Feeding young foal

[AppyLover1996]

Hiya,

I've found a lot of helpful responses here, so thought I'd ask again

I am currently in the process of getting my very first foal (he's currently 8 months old and still at the stud).

He has been happily weaned from Mum for a good while, turns out with the rest of the foals, eating hard feed and plenty of ad lib forage.

His current diet is Fast Fibre and Bailey's Outshine ( fed at 200g dry weight each BEFORE it gets soaked twice daily). He has this along with plenty of turnout.

I am wondering if it would be beneficial to add in some alfalfa chaff when he comes to me (I'm thinking Dengie Alfa A with Oil) and a Stud Balancer (I'm thinking Bailey's Stud Balancer), alongside what he is currently getting, or would it be worth me substituting some things for others - I.E reducing the amount of Bailey's Outshine as he will be getting the Stud Balancer and I don't want to cause an imbalance of any nutrients?

What he is currently on is doing wonders for him and he's growing at a steady rate (a bit bum high but he is going to be a big lad!), so my question is more so as he grows into a yearling and so on.

Am I overthinking things and he is fine on what he is being fed, or is it worth adding in the chaff and balancer when he comes to me?

 

[ihatework]

I adopt a keep it simple approach.
Good forage (grass/hay/haylage) and just stud balancer. I use baileys but that’s for sports horses. Anything that was more cobby/native or growing too quickly would be suregrow.

 

[AppyLover1996]

I adopt a keep it simple approach.
Good forage (grass/hay/haylage) and just stud balancer. I use baileys but that’s for sports horses. Anything that was more cobby/native or growing too quickly would be suregrow.

Thank you for your response - I'm a bit of a worrier and I have always fed some sort of chaff and balancer to everything I've ridden or owned (obviously fed the chaff most suitable for the equine and fed the balancer most suited after blood tests were done), hence why I was wondering if it was worth adding the alfalfa in, but I'm guessing it could potentially cause issues, especially as what he is currently on is doing him just fine? I'm getting regular updates and he is a nice stocky lad, not growing mega fast and is only a little bum high so I'm guessing I should go with the approach of "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" aha

By the way - LOVE your banner about Parelli - provided a good laugh on a cold morning!!!

 

[PurBee]

I’d avoid alfalfa for any foal because its really high in calcium and low in phosphorus, so it could cause a skeletal growth spurt, but not strong bones, due to the lack of phosphorus. To balance the phosphorus to alfalfa would mean feeding a hefty dose of grain, and you’d have a zoomie-mad fast growing foal on your hands!

As ihatework said, the slow and even approach is better with mixed hays/grasses/balancer than feeding super dense calorie and nutrient foods like alfalfa/grains.
My foal grew beautifully and slowly on just basic forage and a mineral balancer. The skeleton takes years to fully develop and it doesn’t want to be rushed with dense feeds.

 

[AppyLover1996]

I’d avoid alfalfa for any foal because its really high in calcium and low in phosphorus, so it could cause a skeletal growth spurt, but not strong bones, due to the lack of phosphorus. To balance the phosphorus to alfalfa would mean feeding a hefty dose of grain, and you’d have a zoomie-mad fast growing foal on your hands!

As ihatework said, the slow and even approach is better with mixed hays/grasses/balancer than feeding super dense calorie and nutrient foods like alfalfa/grains.
My foal grew beautifully and slowly on just basic forage and a mineral balancer. The skeleton takes years to fully develop and it doesn’t want to be rushed with dense feeds.

Thank you PurBee, I think I'm overcomplicating things as I'm used to complicated equines and my foal will be the first straight-forward equine to feed and look after...

So with regards to his current diet of Fast Fibre and Bailey's Outshine - would you say it's worth simply adding the stud balancer and leaving it at that?

 

[PurBee]

Thank you PurBee, I think I'm overcomplicating things as I'm used to complicated equines and my foal will be the first straight-forward equine to feed and look after...

So with regards to his current diet of Fast Fibre and Bailey's Outshine - would you say it's worth simply adding the stud balancer and leaving it at that?

Ive just had a look at the ingredients for fast fibre and outshine - and the only really useful parts of those feeds, for a foal, are the minimal nutrients theyre supplying, and prebiotics, which you would get from a good quality stud balancer - allowing you to ditch the fast fibre and outshine.

I have no idea why theyre adding fenugreek to horse feed when that’s an endocrine supportive herb usually used for females! I wouldnt want to give it to a colt foal. Also ‘essential oil flavours’ are dubious for any horse. The soya hulls, soya oil and straw are problematic for various reasons, but primarily i would want more omega 3 oil from linseed, than omega 6 oil from soy. Omega 6 is pro-inflammatory, and omega 3 is anti-inflammatory.
If you ditched these bag feeds you could give the stud balancer with micronised linseed, if the stud balancer doesnt have linseed in it (for omega 3 in winter, grass has omega 3 so linseed isnt so essential in summer)
If the foal is getting plenty of grass and hay fibre, and a good balancer, he doesnt need the extra fibre from these type of chaff feeds, with their dubious herbs/oil ratio additions.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

The only chaff I feed my horses is just pure grass chaff they won't eat the straw chaff and the Alfalfa ones sends them nuts.

