Feeding for Muscle not weight gain

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Event_girl

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What can I feed my mare to help her gain muscle, not fat. She is a very good doer on restricted grazing and gets literally a handful of feed just to put a vit and min supplement in and that's it.

She is a good weight at the moment but I would like her to build up some more muscle. What can I add to her feed that will work alongside correct work?

I have heard lysine might help but I don't know how much I should be adding?
 
what vit supplement are you feeding? It might be worth ensuring its a good spec one or changing for a balancer with a good level of protein.
 
Im my experience its more work that builds up muscle than feed. My pony is prone to laminitis so need to keep weight down but she has good muscle tone. She is only on happy hoof but is worked 6 times a week either ridden in a working outline in the school for 30mins, hacking in an outline up and down hills or lunged in a pessoa. Its working for me :)
 
Thanks, I will be working her but wondered if there was a supplement that would help alongside.

Does anyone feed lysine? If so, do you think it makes a difference?
 
I feed lysine - I was going to try equitop myoplast but it was so expensive. Only been on lysine 3 weeks but I have noticed quite a difference, but horse is being worked hard in conjunction with it.
 
rather than feeding lysine , you could just look at a balancer with a good level of protein! Even Baileys Low Cal has a decent level and my last horse was very well muscled on it, without being fat. Yes, you need to work them in the correct way but they in turn need the correct nutrients to build muscle. I feed a just grass chaff which i chose as it is low in sugar and high in protein, plus forage plus balancer.
 
travelmad said:
I feed lysine - I was going to try equitop myoplast but it was so expensive. Only been on lysine 3 weeks but I have noticed quite a difference, but horse is being worked hard in conjunction with it.
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Interesting, thanks.

How much do you feed and how much work/what work are you doing?
 
NeverSayNever said:
rather than feeding lysine , you could just look at a balancer with a good level of protein! Even Baileys Low Cal has a decent level and my last horse was very well muscled on it, without being fat. Yes, you need to work them in the correct way but they in turn need the correct nutrients to build muscle. I feed a just grass chaff which i chose as it is low in sugar and high in protein, plus forage plus balancer.
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She was on Baileys lo cal over winter and managed to gain weight on it (fat)!
 
Event_girl said:
Thanks will take a look at forage plus :)

I thought Linseed what for weight gain?
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yes it promotes condition but you can vary the quantity you feed of course and its a good protein source.. my Sec D mare hasnt put on any weight with it over winter. How much work is your horse actually in, it may be that if he/she put on even on the lowcal that simply upping the work, or type of work might achieve what you want?
 
Myoplast is based on an algae and as far I know it is Spirulina.

Lysin is essential for muscles but now there is the big BUT..........

A horse in realy work will need about 40 - 45 gramm of lysine per day and then again lysine is an ordinary aminoacid and with this a part of the protein or a buildingblock of protein. There is many others as well like methionine and many others.

But protein is nothing else than aminoacids.

Now 1 KG of this algae Spirulina will contain about 40 gram of lysine.

The daily recommended meassure for a horse of the myoplast is 50 gram. And these 50 gramm are not pure algae, there is some other ingredients in as well for to make it more tasty.

You will end up with about 25 gram of this algae and this will contain 1 gram of lysine.

This is the same amount of lysine like in 250 gram of oats and it would not make any difference to have it or not to have it.

At the same time you will have 6 gram of lysine out of one KG of beet pulp or you will have about 30 gram of lysine out of one KG soybean meal.

Soybean meal is a very common ingredient for many horse feeds.

If you feed 100 gramm of soybean meal you will have three times the amount of lysine like with in one recommended dose of myoplast.

And that is about 4 or 5 Cent.

But again, muscles don´t grow from this alone and also not from 1 or three gram.

Either the diet fits and the way of training as well or not.
 
NeverSayNever said:
rather than feeding lysine , you could just look at a balancer with a good level of protein! Even Baileys Low Cal has a decent level and my last horse was very well muscled on it, without being fat. Yes, you need to work them in the correct way but they in turn need the correct nutrients to build muscle. I feed a just grass chaff which i chose as it is low in sugar and high in protein, plus forage plus balancer.
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Lysine is the most important supplement that you can feed - It's the first limiting Amino Acid - basically if there is insufficient you can feed protein till the cows come home with no benefit.

The best way is to ensure that you have a good balancer that contains Lysine and no carboydrates! Feed it with Meadow Chaff to assist digestion.

Work in a correct outline along with the correct balance of protein - most horses need no more than 8 - 10% protein builds the best muscle. Excess is excreted in the urine - if you are feeding too much protein you'll notice a very strong smell to the urine.
 
tallyho! said:
It doesn't do a thing!!!

