feeding native foal - stud mix or normal mix?

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tinker88

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I bought my 7month old foal stud mix when we first picked him up, hes been having that with some forage mix,

he is stabled at night, fed adlib good haylage, has a breakfast of mix,chop & sugar beet (its the y/o specialty and thats what they get! no ifs and buts - set in his way) and has some mix at night

do you think he needs "stud" mix ? i personally dont? and he looks well, has grown well - and i dont want him to over grow (ie- get too much and shoot up instead of taking his time over his growth)
 
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i feed native babies fibre cubes, chaff & what ever beet the rest are getting. ie i do not feed them stud feed in any form.
 
id be going along the lines of no mix at all!
Im not a mix fan, especially for babies, especially especially for a native pony!

Id be inclined to give the same as ginnieredwings, ad lib hay/haylage and a mineral lick. If you HAVE to feed because everyone else gets fed, a handful of chop would suffice.
x
 
I'd go with no feed at all too, especially for a native! I'd keep up the add lib haylage with just a mineral lick for his vitamins, he doesn't need anything else!! You want him to come out of winter on the lean and slightly ribby side so you don't have to restrict grazing in the spring!!!
I've never fed any of my youngsters and they have been anything from arab and TB, partbreds to pure friesians and all have just had addlib haylage with vitamins and they have all been just fine, I'd also avoid chop/chaff with youngsters as it can cause choke.
 
i defo have to feed something cos when we first got it he had cold for 10 days and dropped weight, and last week got cast, injured his back & has made a right mess of his leg....poor boy was in some pain & stiff so he also dropped weight then :(

hes not thin but hes certainly no fat chunker. lol

im hoping to turn him out maybe feb/march time to play but with all thats happened im keeping him in through the thick of winter and to be handled etc, so im hoping that i can throw him out when the weather improves a bit.

We are keeping him entire also so colts/stallions always seem not get as fat as geldings.

I didnt realise how many people dont feed foals!
Iam molly coddlling him i know, but hes my horsie of a lifetime!
 
tinker88 said:
im hoping to turn him out maybe feb/march time to play but with all thats happened im keeping him in through the thick of winter and to be handled etc, so im hoping that i can throw him out when the weather improves a bit.

We are keeping him entire also so colts/stallions always seem not get as fat as geldings.

QUOTE]


So is he getting any turnout at all?

Is he able to play and interact with others? Maybe in a big barn or pen if you really can't turn the poor thing out?

That has to be the craziest excuse for not gelding a non breeding stallion that I have ever read.
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tinker88 said:
I didnt realise how many people dont feed foals!
Iam molly coddlling him i know, but hes my horsie of a lifetime!
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I was exactly the same!!!!! I know where you are coming from, I did so much research befoire having my baby and spoke to loads of nutritionists who all said to feed her loads so I did as I was advised by "the experts".

After physitis and vets bills I found this forum and some massively knowledgeable people, see my everyone please read this, post!

For any baby, do what GinnieRedwings says and if you have to feed, give as little calories and protein as possible, just carrots possibly? If he is your horse of a lifetime, dont mollycoddle him, his joints and bones and all will be much better and last that much longer giving him time to grow really really slowly on just hay and min/vits.

I know you said he lost weight so understand why you feel this way but the best thing for helping him get back to normal is fibre, fibre, fibre.

Good luck! xxx
 
What gives you the impression that colts/stallions dont get as fat as geldings?

Id be seriously considering the decision to keep him entire if its for non breeding purposes and let the poor baby go out and play with some friends :(
x
 
Toast said:
What gives you the impression that colts/stallions dont get as fat as geldings?

Id be seriously considering the decision to keep him entire if its for non breeding purposes and let the poor baby go out and play with some friends :(
x
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re - "What gives you the impression that colts/stallions dont get as fat as geldings?"

that every stallion/colt i have ever owned has always kept waaaaaayyy more trim then any gelding, even when kept the same and turned out the same

quote from dengie
"Just as for all horses and ponies, the individual stallion's energy requirements will vary according to a number of factors including breed and temperament. The is evidence that stallions generally have a greater energy requirement than mares or geldings with the same characteristics, probably about 10% more for maintenance in the non-breeding season. Once the stallion starts covering the number of covers he carries out, whether for mares or for collection for AI, largely determines his energy requirements. Covering mares can lead to an increased energy requirement of 20% over the stallion's maintenance level."

re - keeping him as a stallion, what would lead you to believe that i dont let him out? im wanting in spring to turn him away for a few months to just chill and grow

hes currently out now with my 4 geldings, and will be the same is summer, hes staying as a stallion (touch wood) to breed with, and also show at county level. We are hoping he is something special and have very good reason to think he is, i have been in undated with welsh studs requesting to handle/produce him next season and have him at stud asap. But we want to do everything our way, and not lock him way like soooo many studs do.