I would rather feed unmolassed sugar beet than fast fibre as its not got all the other added soya stuff in it, then you can buy micronised linseed if you think he needs it, works out much cheaper and you can adjust it to your liking.

 

[AppyLover1996]

The only chaff I feed my horses is just pure grass chaff they won't eat the straw chaff and the Alfalfa ones sends them nuts.

I would rather feed unmolassed sugar beet than fast fibre as its not got all the other added soya stuff in it, then you can buy micronised linseed if you think he needs it, works out much cheaper and you can adjust it to your liking.

Hi Pinkvboots,

Thanks for your reply - so instead of Fast Fibre switch to unmolassed sugar beet/Speedibeet as that is exactly the same but not as much "bad" ingredients in it per say?

With regards to swapping over - I'm assuming a foal's tummy is A LOT more sensitive than an adult's tummy so the swap over should be done extremely slowly - I was thinking of buying a bag of each (Fast Fibre/Speedibeet and Bailey's Outshine) and then slowly swapping over the amounts (so less Fast Fibre and more Speedibeet) over the course of a month (or however long the bag lasts!) and eventually end up on just Speedibeet and the Bailey's Outshine. Then maybe buy some micronised linseed if my foal needs it and follow the same procedure with slowly swapping the amounts of linseed and Bailey's Outshine over.

May I ask what your opinion is on stud balancers? I was debating about adding one so I would be feeding Speedibeet, Stud Balancer and Linseed (only if linseed is needed though) - however I've read mixed reviews about stud balancers being fed at way too high a level and causing issues?

I want my foal to grow up strong and healthy, but at the same time don't want to fall into any rookie mistakes and cause problems. My current lad is a complex case (prone to ulcers, can hot up, stressy, can also drop weight, PSSM and Lord knows what else I'm yet to uncover!) so I'm used to quite complex feed routines, so having an equine that isn't complex is a whole new ball game!

 

[PurBee]

Baileys do a ‘no 3 stud and youngstock cube’ feed - looking at the ingredients they have mixed calcium feeds with phosphorus feeds, obviously to create a good calcium/phosphorus ratio to help skeletal development, and added prebiotic, vitamins and minerals (sadly, they dont say what these vits are in detail though).
Its 15% protein, high starch 27%:

No.3 Stud & Youngstock Cubes

www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk

Their ‘stud balancer’ is a higher protein 32% feed designed for growing horses. 6% starch. Cal/phos balanced. Added mins/vits (not detailed) Also contains linseed and prebiotics which is a plus (saves having to add extra linseed):

Stud Balancer

www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk

I’d likely prefer the balancer, if wanting to feed anything aside from basic forage. The youngstock cube they say is starch dense as its more designed for breeders to feed a small amount on the ground to a group.


If you were to add to the above feed, any feed high in calcium, which alfalfa and beetpulp is - youre then burdened with adding some more phosphorus from another feed source, to keep calcium/phosphorus balanced.

Don’t forget, hay/haylage tends to be on average higher in calcium than phosphorus, so their forage is already a richer source of calcium. Also grass is more calcium rich than phosphorus. So if you fed alfalfa or beetpulp ontop you’d be on a calcium heavy diet.

Beetpulp can be used in minimal quantities like a couple of soaked handfuls to mix powdered vits/mins into, and that small quantity would be negligible to their cal/phos dietary ration - but if using beet/alfalfa as a significant portion in their diet, you’d want an additional phosphorus source to balance that with.

The stud ranges from all feed merchants tend to balance phos/calcium within the 1 feed, so if we add another feed to it, we burden ourseves to balance that additional feed, and it gets complicated, and is likely un-necessesary.

You’re right that any changeover of feed wants to be done gradually and slowly. Your foal is a lucky boy to have such a thoughtful owner I had to think hard what mine grew up on as he seemed so easy, and almost grew perfectly on not much of a fussy diet at all! I added a generic balancer pellet, high protein with vits/mins to a handful of soaked speedibeet, alongside him having grass/hay/saltlick/water. He really didnt get much of bagged feeds, just the balancer pellet, focusing more on a good quality mixed forage supply, clean hay, and multi-species grazing, with bushes/trees/barks to nibble on too (safe ones!)
If they seem leggy and skinny in winter, more hay or a stud cube can be added for additional support. Assess as they grow. If you‘re used to a complex horse diet, i can understand why youre leaning on a complex foal diet, but theyre far simpler to feed than fully grown horses with ‘issues’. Good luck with him

 

[AppyLover1996]

Baileys do a ‘no 3 stud and youngstock cube’ feed - looking at the ingredients they have mixed calcium feeds with phosphorus feeds, obviously to create a good calcium/phosphorus ratio to help skeletal development, and added prebiotic, vitamins and minerals (sadly, they dont say what these vits are in detail though).
Its 15% protein, high starch 27%:

No.3 Stud & Youngstock Cubes

www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk

Their ‘stud balancer’ is a higher protein 32% feed designed for growing horses. 6% starch. Cal/phos balanced. Added mins/vits (not detailed) Also contains linseed and prebiotics which is a plus (saves having to add extra linseed):

Stud Balancer

www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk

I’d likely prefer the balancer, if wanting to feed anything aside from basic forage. The youngstock cube they say is starch dense as its more designed for breeders to feed a small amount on the ground to a group.


