Feeding Forage

fidleyspromise

fidleyspromise

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I have noticed that there seems there are 2 main trains of thoughts with how to feed this. Ad Lib or to horses bodyweight. It seems to be either because of being concerned about weight, some horses eat waaay too quickly regardless of amount and concerns of leaving horses without food for long periods.

Obviously, some horses will do better for having forage 24*7 but surely there are also others that it would be detrimental to and it's best to treat each horse as an individual? Some opinions seem to be it's my way or no way and I'm interetested in hearoing other point of views.

Personally I have always gone by mix of body weight / judging horse's condition. I have two natives, living out and if I fed hay 24*7, they would stuff themselves stupid and become overweight (as has happened to my friend's).
This would not be in my animals interests as they would then become obese which I am trying to avoid. They get weighed hay daily twice a day which I personally feel is enough for them. Although, if the weather is nasty, I'm not averse to putting extra out.


Please note, this is not aimed at anyone and nor am I saying anyone is wrong in how they manage their horses. I am simply interested in learning more as to why people have the system that they do or indeed the reasons as to why they won't feed a specific way especially this time of year when there is no grass :)
 
Mine graze 24/7 over 5 acres - I have 3 horses 1 7yr old mare who is heading to a friends on the hills to lose some weight, but the other two are youngsters so have free access to the grazing. I rarely hard feed and give minerals via a large multi mineral block that is left in the paddock so they can help themselves.

Definately judge what to feed by the good old Pony Club Rules - feed according to work, fitness, temperement, riders ability, horses age and condition. Preferably half of the daily feed should be fibre - grass/hay/haylage, never less than a third.

I don't like horses being on strip grazing as it usually means they have inadequate space to move around in - it also hammers the grazing itself as the horse walks constantly up and down the same area. Horses/Ponies need space to hoon around - they do less damage to themselves if they have more space.
 
I don't understand why a lot of people don't have grazing at this time of year ( its only beg of Dec!!)

People should learn how to manage grazing; Natives can live off very little, and my two barely use half an acre from April to November. They then have 3 acres for the rest of the time which is sectioned into three paddocks which are rotated. I never feed hay in the field,

I understand people don't have a choice if they are on livery, but I wouldn't have mine anywhere where I couldn't manage their individual needs.

I started using a track system a few years ago in their summer paddock, it works really well ( the track goes around a large pond and then around their half acre paddock so like a figure of eight!)

The key is exercise no different from humans
 
I don't have grazing, partly because it is a small area that feeds a native and 16hh standardbred plus sheep in the summer. I have used a track system for two natives before, but it doesn't work as well when you have one good doer that needs restricting and a poor doer. I feed hay year round to the restricted good doer. I've also been struggling with over two feet of snow for the past few weeks!

I do feed the good doer by bodyweight as otherwise she'd eat until she burst and it can be difficult finding fibre sources that are low nutritionally but still good quality. With a poor doer/'normal' horse I've no qualms about feeding ad-lib, although with the looming forage shortages I think people may have to rethink how much they are feeding.
 
Angieand Ben - there are few livery yards near me. My horses are settled where they are now and get upset when moved.
Being on livery, reduces what you can do greatly. I have 2 small paddocks to rotate with my 2 but the grass very quickly went. - it didn't grow well in the first place this year.
Our paddocks are under snow and ice so ponies would have nothing to eat if I didn't put hay out.

Yes, I'm feeding hay but I believe I meet their needs well. They are both healthy, content and have every basic need met. :)
 
AngieandBen said:
I don't understand why a lot of people don't have grazing at this time of year ( its only beg of Dec!!)
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Ermmmm ... perhaps the freezing cold temperatures and heavy snowfalls might have something to do with it!:rolleyes:

I have three horses on just over 2.5 acres, so although I manage it well and there is always a little grass, there is no way enough to maintain their condition over the winter, so I feed hay in the field. As long as they get plenty of turnout and keep good condition I can't see what the problem is with that!

They come in overnight and the two 16 handers get ad lib hay, but my 14.3hh part native is a very good doer so her hay is rationed. The trick when rationing is to make sure they don't spend too long without fibre in their bellies, so giving hay little and often, rather one big net.
 
