Feeding, do you handle your horses when they are eating?

I try to leave them be but sometimes I need to crack on while they eat. My girls don't mind. Big lad used to pull vile faces and snap over his door at people when fed but now I can do rugs and kiss his nose while he eats.
 
Tinypony said:
Yes but - did they ever object violently to you doing this? Ears back, lunging at you with teeth bared, turning to kick etc? Or, as is more normal, were they reasonably OK about it.
Most of the horses I've owned and loaned haven't really minded me doing stuff with them when they're eating. However, I've had a couple that have been really upset about it. Understanding that they weren't behaving that way simply to be "naughty", "aggressive" or "dominant" but were genuinely stressed, probably because of happenings before I met them - I just left them to relax for that short time each day. Gradually they got calmer about the whole thing. Why get into confrontation with a horse that is eating? Why cause stress to a horse that is eating? Surely a recipe for stomach problems if nothing else.
It takes a few minutes for a horse to eat it's hard feed. So however busy we are, there is really no reason to bother them during that time. We don't have to rug, groom etc however busy we are. My mare who was food-defensive was stabled at night so I used to sort her rugs out etc before putting her in the stable. Then have her hay hung up before she went in, put her feed in and go home leaving her in peace. I think some people have a drive to dominate horses in all things and at any given moment. I don't honestly think that horses operate that way.
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No- i got my mare as a 2 yr old, and i just always groomed her when she had her bucket, its just what i did. She never objected in any way. I have found it very useful to be able to groom etc while they are eating, as i live in the north west highlands, and i do not have stables- in the winter (only time they are fed) it gets dark very quickly, and the weather is normally horrendous, so i like to be able to do more than one thing at a time!

with her foal (home bred) i just always handled her along with the mare during feed times, as i was having to feed around work etc, and meant i got to play with foal, groom my mare and not take all day about it. Willow (now 2) is perfectly happy to be groomed, tail brushed all 4 feet picked out while she is eating her bucket- its just normal for her.

our other mare who we bought at 16 (she turned out to be older!) also was handled while eating- we have no idea if she was in her previous home, and can be a bit of a tickly grouch, but she's never objected violently, so we carried on the way we did with our other horse.

none of them have ever been stressed by a groom while they eat- and they all eat VERY slowly, so i find it much more practical to do more than one thing at once. believe me, if whisper did not want me near her, she'd soon tell me! none have had any stomach problems- Tego is 40, whisper 18 and still fit and healthy, going strong- so i realy dont see hiw its done them any harm to be handled while eating.
 
I skip out around mine and change rugs while he is eating breakfast if I need to. I expect him to move over and to be polite, but I let him be as much as possible.

However I don't really buy the 'eating is the horse's time' argument. My horse has approximately 22 hours a day to himself. For around 2 hours a day I expect him to behave while I ride and handle him. He has more than enough time to himself eating hay and grass!
 
Is it generally considered acceptable or a horse to be aggressive when it's being fed? It's just that I'm currently dealing with a 20year old who gets really grumpy when he's got his head in a feed bucket. Even after the empty dish is removed he will still keep making faces threatening to bite and kicks out with his front leg. I watched him yesterday when he allowed another horse to steal his bucket and there were no flat ears and teeth on display. It seems he does it to humans and more subordinate horses. I don't think it's acceptable to have to rush in and drop his dish and retreat a safe distance whilst he eats. is he too old to learn?
 
I have purchased a colt he only arrived today, he has been moved to a new yard and put in with 2 other colts and a filly at the minute (I know it is very soon) I can only get near him when he is eating. He has been left in the field for the last month and not handled until I took him to a new home today. With him being my first youngster I am unsure what to do, do I keep standing near him whilst he is eating occasionally giving him a fuss and constantly talking to him or do I stay away from him? I have tried just standing in his field but even after a few hours he still wants nothing to do with me.

Again I understand I have only gotten him today and I dont want to pull him around etc. Any advice welcome :)
 
This time of year, in the evening I pick his feet out and change his rug while he eats. He has generally eaten by the time I get to the yard at 7am so he eats that in peace, I tend to agree he gets to eat all day undisturbed, and as he doesn't seem to mind being fiddled with while eating, I get on with it.
 
