Feeding Top Spec Comprehensive and Outshine??

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Tinkle

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Hello all,

Just wondered if there was a problem with feeding Baileys Outshine alongside Top Spec Comprehensive? My chap has had a virus and due to his immune system being down he's lost his coat and his skin has gone very scurfy. The vet has recommended getting him onto a good oil product - I considered Alfa A Oil but I don't really want him to put on any weight as he's in nice condition on only HiFi, Top Spec and small amount of Speedibeet. The vet said it would be better to use a product like Outshine that has the antioxidants in etc rather than just giving him a glug of oil in his feed. I will only be feeding a small quantity - Baileys recommend 250g a day for coat shine.

Is this going to be a problem? Does anyone already feed this combination?

x
 
Outshine is a very concentrated form of calories, containing 24 MJDE/kg, so 250g would provide 6 MJDE, which is similar calorie value to a heaped Stubbs scoop (approx 500g) of Alfa A Oil (Alfa A Oil is 12.5 MJDE/kg, so 500g would supply 6.25 MJDE), so feeding the Outshine won't necessarily put on less weight than the Alfa A Oil.
 
Hmmm. What would you recommend to get some oil into his skin? I know all oil is calories etc.

Would he get more oil from the Outshine compared to Alfa A Oil? I.e. from 250g of Outshine to 500g of Alfa A Oil.

Sorry I'm sure I could look this up but you always seem to know what you'e talking about.

x
 
Outshine is 26% oil and Alfa A is 12 % oil, so feeding 250g Outshine will give you a tiny bit more oil than 500g of Alfa A Oil.

However, personally I would just add a little oil to his feed - most experts say that extra antioxidants are only needed when oil is fed at a high rate - ie in order to gain weight or counter conditions like EPSM.

I give 100ml of veg oil a day when I need coat shine - dressage photo in middle of my sig shows the shine it gave to my daughter's pony at that rate of feeding.

However, if you really don't want to feed straight oil, then Alfa A Oil would be a cheaper form of supplying oil than Outshine.
 
Just don't know what to do. I've got the vet recommending something with the antioxidants and then perhaps 100ml of veggi oil would be enough. His skin is very dry though - it's like extreme scurf and rainscald allover. See below! He's actually balder then this now.

DSCN0340.jpg


Thanks,

x
 
Blimey
shocked.gif
- that is quite extreme - more than just a case of scurfy skin - I think I would stick with whatever the vet suggests to be on the safe side! I'd also email Topspec/Bailey's with that photo and ask for their recommendations as to feeding the two products together.
 
Vicky at Dengie advised me that when adding oil to the diet 100IU vitamin E is recommended per 100mls oil to mop up any free radicals produced.

Poor naked boy-hes a handsome chappy though!
 
Definately take your vets advice, but dont go feeding loads of supplements with a sensitive horse like this, even supermarket veg/corn oil may set off a reaction. Pure Linseed oil, fed at aound 3tbsps a day will be by far the best , cheapest and safest way of coat conditioning for him.
 
Equi jewel from saracen is another one to consider . Our yard found it gave better results than outshine and is a little bit cheaper but we are mainly native or native crosses which may affect the success of it.
 
i feed outshine and topspec at full rations to my skinny welshie with no problems. outshine has a higher DE/kg than Equijewel so i swapped to the outshine plus outshine is lower in starch.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Our yard found it gave better results than outshine and is a little bit cheaper but we are mainly native or native crosses which may affect the success of it.

[/ QUOTE ] When you take into account the higher oil and digestible energy content of Outshine it actually works out more cost effective than Equijewel.
 
In my feed shop the outshine is £39 a bag and lasts four ponies about 3/12 weeks and the equjewel is £32 a bag and lasts about the same amount of time - that to me is cheaper . Like I said previously the equijewel gave us better results and calmer ponies than the outshine which sent a couple of ponies slightly wayward shall we say!! We were feeding primarily for coat condition rather than weight gain as such which maybe why the equijewel was better for us.
 