I used to feed my Welsh D ad lib and get through a good 200 bales per year for him alone! I was feeding him hay all year in the field as he was on restricted grazing...I have since learn't the hard way that he can survive most of the year on half an acre of nibbling and he is in at night on rationed hay. I have worked out how much he needs by weight each night in hay and that is what he has all year. Even though this means he is left for periods with nothing to eat until I let him out at 5.30am...it is a compromise to avoid excess weight and laminitis.
In winter I have the rest of the field to strip graze him onto and have more than enough even when it is covered by 2 foot of snow.
So whilst he is not able to ever stuff his face constantly and has to nibble at available grass all year and does not have hay to last all night in the stable...he DOES have turnout for 12 hours every day of the year over a good area and is not carrying huge excesses of weight around.
 
I used to always feed hay ad-lib but I have such a good doer who doesn't seem to have a "full up" button :), honestly she would eat until she burst. She had a bout of lami in March and now her hay gets weighed, soaked and double netted. She is on restricted grazing and goes out muzzled.
 
It can be hard with good doers - I would love to be able to feed hay adlib but my boy will just eat how ever much I give him. He is quite fat enough as it is!

Even when in full work he couldn't be given adlib hay, has always needed to be kept on poor grazing, and has never been given hard feed. Managing his weight was a challenge even when he was being worked intensely for at least an hour every day. Now that he's retired I have a constant battle to make sure he isn't hungry and unhappy while keeping his weight off.

Hoenstly, if I posted a pic of him you'd all tell me he is too fat (which he is). And when I tell you that he finishes all his night hay within two hours I'll no doubt be told that he shouldn't stand overnight with no forage (which is true). But until someone invents a magic no-calorie feed stuff for horses there isn't a great deal I can do. :)
 
AngieandBen said:
I don't understand why a lot of people don't have grazing at this time of year ( its only beg of Dec!!)
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Sadly our top paddock (on gravel, very well drained) didn't recover from being burnt off in the dry weather to be flush with grass. It grew back but very very sparsely. It'll be reseeded in the spring. We manage, but managing can be difficult if you don't have ideal land or very much of it in the first place (kept at home). Our hay crop was 1/3 of the 2009 crop, which reflects how dry it was.
 
Steorra said:
It can be hard with good doers - I would love to be able to feed hay adlib but my boy will just eat how ever much I give him. He is quite fat enough as it is!

Even when in full work he couldn't be given adlib hay, has always needed to be kept on poor grazing, and has never been given hard feed. Managing his weight was a challenge even when he was being worked intensely for at least an hour every day. Now that he's retired I have a constant battle to make sure he isn't hungry and unhappy while keeping his weight off.

Hoenstly, if I posted a pic of him you'd all tell me he is too fat (which he is). And when I tell you that he finishes all his night hay within two hours I'll no doubt be told that he shouldn't stand overnight with no forage (which is true). But until someone invents a magic no-calorie feed stuff for horses there isn't a great deal I can do. :)
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I have a very similar TB who has retired this year due to injury at just 12 years of age. His brain seems to tell him he is starving all day and all night and he will never stop eating. If I fed ad lib I could put 5 bales of hay in his stable at night and it will still all be gone in the morning. He might not be able to fit through the door to get out though!

I feed him some hay in the field whilst he is out to stop him charging around when bored of looking for grass at the moment and split his night time hay into two seperate feeds in the smallest holed haynet I can find. Luckily living on site I can put his last haynet in just before I go to bed. I tried double netting but he has discovered if he tries hard enough he can destroy the outer net and remove the inner one. I also mix in straw which he will not eat but has to pick around to get the hay. He can get through a massive haynet with small holes in under 2 hours. I'm sure he doesn't stop to breath. Some horses are just pigs and for their own health have to be restricted. I'd rather he stood in the stable for 8 hours without anything than had health problems from obesity. He is clear from ulcers and is the picture of health albeit a little on the overweight side.

I'd love to feed him adlib like my native pony who stops eating when he's had his fill but it just isn't safe to.
 
Even with very good doer's, there is no excuse for horses to be left for hours without anything to eat.

If you have a very good doer, feed them regularly in small amounts. Soaking hay for hours will remove the nutritional content but give the horse plenty to nibble on to keep the stomach working how it is meant to. Double netting small net haynets works well and will keep a steady stream of feed going through the gut.