I leave all animals alonw when they are eating their specific "meals". Respect. i wouldn't want someone messing me about when I was eating dinner. But grazing in the field or eating hay/general maintenance fibre, I would expect to be able to do general work around/ to them
 
I handle both mine when they're eating. They live out 24/7 so when I go to see them, I bring one out one at a time and give them their feed. While they're eating I normally give them a quick once over with the brush, check for lumps and bumps, and pick their feet out. They're both youngsters and manners is important to me, as is saving time! To be fair they really don't care. My 6 month old filly actually finds it a lot easier to balance when I'm picking her feet out when her head is in a bucket of feed. It's not going to be a life long thing, but it's good knowing that they aren't overly protective of their food either.
Just edited to add, if either of them found being handled while eating stressful whatsoever I'd just leave them to it.
 
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I leave mine alone. I want their digestive system and process to be as relaxed as possible. I do all the final tidying up after I have checked that they are all concentrating on their buckets and content and I also take a moment to observe how they are in themselves.
None are aggressive, it isn't an issue.
 
I don't get this ' Well I won't want to be rugged, brushed etc whilst eating'. I'm not a horse?! I won't want to be rugged, brushed etc full stop!

I don't tease my horse whilst eating (and certainly not tease him with food, or use 'taking food away' to prove dominance) but I expect them all to let me do stuff to them whilst eating, just as they would whilst standing tied up.

A horse would never threaten to or even actually kick out at a more dominate horse nearby whilst eating it's dinner, so I don't see why it should do it to me. They only chase off lower ranking horses who pester them whilst eating and I don't class as lower ranking.

I suspect those horses who are agressive whilst eating are finally showing their true thoughts on humans and where they therefore think they stand in the pecking order.

Interestingly my friend has an older horse who has naff all respect for her (she's a rather too nicely nicely to him) but he goes along with everything she asks because he's a nice old soul. Except at feeding time, when he tells her to bugger off in no uncertain terms. However he NEVER does that to me (from whom he's had a couple of tellings off) and in fact stands back respectfully to let me take his dinner away (which I've never done, he's just willing to let me)
 
Feed can be a great training tool.

I've got two recently weaned foals here. They hadn't been touched, let alone handled before being brought inside. They needed to be wormed but would not touch hard feed. But they loved their hay -- beautifully green well made meadow hay. So we took the hay nets away over night and fed the wormer in the chopped hay in the morning. Worked like a dream!

What is more, the foals were keen to take repeated mouthfuls of hay from my hand and I got them head collared in a couple of hours. Usually, that takes a few days with their heads in a bucket at feed time and a lot of frustration!

So, yes, I do handle my ponies when eating and I would think there was something seriously wrong in our relationship if they felt there was any reason to resent it -- or resent my presence either. Why should they? They trust me and they know I am not going to push the boundaries too far.
 
Our four live out 24/7 and are bucket-fed loose in the field each evening. I will rug and de-rug whilst they're eating, apply fly repellant (no accidental spray in their dinner as I am generally using cream or gel!) and look them over. I don't fiddle with them unnecessarily generally speaking but they don't have an issue with being touched, stroked etc. whilst they are eating.
 
Ive never even thought about it, I often faff around with things when my mare is eating, esp when I dont have time to wait for her to finish.

She really doesnt care. If I have to take her away from her food, I can (and have) despite the fact that she is a greedy cow.
 
A girl on my old yard had a horse behavior expert come out and to a seriously crabby weanling. She would kick out when fed and barge in the stable. She was advised not to stand around the youngster whilst she was eating because that's what horses lower in the pecking order do (wait for the higher ranking horse to finish), and for a weanling trying to find her feet on the new yard, she'd naturally try to push up the ranks or if she felt another horse was an aggressive higher rank rather than passive, would try to be accepted into the herd by standing her ground.

She was also told to use the same deodorant all the time and spray it in the stable before she brought the horse in. Therefore enforcing that this was owner's space, not filly's.

On the other hand, I have a horse who will literally batter another horse if it comes near him when he's eating, except for his favourite mare who he'll happily share a bucket or a haynet with. I can climb all over him whilst he's eating and he doesn't bat an eye.

They're so complex, the psychology of it all is fascinating.
 
whisp&willow said:
No- i got my mare as a 2 yr old, and i just always groomed her when she had her bucket, its just what i did. She never objected in any way. I have found it very useful to be able to groom etc while they are eating, as i live in the north west highlands, and i do not have stables- in the winter (only time they are fed) it gets dark very quickly, and the weather is normally horrendous, so i like to be able to do more than one thing at a time!

with her foal (home bred) i just always handled her along with the mare during feed times, as i was having to feed around work etc, and meant i got to play with foal, groom my mare and not take all day about it. Willow (now 2) is perfectly happy to be groomed, tail brushed all 4 feet picked out while she is eating her bucket- its just normal for her.