But you can't just work out cost-effectiveness on price per bag! Equijewel contains 17.5% oil and 15 MJDE/kg (calories) whereas Outshine contains 26% oil and 24 MJDE/kg (calories) - so Outshine contains significantly more oil and calories per bag. To gain the same amount of oil (or calories) in the diet, you could feed significantly less Outshine than Equijewel because it is more concentrated.

But if you find that Equijewel suits your ponies best that is fine, but don't kid yourself that it is actually a cheaper supply of oil than Outshine!
 
I feed a balancer and Outshine to one of mine (I consulted nutritionists first). Looking at that picture I would go with what your vet recommends and also speak to nutritionists at both the companies whose products you will be feeding.
BTW some horses don't like Alpha-A Oil so I would get a sample first if you intend to feed it instead of Outshine.
 
I am not kidding myself over these two feeds at all. When ringing both companies feedlines we were recommended to feed 500g to the smaller ponies by both companies(ponies rnge between 11hh and 13hh and work for two to three hours a day doing pretty much anything we throw at them ,it was fed with a alfa a chaff and they are on 24/7 grazing ) and increase if we felt it needed to be /or we were not getting the results we wanted. So on a feed to feed basis the ej was better for us even though the outshine has increased levels of oil and dj. Th ej suits our needs more and there is nothing less cost effective or gutting than throwing a £40 bag of food away when it has over cooked some normally calm ponies. If you want the maximum amount of oil in a small amount of food then outshine the winner by a mile but I have only found it not to affect a horse unless it is in regular ,medium level work and judging by some other articles/forum posts etc etc people seem to have more issues with the outshine than the equijewel.
 
I think you misunderstood my post, if you read it again you will see that I actually AGREE that if it suits your ponies best then Equijewel is the right choice for you, but when it comes down to value for money in terms of amount of oil and calories supplied, then Outshine comes out better (obviously as long as it suits the horse concerned in other ways).

I just wanted to make it clear so other people reading would have the full facts about the differences between the two feeds, because so many people just compare bag prices when assessing feeds.
 
I know your vet has advised to feed an oil based product, but I would consider feeding a seaweed and rosehip supplement, as seaweed is a great natural vit and min supplement which works wonders on the skin and hair too, this with rosehips which are a very good vit c antioxidant is really great for the immune system too.

A company called Equus Health do one called seaweed and rosehip, they have a website with all there products and a helpline number to speak to them directly. They may also recommend Aloevera Juice as this is great too for the immune system and skin issues. Their contact number is 01208 821758 speak to Wizzy or Derek they are both very helpful.

I am not saying your vet in any way is wrong, but there are other options than feeding oil to get the skin and hair condition to be great again without putting on weight or having excess calories to burn as energy!
 
TopSpec and Outshine works really well for my boy (I also feed speedibeet and a little Happy Hoof to bind it together!) The combination has put a lot of weight on him (when other conditioning feeds didnt) but I do feed the 'conditioning' rate. Outshine is expensive but I think worth it when it has the antioxidants to help with the high oil content plus added benefit of linseed.

Have to say that I am feeling the credit crunch a little and now the grass is coming through I am planning to stop TopSpec Balancer and feed Equine Answers 360 Balancer supplement instead.
 
If I was you I would contact a chap called Roger Hatch of "Trinity Consultants" Give him all the details and he will advice you on the kind of thing you need to feed to your boy.

This sounds to be more than just adding oil to the feed and he needs to have a detox (A liver tonic)

Get everything balanced before messing with feeds.
 
My horse's legs did this last winter. Large patches of hair fell out leaving very bald leggies! She looked ridiculous! Also I have known of other horses who over enthusiastically cast their winter coat in patches before the summer coat has grown in but never this extensive. Only other story of the like I have come accros is this one

http://www.equilife.co.uk/casestudiesf4f2.htm

Hope he's got lots of jammy's on to protect his baldness! A perfect excuse to go rug shopping i think!
 
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