I have no problems with horses being on restricted feed, as a lot aren't worked enough, and are good doers. My pet hate is when a horse is given hay at 4pm which lasts them an hour, and then get nothing until 8am the next morning. Even the best doer can have 3 soaked sections split into three small holed haynets (double netted) and tied up around the stable to last the horse several hours, or a net left to be put in later at night.

For the record, my mare used to be a complete pig as she was used to restricted haylage, she would happliy polish off 4 sections of hay in 2 hours. I have fed her ad lib since I have had her, and she now regulates what she eats. She is still gutsy, but because she is never without, she doesn't guzzle.
 
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mine are similar to KatB. They are in a fairly well covered 6 acre field, and have a large square bale of haylage in a feeder. Last year i was going through two bales a week (3 hoses) but its now more than halved to one every 10 days (even though I now have 4) because they no longer gorge themselves silly and they can help themselves little and often. All four were led out sleeping in the sunshine this morning, not at all interested in eating.
 
KatB What do you suggest I do then?

Should I get up every 4 hours in the night to put another net in? My nets are already soaked for 12 hours to get as much nutrients out as possible. He has hay when he comes in at 2.30, another at 6.00pm and another at 9.30pm. He will still have finished the last one before midnight and it is not a small net. 3 sections in three nets would still last my horse 2 hours! Believe me I don't want him to stand in for hours without food but I've tried everything and it is just impossible. I also leave him with a net of good quality straw in the hope that if he is desperate he will eat that. But he hardly ever touches it.

Its horses for courses I'm afraid and some horses no matter how hard you try to feed ad lib it is just not possible. I have put in double the amount he is getting which would probably be about 5% of his bodyweight or more and it is still all gone without a trace in the morning. Feeding him that much is more unhealthy than him standing without.
 
I have a mixture of animals some are natives, if you give thm as much as they want to eat they would as some farmers say 'eat themselves off their feet'. They would be laminetic in spring, the only time they loose any weight is in winter.
Yes the horse is a trickle feeder but they eat large amounts of low food value stuff, they are not tucked up in nice rugs and walk for miles looking for food.
My fatties get at this time of year get mainly barley straw with a bit of hay and a feed supplement. The ones that need more get haylage and a hard food and straw to pick on if they need something to chew.
The last time put a round bale of hay in the field a pony used it for a couch whilist he eat the middle!
 
I also leave him with a net of good quality straw in the hope that if he is desperate he will eat that. But he hardly ever touches it.
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Therefore he can't be hungry if he has the option of something else to eat and chooses not to :) . I do completely understand where you are coming from, but by the sounds of things your horse has the option of something else to eat, so isn't completely without. It's the people who literally give the horse the last net at 4pm and then nothing until 8am which annoy me! :p ;) The only thing you could try (or may have already!) is to mix straw with hay in a net to slow him down further? :)
 
KatB said:
The only thing you could try (or may have already!) is to mix straw with hay in a net to slow him down further? :)
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Sadly already tried that. I put straw in the hay as well as around the edge of the net. He pulls it out to get to the hay! So I think we are agreed that some horses just feel they have to eat even if they are not hungry it seems so therefore should not get adlib hay.
 
Well aware that we have had snow! but surely you must have grass underneath the snow? It surely cant all be gone already?

My winter field is left to grow very long, even with snow the ponies can still dig for grass.

Too many horses on too little land = false economy imo

Oh and I have 3 acres I don't even use, tried to rent it out but people weren't prepared to pay £20 a week and put up a bit of electric fencing.
 
KatB said:
Therefore he can't be hungry if he has the option of something else to eat and chooses not to :) . I do completely understand where you are coming from, but by the sounds of things your horse has the option of something else to eat, so isn't completely without. It's the people who literally give the horse the last net at 4pm and then nothing until 8am which annoy me! :p ;) The only thing you could try (or may have already!) is to mix straw with hay in a net to slow him down further? :)
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A lady I know fetches her 13.2hh pony in ( a very good doer ) at 4pm, he has 1 section of hay to last him to 7am :O and she wonders why he grabs at anything in his path and is still overweight ( think starvation mode )
 
i have 1 very good doer kept at home in 12 acres .

muzzled from start of april till end of sep while in field.
stabled overnight all year round , use paddock pillow for feeding hay in stable keeps her busy , always has hay.