our other mare who we bought at 16 (she turned out to be older!) also was handled while eating- we have no idea if she was in her previous home, and can be a bit of a tickly grouch, but she's never objected violently, so we carried on the way we did with our other horse.

none of them have ever been stressed by a groom while they eat- and they all eat VERY slowly, so i find it much more practical to do more than one thing at once. believe me, if whisper did not want me near her, she'd soon tell me! none have had any stomach problems- Tego is 40, whisper 18 and still fit and healthy, going strong- so i realy dont see hiw its done them any harm to be handled while eating.
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In this case, it hasn't. That's the point I'm trying to make. Until you find yourself with a new horse that, for reasons completely unknown to you, has become stressed around food, this issue of handling when eating seems really straightforward. So, we can choose whether we insist, and possibly just reinforce negative associations with feeding, or to leave them alone for a few minutes. Or to feed last thing before leaving when the jobs are done. I think that when we inherit a horse with food-related stress that situation has nothing to do with our "relationship" and everything to do with the horse's history. What we do next says everything about the relationship I suppose. Do we feel our relationship entitles us to force ourselves on the horse for that short space of time? Or do we feel secure enough to let them be for a little while? Knowing that in other respects the horse is fine? It's a matter of choice and personal principles I suppose.
 
Tinypony said:
In this case, it hasn't. That's the point I'm trying to make. Until you find yourself with a new horse that, for reasons completely unknown to you, has become stressed around food, this issue of handling when eating seems really straightforward. So, we can choose whether we insist, and possibly just reinforce negative associations with feeding, or to leave them alone for a few minutes. Or to feed last thing before leaving when the jobs are done. I think that when we inherit a horse with food-related stress that situation has nothing to do with our "relationship" and everything to do with the horse's history. What we do next says everything about the relationship I suppose. Do we feel our relationship entitles us to force ourselves on the horse for that short space of time? Or do we feel secure enough to let them be for a little while? Knowing that in other respects the horse is fine? It's a matter of choice and personal principles I suppose.
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exactly- i never said we should all handle when we feed- i mearly said that i always have- bearing in mind i have had one horse since birth and one from 2 yrs old.

i would not be getting into a fight about handling while feeding, if i bought a horse who had existing issues, but i would rather own a horse that i could handle or be around while it was eating if at all possible, as it works better for me and my situation.

as i also said, my horses are not stabled, if they were, then in the evenings yes, i probably would feed just before i leave, but handle in the morning- grooming, rugging,skipping out etc while they ate breakfast. its all very subjective to your own horses and facilities.
 
Sorry W+W, my post came out a bit muddled. I was trying to use your thread to explain to some others why it maybe isn't necessary to make an issue out of feed time for a horse that has some stress associated with that. Interesting how true equine behaviour experts seem to be pretty agreed on this one, and that the behaviour shouldn't be confronted.
 
Enfys said:
Reading a recent thread about youngsters kicking out got me wondering what people think about handling at feedtime.

Do you think a horse should be used to being handled when it is eating?

Or, that it should be left in peace to have his grub?

I am seriously hot on manners and won't tolerate any kind of rudeness, but I believe that a horse should be left in peace when eating. Maybe not a good thing, but none of my horses are ever handled when they have their faces in the trough.
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I too am serious on manners, only yesterday I brought a diy horse in ( lacks manners) as I grabbed her headcollar she yanked her head up and back pulling my shoulder back :mad:. Something she does allot needless to say she got the message I was not impressed.



I do handle them if ness when they are eating.


changing rugs - picking out feet- brushing off. We are fortunate that my lot don't mind, its up to owner to say if you cannot.

This is only done if say their rugs need changing, some say you should not but hey I am a one man/woman bandit time is money I can't stand around waiting till they finish to start changing the ones that need changing and if I turn the ones out who live in NZ then go do others when they are finished they wont stand still cos the others are out.

Each to their own but answer to your question if I have to I do.:)
 
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stargirl88 said:
Ive never even thought about it, I often faff around with things when my mare is eating, esp when I dont have time to wait for her to finish.