I have been planning all my life to have a horse like him and untill now havnt had the right facilities - now we have and he will live as much of a normal life as possible as my geldings do.
 
I wouldnt NOT feed your native foal, i would just NOT feed STUD mixes/pellets/balancers!

a balanced nut is fine (Baileys No 2 or Spillers Horse & Pony Cubs), with a good qaulity chaff added if needed and beet will give foal a good foundation to grow. I often give then Alfa A once winter is upon us.
 
tinker88 said:
im hoping to turn him out maybe feb/march time to play but with all thats happened im keeping him in through the thick of winter and to be handled etc, so im hoping that i can throw him out when the weather improves a bit.
!
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You did say he wasn't going out.
 
Please tell my stallions that they should be slim!!!:D Mine have always kept weight on really well - too well sometimes and need dieting, regardless of breed, but the native/chunkier types still put flab on just looking at the grass the same as any mare or gelding!!
The only time they may need the extra energy is if they are actually being used to cover a good few mares/collecting semen everyday or competing at the same time, or if kept out even in a bachelor herd, some do run fences and obviously don't then eat as much, but that is in the breeding season and usually when they hit 3 or more when they realise what nuts are for!!:D The Dengie thing you quoted is for stallions ie. over 4yrs old, and even a stallion just used for covering will only need extra vitamins/supplements and good grazing just to make sure his swimmers are strong!!

I have never had any difference weight wise between colts and geldings while they are growing. So regardless of wether you intend to keep his noodles on - he really only needs vitamins and fibre, any more and you risk putting on too much weight when he has the biggest growth spurt upwards - which is between weaning and yearling, so I'd rather have a slightly too lean youngster than an over fat one, weight is far easier to put on than take off!!!:D And also keep on top of regular worming.
I'd also chuck him out with your geldings over winter to grow and play, it's far healthier than being stabled on his own - obviously he will need access to shelter and have the add lib haylage and vitamin lick, but being out is far better for their development mentally and physically, now in particular when the weather is lovely and dry it's ideal for them!! You can still get them in every few days just for a 10min handling session to keep their manners in check, but other than that they really are better out being allowed to be horses.
All my boys have run in a bachelor herd their ages range from 10 months upwards, (I put newly weaned 6 month old foals in together and then buddy them up to an older youngster so they have some status when they meet their new herd and are that bit bigger at 10 months to play with the adults), I have both colts,geldings and stallions together and they are very chilled out and happy normal horses, you would never know some still have nuts and are breeding stallions, so it can be done and more people are doing it thank goodness - so well done for not wanting to stable your colt 24/7!!:D

I'd also be rather concerned - you say that welsh studs are wanting to show and produce him next year as a yearling - great - but you also said they want him to stand at stud as soon as possible!!:O If they are wanting to cover next year run screaming for the hills!!!:O Those are the sorts of people who shouldn't be breeding, or if they are are only after money!!!

He shouldn't be used to breed from until he is 3yrs at the very earliest, personally I leave till 4yrs old, colts semen isn't as good quality as they aren't fully mature, they are not always aware of social manners around mares when still a baby and are more likely to get kicked, which can be disastrous in a still growing joint, plus they can strain their hock joints, and as they are still gawky growing things you can't always tell wether they really are good enough to be used to breed from.
Ideally you cover a maximum of 4 mares at 3yrs old if at all, then up to 10 at 4yrs old, you can also get a better idea of his sperm count - I would always get a count done on any potential breeding stallion to make sure he does have viable tadpoles - could be very embarrassing if he doesn't and you've got mares visiting!!:D He will also have had more shows under his belt so will hopefully get better mares interested.
Do post some piccies of your little guy, we're all dying to see what he looks like!:D
 
I don't know much about feeding the colt/stallion, but my VERY experienced breeder friend (breeds WB SJ/Stressage horses) does not feed her youngsters hard feed AT ALL until they are being backed at 3yrs old, then she feeds a budget mix/cube with a broad spectrum supplement.....

You need to keep a youngster in the lean side whilst growing, this will avoid things like DJD (de-generative joint disease) and such like - you certainly do not want un-necessary strain on their young joints.......

