2% body weight is about 11 kgs. He gets about 5kgs of hard feed per day and I *estimate* that he must get a good 3 kgs grass in the field from grazing on short grass all day (8am-5pm). So that leaves 3 kgs of haylage which is what I have given him, but it means he's standing in on his own (other 2 have to be turned out) with nothing to eat from 6pm until 9/10pm ish!!!

Other problem is I really feel he doesn't have enough "oomph" for me to reduce the hard feed (see older posts) I've struggled to get him to sparkle this season!! He manages his work but is pften pretty laid back and lazy about it.

 

[be positive]

By keeping him in overnight you may find he gets more sparkle in his work.

He is going to be on a similar regime to the horse I have in,currently doing 100s He has been in at night all summer as doing rather too well on the grass.

I feed about the same hard feed as you and give a net of haylage when he comes in and another later. I dont weigh them but he does not now gorge and usually has some left in the morning.
I would guess at about 6kgs total,you will probably find that he will quickly adjust and without 24/7 grass he can have more haylage.

 

[kirstyl]

Also in CR and SY...

This year Remy has switched from being a poor doer to a good doer and is just a little more porky than I would like (show horse rather than event horse) he has also been having a little bit of heat in his hooves (though showing absolutely no lameness) so I am a bit concerned he is getting too much grass etc.

He has previously lived out 24/7 in summer on (what is usually) moderate grazing but this year there seems to have been a lot more grass than in previous years. He is a 16.1hh WB eventer and currently getting 2 scoops of D&H Comp Mix per day plus 1 scoop of healthy hooves and 2 mugs of balancer. He is Novice Eventing fit and works 5-6 days per week including gallops every 4-7 days.

So I have decided to bring him in overnight (5pm - 8am) to try to reduce and control grass consumption but am aboslutely tearing my hair out trying to figure out how much haylage I should give him.

In winter he has always had ad-lib haylage as he's dropped so much weight. So this evening I tried to figure out how much haylage he should be getting but am not sure if it's right and what I did give him (despite being double netted) lasted all of 10 minutes!! 2% body weight is about 11 kgs. He gets about 5kgs of hard feed per day and I *estimate* that he must get a good 3 kgs grass in the field from grazing on short grass all day (8am-5pm). So that leaves 3 kgs of haylage which is what I have given him, but it means he's standing in on his own (other 2 have to be turned out) with nothing to eat from 6pm until 9/10pm ish!!!

Other problem is I really feel he doesn't have enough "oomph" for me to reduce the hard feed (see older posts) I've struggled to get him to sparkle this season!! He manages his work but is pften pretty laid back and lazy about it.

Goodness, feeding is so difficult, isn't it? Personally I think you are feeding a huge amount of hard feed for work done at this time of year. Is it worth talking to feed consultants regarding a feed to give more 'oomph'. Or is it a schooling issue that he actually needs to be sharper and more obedient off the aids? Apologies for rambling - just writing down my thoughts. I do know several people whose horses are evented from the field (not much hard feed though) but I do understand your problem if he is lacking in energy. I'll be interested to read other peoples thoughts

 

[Hels_Bells]

Thanks bp... am just worried that he is getting so little haylage (about 1/3 small net twice) that he is standing in for hours on end with nothing to eat which isn't good for him... but then I really don't want him to be more at risk from lami by feeding too much!!?

 

[Hels_Bells]

Thanks kirstlyl - 2 stubbs scoops is not huge for a horse on his work load, of his size etc in fact it's at the small end of what feed co's recommend... Also have tried lots of different feeds to try and address the sparkle but none so far have made any difference! His sparkle problem is that he is a naturally very expressive horse with great potential in dressage and can produce amazing work but he just isn't at the moment and is quite hard work to get him going forward etc.

 

[be positive]

Dont forget to take into account the water content of haylage over hay.
I dont feel you are feeding too much hard feed for a horse doing Novice but I may be inclined to cut back the balancer and divide the feeds into 3 if you are able to, I have tended to slightly reduce mix after an event and build up to the next one,not by much but I think it has helped,although I did dressage yesterday and it didnt look so out of place as usual.Not had an event for 2 weeks and getting porkie again.

 

[Hels_Bells]

Dont forget to take into account the water content of haylage over hay.
I dont feel you are feeding too much hard feed for a horse doing Novice but I may be inclined to cut back the balancer and divide the feeds into 3 if you are able to, I have tended to slightly reduce mix after an event and build up to the next one,not by much but I think it has helped,although I did dressage yesterday and it didnt look so out of place as usual.Not had an event for 2 weeks and getting porkie again.

I wonder how much you should replace hay for haylage with!!? If he should be getting 3 kg of "forage" how much is that when comparing hay to haylage... gawd it's all such a pain sometimes!!

I do tend to increase his feed near an event to give him extra energy, then return it down afterwards.

 

[FairyLights]

I'd cut out the bucket feed altogether and replace with Hi-fi lite or similar.

 

[Hels_Bells]

I'd cut out the bucket feed altogether and replace with Hi-fi lite or similar.