She really doesnt care. If I have to take her away from her food, I can (and have) despite the fact that she is a greedy cow.
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I can understand youngsters needing to learn an awful lot but I certainly do expect any adult horse that is well educated and with manners to be able to be handled at any time. Food or not. I think its dangerous concept to think that fluffy horse needs to be left to have "down time"(they have all night in stable or field 24/7 etc). Again if I needed to do something whilst horse was eating I certainly never gave it a second thought and did it. I also agree with above same thing. Am astounded that anyone with common sense thinks a horse should be left alone for some time to reflect! If they are like that something went wrong somewhere in its education. I constantly read on here how important ground manners are with youngsters and the recommendation to owners to take horse back to basics.Human error will be the cause of bad behaviour. So yes definitely handle.
 
indie999 said:
I can understand youngsters needing to learn an awful lot but I certainly do expect any adult horse that is well educated and with manners to be able to be handled at any time. Food or not. I think its dangerous concept to think that fluffy horse needs to be left to have "down time"(they have all night in stable or field 24/7 etc). Again if I needed to do something whilst horse was eating I certainly never gave it a second thought and did it. I also agree with above same thing. Am astounded that anyone with common sense thinks a horse should be left alone for some time to reflect! If they are like that something went wrong somewhere in its education. I constantly read on here how important ground manners are with youngsters and the recommendation to owners to take horse back to basics.Human error will be the cause of bad behaviour. So yes definitely handle.
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Specially if the horse is on box rest needs to know that we humans have a right to be in their boudoir at any time and do what ever we need to do.

This reminds of a livery a few years back (horrid horse needed the gun)

  • If you go in there to skip it out it backs into to you to kick you... and does,even if you tie it up.
  • If you turn your back to it whilst mucking out. again it backs into you.
  • If you try groom it it turns round , fangs open and bites.
  • If you put rugs on it will bite you what ever your doing (belly straps etc)
  • If you do leg straps up it cow kicks at you .

Owner says to me (if he tries to bite just pinch a bit of skin as if you hit him he will come at you more.)

Owners groom had to rescued once as it had pined her in corner double barreling her (she would have died if not rescued)

So when he did turn to bite he got my fist, after that I only had to warn him with fist
When he did raise a leg to make contact my foot contact got him first, again after that I only had to raise a leg and he put his down.

This horse was not a nice horse the anger and evil in its face:mad:
 
My horses are fed and not touched. Unless you want to lose your head! I wouldn't interrupt my dogs eating and the horses are left the same way. One of mine is very aggressive around his feed and if anyone else feeds him I have to make sure they do not touch him when he is eating - no patting, no rug moving etc. Walk into stable, feed in manger and then straight out and all be be fine!
 
Tinypony said:
In this case, it hasn't. That's the point I'm trying to make. Until you find yourself with a new horse that, for reasons completely unknown to you, has become stressed around food, this issue of handling when eating seems really straightforward. So, we can choose whether we insist, and possibly just reinforce negative associations with feeding, or to leave them alone for a few minutes. Or to feed last thing before leaving when the jobs are done. I think that when we inherit a horse with food-related stress that situation has nothing to do with our "relationship" and everything to do with the horse's history. What we do next says everything about the relationship I suppose. Do we feel our relationship entitles us to force ourselves on the horse for that short space of time? Or do we feel secure enough to let them be for a little while? Knowing that in other respects the horse is fine? It's a matter of choice and personal principles I suppose.
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Does the issue have to be so black and white? If I did have a horse that was aggressive/nervous to me being close to it when feeding, I think I'd want to train it out of the habit, because habit is what it is.

By this I mean standing close by but on the edge of the horse's comfort zone. Every day, I'd hope I could move a little closer, perhaps move my arms about, etc. so it got used to every day things when it was feeding and gradually learnt that they are not a threat.

What is the cause of the nervousness or aggression? Often, it is because the animal fears it's food will be taken away, possibly by another horse? So it is a matter of slowly reassuring the horse that that isn't going to happen, at least with humans.

I use general terms because this is not a problem associated just with horses. Lots of animals (and birds) resent having their food taken away! (Including me!). I used to train hawks and having a 1.5kgs goshawk resent your interference isn't very nice. You'll probably get a bunch of very nasty black talons in your face! But that can be solved by the softly-softly approach and gently eroding the aggression so it actually appreciates you helping it with it's meat with your bare hands. Can't be that much different with horses and it certainly works with dogs.
 
Aces_High said:
My horses are fed and not touched. Unless you want to lose your head! I wouldn't interrupt my dogs eating and the horses are left the same way. One of mine is very aggressive around his feed and if anyone else feeds him I have to make sure they do not touch him when he is eating - no patting, no rug moving etc. Walk into stable, feed in manger and then straight out and all be be fine!
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Sorry but I would not put up with that or could not have a horse like that.

Horses have to respect, and as for dogs they have to go through food aggression before they get re homed so. That would not be an issue as you know you can touch dog or remove his bowl if needs be.

For me the horses are the same there might be an instant where you have to remove the feed from them.
 