A lot of people think that if you feed them well whilst growing, they will grow tall and make more height, but this is not true, a horse will genetically make whatever height he is supposed to make.... feed or no feed.
 
Ditto everyone who is saying nothing or next to nothing. I have an 18 month old who we have just measured at 16.3 and a bit!!! From a foal until now, he wasn't fit to show to anyone. Tall, thin, gangly, looked under nourished and as if he needed a good feed. I have deliberately backed off giving him balancers/youngstock etc etc feeds as ANY overfeeding would have gone straight to his joints and buggered him up.
We now have a nice looking, although bloody large, youngster who finally looks in proportion. I THINK he has done most of his growing early on, otherwise will keep him and go for the Guiness book of records for the tallest horse.
 
Alexart said:
Please tell my stallions that they should be slim!!!:D Mine have always kept weight on really well - too well sometimes and need dieting, regardless of breed, but the native/chunkier types still put flab on just looking at the grass the same as any mare or gelding!!
The only time they may need the extra energy is if they are actually being used to cover a good few mares/collecting semen everyday or competing at the same time, or if kept out even in a bachelor herd, some do run fences and obviously don't then eat as much, but that is in the breeding season and usually when they hit 3 or more when they realise what nuts are for!!:D The Dengie thing you quoted is for stallions ie. over 4yrs old, and even a stallion just used for covering will only need extra vitamins/supplements and good grazing just to make sure his swimmers are strong!!

I have never had any difference weight wise between colts and geldings while they are growing. So regardless of wether you intend to keep his noodles on - he really only needs vitamins and fibre, any more and you risk putting on too much weight when he has the biggest growth spurt upwards - which is between weaning and yearling, so I'd rather have a slightly too lean youngster than an over fat one, weight is far easier to put on than take off!!!:D And also keep on top of regular worming.
I'd also chuck him out with your geldings over winter to grow and play, it's far healthier than being stabled on his own - obviously he will need access to shelter and have the add lib haylage and vitamin lick, but being out is far better for their development mentally and physically, now in particular when the weather is lovely and dry it's ideal for them!! You can still get them in every few days just for a 10min handling session to keep their manners in check, but other than that they really are better out being allowed to be horses.
All my boys have run in a bachelor herd their ages range from 10 months upwards, (I put newly weaned 6 month old foals in together and then buddy them up to an older youngster so they have some status when they meet their new herd and are that bit bigger at 10 months to play with the adults), I have both colts,geldings and stallions together and they are very chilled out and happy normal horses, you would never know some still have nuts and are breeding stallions, so it can be done and more people are doing it thank goodness - so well done for not wanting to stable your colt 24/7!!:D

I'd also be rather concerned - you say that welsh studs are wanting to show and produce him next year as a yearling - great - but you also said they want him to stand at stud as soon as possible!!:O If they are wanting to cover next year run screaming for the hills!!!:O Those are the sorts of people who shouldn't be breeding, or if they are are only after money!!!

He shouldn't be used to breed from until he is 3yrs at the very earliest, personally I leave till 4yrs old, colts semen isn't as good quality as they aren't fully mature, they are not always aware of social manners around mares when still a baby and are more likely to get kicked, which can be disastrous in a still growing joint, plus they can strain their hock joints, and as they are still gawky growing things you can't always tell wether they really are good enough to be used to breed from.
Ideally you cover a maximum of 4 mares at 3yrs old if at all, then up to 10 at 4yrs old, you can also get a better idea of his sperm count - I would always get a count done on any potential breeding stallion to make sure he does have viable tadpoles - could be very embarrassing if he doesn't and you've got mares visiting!!:D He will also have had more shows under his belt so will hopefully get better mares interested.
Do post some piccies of your little guy, we're all dying to see what he looks like!:D
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thankyou, some wise words.

due to his leg complications (being cast in teh field up the side of a fance and got his leg stuck - all night!, and pulled alot of the skin off his stifle - healing great thou....and no signs of scarring phew) he will have to be around the yard so we can keep him clean etc, but he is out during the day .

I will only breed from him IF he is successful and i feel that he will pass on some good genes, and not untill he is 4/5 and been showing etc, i only want a managble stallion otherwise its nuts goodbye! lol

i think i will ween him down to a handful of vitmin and mix,...... (he is still at bit on the lean side after his ordeal and its nice to rewad him after his daily leg cleaning which he HATES) whilst hes in at night and as soon as it comes nice out he goes for a few months, our big turnout field where the babies normally goes gets very very boggy this time of year but starts to clean up abit normally from feb,

im not sure how to post pics?!
 
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