Simply can't do this, he's not a horse who can pull off something like novice level eventing from the field aided by a bit of chaff etc - it just doesn't give him the energy he needs esp as he's struggling now.

 

[Firewell]

Why don't you feed him soaked hay instead of haylage?
He will probably drop off a bit being off the grass at night and winter is coming anyway.
If you soak the hay for 12-24 hours it will leech most of the nutrients out and you can give him a big net without worrying.
I agree that it can't be nice for him standing all night with nothing to eat .

 

[kirstyl]

Thanks kirstlyl - 2 stubbs scoops is not huge for a horse on his work load, of his size etc in fact it's at the small end of what feed co's recommend... Also have tried lots of different feeds to try and address the sparkle but none so far have made any difference! His sparkle problem is that he is a naturally very expressive horse with great potential in dressage and can produce amazing work but he just isn't at the moment and is quite hard work to get him going forward etc.

What make of hard feed is he on? I have TBs and do appreciate how different they all are but to be feeding that amount of hard feed at the moment is extortionate if nothing else!

 

[Hels_Bells]

Thanks FW - I had wondered about doing this but am really struggling to find any old hay about. Our hay wasn't cut until July and is still very green which I think might be a rather hazardous for him!

Think I might go out and give him a bit more haylage before I turn in as am sure it can't be right for him to have so little! I think I will also reduce his area of turn out from tomorrow... though the grass in the larger paddock is shared with 1.5 others (one v old so prob only eats half a horse worth!) and really isn't very large!

 

[Hels_Bells]

He's on D&H comp mix and healthy hoof plus balancer. I promise it's really not considered a huge amount as it's the recommended amount the feed co recommends for a good doer with his work load. It could go up to as much as 3 scoops depending on his condition.

 

[martlin]

Tricky, very tricky... I would cut out the balancer and replace with a general purpose supplement (save some calories), 3kg of hay would be about 4.5kg of haylage, so you can give him a bit more, and maybe mix in a bit of straw to bulk up? If you are struggling for oomph but he is getting porky, how about giving him something like NAF EnerG?

 

[Hels_Bells]

Oh thanks Martlin - that's excellent help esp about the hay to haylage ratio!! I hadn't thought about adding straw... that's a great idea!! Also had no idea that balancer would make such a difference? He gets about 2 mugs per day in line with makers instructions (but have only added it recently so it isn't directly responsible for him being a bit on the show horse side) as I thought perhaps he was missing some vits or mins which might account for his lack of spark.

I will certainly look into naf nrg as it has been recommended to me before.

 

[martlin]

You are welcome and yes, a balancer is essentially a GP supplement on a ''steak'', so it does make difference calorie wise, but also worth considering that balancers often make them get more from their feed, it is better utilised and then BAM! they get fat, lol

 

[Hels_Bells]

Great - thanks for the info on balancer - really helpful... I literally just finished the bag (I have 2 others on it too) so I might just swap to GP supplement instead. Would Naf Nrg do that job or would I need to give another supp too!?

 

[martlin]

Ummm, I think I would go for a GP supplement and NAF EnerG as and when you need it, tbh. It is not quite as broad spectrum as I would like to use as a GP supplement.

 

[Firewell]

Talking of balancers my TB looks an absolute beast on Baileys Lo cal balancer. I took him off it over summer as I didn't think he needed it and he really dropped off so I put him back on it and within 3 weeks he was a beast again.
Lord knows what's in it to make such a big difference, especially as it's marketed at fatties! So your balancer may not be helping matters.
Also you could split his haylage ration into two and see if anyone who goes up the yard later at night could pop his second half in so he can't guzzle it all at once?

 

[Hels_Bells]

V interesting fw re balancer!! As I have him at home no one to give him a second net save me... Though managed to sweet talk hubby to give him second net tonight!

 

[hollyandivy123]

ok this might sound a little of topic, but you say his weight has changed and he has gone from a bad to a good doer. i am guessing his body shape will have changed as well, have you checked the saddle fit is still ok, if it is pinching at the points or some where else then that might explain his change in omph and expression in dressage. if the fit is correct and not blocking then it is a fitness/omph issue but if the saddle is now blocking his movement because of the shape change then that might be the problem. pop on bare back and compare the flat work with and without saddle

 

[TGM]

Talking of balancers my TB looks an absolute beast on Baileys Lo cal balancer. I took him off it over summer as I didn't think he needed it and he really dropped off so I put him back on it and within 3 weeks he was a beast again.
Lord knows what's in it to make such a big difference, especially as it's marketed at fatties!

Although it is relatively low calorie compared to other balancers, it does contain Yea-Sacc which is a probiotic yeast that optimises conditions in the gut and enables the horse to make the most of the food it gets, hence it can result in improved weight despite not contributing a lot of calories to the diet itself.

To the OP, I would concentrate on restricting the daytime grazing with electric fencing or by using a muzzle, so you can then afford to give him more forage overnight. Mixing the haylage with straw as mentioned above can be a good strategy too.

I would also echo the poster that mentioned checking the saddle fit. My daughter's horse had a similar problem and changing to a wider saddle made a huge difference.