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Leviathan said:
Sorry but I would not put up with that or could not have a horse like that.

Horses have to respect, and as for dogs they have to go through food aggression before they get re homed so. That would not be an issue as you know you can touch dog or remove his bowl if needs be.

For me the horses are the same there might be an instant where you have to remove the feed from them.
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Sometimes we just have to get on with it. I have had the horse since he was a yearling and he's now 21 and he won't change. He cannot be fed in a paddock near another horse as he is very protective. It's a quirk and I work with it. I will add that he had a very busy life and isn't a horse for the novice or someone who isn't confident. I could move his feed manger if I was there but I wouldn't expect or ask anyone else to.
 
Aces_High said:
Sometimes we just have to get on with it. I have had the horse since he was a yearling and he's now 21 and he won't change. He cannot be fed in a paddock near another horse as he is very protective. It's a quirk and I work with it. I will add that he had a very busy life and isn't a horse for the novice or someone who isn't confident. I could move his feed manger if I was there but I wouldn't expect or ask anyone else to.
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I would have nipped that behaviour in the bud when he was a yearling, this is the time to start the training which some here would ask * why did you not sort this out when he was a yearling* you could have corrected it then by yourself or animal behaviorist?


My mare used to kick the door I got her as a yearling she is now 24 after an initial training she stopped kicking the door and has not done it since.

This horse I mentioned above was nasty, corrected when they are young there is no excuse for bad behaviour. If you get it later in life its hard to change but with help you can improve things.

Another horse Mac was very aggressive around feed times again wasn't corrected when young, he nearly killed the little shetland when he got into his field. This horse was also nasty in the stable you had to carry the haynet between you and him and the feedbowl you had to chuck over the door before he lunged at you

I have said my bit now :) all my horses know whats accepted though they try it on they no how far to go and wont cross the line.

Count yourself lucky nothing has happened yet.

An Arab mare call Fey was nasty at feed times, she was a livery at the riding school one of the working pupils did nothing but go in with a haynet and was just tying it up when Fey lunged at her and bit her on the face bad and needed stitches. My friend Kate could have taken things allot further than she did.
 
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I cannot believe this post is still running! Honestly, who really cares whether A touches their horse whilst its eating and B and C choose not to and that D can't (even when they want to.)

Seriously guys. :D
 
Leviathan said:
I would have nipped that behaviour in the bud when he was a yearling, this is the time to start the training which some here would ask * why did you not sort this out when he was a yearling* you could have corrected it then by yourself or animal behaviorist?


My mare used to kick the door I got her as a yearling she is now 24 after an initial training she stopped kicking the door and has not done it since.

This horse I mentioned above was nasty, corrected when they are young there is no excuse for bad behaviour. If you get it later in life its hard to change but with help you can improve things.

Another horse Mac was very aggressive around feed times again wasn't corrected when young, he nearly killed the little shetland when he got into his field. This horse was also nasty in the stable you had to carry the haynet between you and him and the feedbowl you had to chuck over the door before he lunged at you

I have said my bit now :) all my horses know whats accepted though they try it on they no how far to go and wont cross the line.

Count yourself lucky nothing has happened yet.

An Arab mare call Fey was nasty at feed times, she was a livery at the riding school one of the working pupils did nothing but go in with a haynet and was just tying it up when Fey lunged at her and bit her on the face bad and needed stitches. My friend Kate could have taken things allot further than she did.
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OK - I am VERY strict and insist that they do as they are told. I tell them 'over' they move, 'back' they reverse etc. Until recently I worked on a professional basis with racehorses so I am aware of manners and horse management. I keep my horses at home so he isn't a threat to anyone. The horse was in training for about 6 years and it's just one of those things he does. He wouldn't lunge at you to bite but yes he kicks and he double barrels so don't stand behind him and don't mess with him when he eats. Simple really! As I said if you are confident with him all is well. I won't get involved with my views on animal behavourists :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....!!
 
I handle mine when they eat- pick hooves, change rugs, give them a little brush, whatever really. They have a lot of time to themselves during the course of the day so I don't feel bad about it, they don't seem to mind either.
 
skint1 said:
I handle mine when they eat- pick hooves, change rugs, give them a little brush, whatever really. They have a lot of time to themselves during the course of the day so I don't feel bad about it, they don't seem to mind either.
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ditto
actually i often use food as a distraction - yesterday she ate whilst i cleaned a small scuff on her fetlock - if i'd tried to do it when she wasnt distracted she'd be certain it was a massive gauge out of her and i was trying to kill her :rolleyes:
so food = distraction = no fuss :D
 
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