snow covers ground for 4-5 months of year here.
in winter i let her use 4 acres .
i use paddock pillow for feeding hay on ground in field . keeps her busy, always has hay .
 
bounce said:
Sadly already tried that. I put straw in the hay as well as around the edge of the net. He pulls it out to get to the hay! So I think we are agreed that some horses just feel they have to eat even if they are not hungry it seems so therefore should not get adlib hay.
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I never said everything should be ad lib ;) Just they shouldn't be left for hours without anything to eat, which we have established yours isn't :)
 
AngieandBen said:
Well aware that we have had snow! but surely you must have grass underneath the snow? It surely cant all be gone already?
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Firstly, whilst some native types might be able to dig through the snow enough to eat enough grass to maintain condition, a lot of horses won't. Therefore will need hay put out for them.

Secondly, low temperatures slow the growth rate of grass right down, so after snow has gone, the grass may not grow fast enough to replace what is eaten. [/quote]


Too many horses on too little land = false economy imo
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Easy to say, but no land for sale or rent adjoining our fields. Plus land prices extortionate in our locality. No point having land at home, and renting fields miles away - would rather pay for hay and have my horses under my watchful eye, thank you very much. And I'm not going to shoot or sell any of my horses whilst I am quite happy to supplement their grazing with hay!
 
I think it's hard work keeping good-doers! I find that they are okay kept on next to nothing in the summer but then it makes you paranoid about putting them on extra grass in the winter and I end up reverting to hay...

I just googled 'paddock pillow' to find out more info (I like to feed from floor but need to slow my good-doers down) and found this website for anyone interested?

http://www.naturalhorseworld.com/Article-Feeding.htm

Some interesting stuff on there about feeding ad-lib to stop them gorging themselves - I've been feeding 3 of mine ad-lib that live out 24/7 during the current very cold spell and was amazed to find plenty left over some mornings (they are drinking warm water so not dehydrated) so think there may be some truth in it. They are slightly fatter than I would like but not overly so. I think I will start rationing if and when it goes milder and will also have a re-think in February when Spring is around the corner.
 
christi said:
i have 1 very good doer kept at home in 12 acres .

muzzled from start of april till end of sep while in field.
stabled overnight all year round , use paddock pillow for feeding hay in stable keeps her busy , always has hay.

snow covers ground for 4-5 months of year here.
in winter i let her use 4 acres .
i use paddock pillow for feeding hay on ground in field . keeps her busy, always has hay .
Click to expand...

Never heard of a paddock pillow - just had a quick google. Do you make your own?
 
AngieandBen said:
Oh and I have 3 acres I don't even use, tried to rent it out but people weren't prepared to pay £20 a week and put up a bit of electric fencing.
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You wanted someone to pay you over a grand a year for land and fence it themselves:confused::eek:

I assume you are in the south of England as you don't seem to get the same snow we have in Scotland (digging up 2 foot of snow to find grass - the ponies would create avalanches :o), so maybe that seems a reasonable price to you, but it certainly isn't round my neck of the woods.
 
A horse should always have forage, unless it's recovering from colic or something similar. If you have a problem with a fat horse then triple haynet it if you have to, and soak it so there's barely any calories in it. But then they still have hay passing through their gut, even if it's barely a few mouth fulls an hour. It's disgusting how many people leave a horse without hay all night, just because its 'fat' - well exercise it more then!
 
Funnily enough I have already thought of those things, Seth. And still my horse has to be on restricted forage because he is fat. I can't exercise him - he is retted for a reason. I wish the world I live in was as straight forward as yours seems to be.

If you have a type that can have ad lib hay then give it - don't dispute that horses arre happier and healthier if they have food to pick at all the time. But please don't judge hose of us who manage our horses dfferently for the sake of their health. Should I let my arthritic horse get grossly overweight and put more strain on his joints? I think not.
 
Funnily enough I have already thought of those things, Seth. And still my horse has to be on restricted forage because he is fat. I can't exercise him - he is retired for a reason. I wish the world I live in was as straight forward as yours seems to be.

If you have a type that can have ad lib hay then give it - don't dispute that horses are happier and healthier if they have food to pick at all the time. But please don't judge those of us who manage our horses dfferently for the sake of their health. Should I let my arthritic horse get grossly overweight and put more strain on his joints? I think not.
 
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