Waste of money.
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I think your right however I think it will do something but just not anything more than feeding some good quality protein sources in the diet.
I went to talk by the people who make it the rep actually said in the talk I was I pearls ie its little round things and dressage ladies like to feed their horses pearls .
What was interesting was that they did echo the last nutritionist I had here in saying that horses in hard work and those on strict diets can lack protein in the diet if they are turned out a lot and on forage type diets but her advice was cheaper and simpler feed some oats and some linseed or alfalfa .
 
Thank you for all the info.... but now I'm confused!!

Will adding lysine to her feed help? Will it do any harm if I try it?

Or would it be better to feed some alfalfa with some linseed?
 
Event_girl said:
Thank you for all the info.... but now I'm confused!!

Will adding lysine to her feed help? Will it do any harm if I try it?

Or would it be better to feed some alfalfa with some linseed?
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Lysine is naturally present in most proteins I think but oats is a good way to get them into a horse ( something to do with the digestion of the grains starting in the gut directly behind the stomach where fibre sources are broken down further back I dredging up what the nutritionist told me )
I have no idea how much lysine you would feed I avoid supplementing like this preferring to get things into the horse in food.
However the progressive earth e bay shop sell lysine I think, so contacting them might help.
 
Goldenstar said:
Lysine is naturally present in most proteins I think but oats is a good way to get them into a horse ( something to do with the digestion of the grains starting in the gut directly behind the stomach where fibre sources are broken down further back I dredging up what the nutritionist told me )
I have no idea how much lysine you would feed I avoid supplementing like this preferring to get things into the horse in food.
However the progressive earth e bay shop sell lysine I think, so contacting them might help.
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Thank you I will try contacting them
 
Goldenstar said:
Lysine is naturally present in most proteins I think but oats is a good way to get them into a horse ( something to do with the digestion of the grains starting in the gut directly behind the stomach where fibre sources are broken down further back I dredging up what the nutritionist told me )
I have no idea how much lysine you would feed I avoid supplementing like this preferring to get things into the horse in food.
However the progressive earth e bay shop sell lysine I think, so contacting them might help.
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Unfortunately Lysine is not present in sufficient quantity in any horse food - it is also the first limiting amino acid - basically means it limits the use of all the others. It is the one amino acid that needs to be given as a supplement.

For more info see http://www.thehorse.com/articles/25092/horse-lysine-requirements-focus-of-study
 
Alfalfa is very often overrated.

The marketing about this is the saying good protein source and some times as well low in sugar.

But this is spottet too much on these two points and not considering in the other effects.

The amount of lysine in one KG Alfalfa is about the same like with in one KG of beet pulp. It is about 6 gram per KG and with this nothing special.

But alfalfa has a horrible calcium - phosphorous ratio and feeding this can kill the ratio in the whole diet. Depending on how much we feed.

As well alfalfa is a great donor of phytin and this can suppress the uptake of zinc.

As well an overamount of calcium can do this.

But zinc again is essentiell in the metabolism of protein and carbs, as well in over 300 enzymatic processes in the horse.

And zinc is also essentiell for the DNA and with this cell dividing process.


I believe there is a hype about alfalfa because it is easy to plant and harvest but it will sell for the multiple money of hay. So it is a cash cow but not really a wonder plant.

It was more or less used as a cheap protein plant for to fatten cattle and others but now we have the well paying and believing horse market.
 
Both forageplus and progressive earth on Ebay will sell you straight Lysine as well as balancers that contain, it is difficult to find it naturally occurring in reasonable quantities in most feeds. I believe Soya bean meal is a reasonable natural source.

Lysine isn't expensive to buy if you want to try it. I feed a 10 - 15 ml supplement scoop daily to a big horse.
 
Protein promotes good muscle development. So work the socks off her, then you can start feeding her more protein.

It's as simple as that really.
 
well i never - i didnt realise before this thread but the forage plus balancer i feed contains lysine anyway

http://shop.forageplus.com/Forageplus-Winter-Equine-Balancer
Each 100 grams contains: Oil 7.43%, Protein 16.73% and DE 6.98 MJ/kg
21 grams of micronised linseed, 10 grams lysine, 5 grams phosphorous (mono-sodium phosphate), 12 grams magnesium (magnesium oxide), 400 mg copper (bioplex), 1200mg zinc (bioplex), 1 mg selenium (yeast), 5 grams salt, 2000 iu vtamin E.
 
criso said:
Both forageplus and progressive earth on Ebay will sell you straight Lysine as well as balancers that contain, it is difficult to find it naturally occurring in reasonable quantities in most feeds. I believe Soya bean meal is a reasonable natural source.

Lysine isn't expensive to buy if you want to try it. I feed a 10 - 15 ml supplement scoop daily to a big horse.
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Thanks. So feeding it to see if it makes a difference won't do any harm?
 
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