If you were to add to the above feed, any feed high in calcium, which alfalfa and beetpulp is - youre then burdened with adding some more phosphorus from another feed source, to keep calcium/phosphorus balanced.

Don’t forget, hay/haylage tends to be on average higher in calcium than phosphorus, so their forage is already a richer source of calcium. Also grass is more calcium rich than phosphorus. So if you fed alfalfa or beetpulp ontop you’d be on a calcium heavy diet.

Beetpulp can be used in minimal quantities like a couple of soaked handfuls to mix powdered vits/mins into, and that small quantity would be negligible to their cal/phos dietary ration - but if using beet/alfalfa as a significant portion in their diet, you’d want an additional phosphorus source to balance that with.

The stud ranges from all feed merchants tend to balance phos/calcium within the 1 feed, so if we add another feed to it, we burden ourseves to balance that additional feed, and it gets complicated, and is likely un-necessesary.

You’re right that any changeover of feed wants to be done gradually and slowly. Your foal is a lucky boy to have such a thoughtful owner I had to think hard what mine grew up on as he seemed so easy, and almost grew perfectly on not much of a fussy diet at all! I added a generic balancer pellet, high protein with vits/mins to a handful of soaked speedibeet, alongside him having grass/hay/saltlick/water. He really didnt get much of bagged feeds, just the balancer pellet, focusing more on a good quality mixed forage supply, clean hay, and multi-species grazing, with bushes/trees/barks to nibble on too (safe ones!)
If they seem leggy and skinny in winter, more hay or a stud cube can be added for additional support. Assess as they grow. If you‘re used to a complex horse diet, i can understand why youre leaning on a complex foal diet, but theyre far simpler to feed than fully grown horses with ‘issues’. Good luck with him

Thank you so much PurBee - I adored reading your response - so helpful and informative!

So with regards to the stud balancer - I could easily drop the Outshine and Fast Fibre he is currently on and simply feed the stud balancer with maybe a small handful of Speedibeet to slow him down to prevent choke etc? He'll have ad lib haylage like my current pony, as I believe they need as much forage as they can munch (without causing weight problems of course!). Although if haylage is likely to cause an issue, I can always get hay for him instead? I wouldn't be using the Speedibeet as a significant portion in his diet - more to simply make sure he's getting enough fibre and to have a base to soak the stud balancer with.

Aww thank you - my foal is my absolute world, I've been to the stud to see him once and burst into tears when I saw him - he's simply perfect in every way and I'm so thankful to be in the position to buy him and keep him forever I always make sure my horses have the best of everything so he will have exactly what he needs when he needs it, and I'll be keeping a diary to watch for growth rates etc. Ah - in which case it truly is that a simple, high fibre diet and a stud balancer will work wonders - I think my poor Mum who helps out will breathe a sigh of relief at the simplicity of my foal's feed! Oh yes - complex horse diet is certainly the right phrase when it comes to my current lad, he's given me years of unconditional love and memories though, so I owe it to him to do the best by him, and the same for my foal

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Fast fibre is unmolassed sugar beet with linseed so it won't be a huge change so I wouldn't worry too much just gradually introduce until you run out of fast fibre.

I don't know much about stud balancers but I hear people recommend sure grow quite alot on here

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

We need pictures of foal please

 

[AppyLover1996]

We need pictures of foal please

As soon as I figure out how, I'll happily spam you guys with piccies He's a full 5 generation Appaloosa, he is confirmed bay (EE Aa) colt, homozygous for the Leopard Print gene (LP/LP) with one copy of the pattern gene (PATN1/patn1) who has inherited his sire’s Cream Gene (CR/cr) making him a Buckskin. I have a soft spot for Appaloosa's and find them so loyal and intelligent <3

 

[PurBee]

Thank you so much PurBee - I adored reading your response - so helpful and informative!

So with regards to the stud balancer - I could easily drop the Outshine and Fast Fibre he is currently on and simply feed the stud balancer with maybe a small handful of Speedibeet to slow him down to prevent choke etc? He'll have ad lib haylage like my current pony, as I believe they need as much forage as they can munch (without causing weight problems of course!). Although if haylage is likely to cause an issue, I can always get hay for him instead? I wouldn't be using the Speedibeet as a significant portion in his diet - more to simply make sure he's getting enough fibre and to have a base to soak the stud balancer with.

Aww thank you - my foal is my absolute world, I've been to the stud to see him once and burst into tears when I saw him - he's simply perfect in every way and I'm so thankful to be in the position to buy him and keep him forever I always make sure my horses have the best of everything so he will have exactly what he needs when he needs it, and I'll be keeping a diary to watch for growth rates etc. Ah - in which case it truly is that a simple, high fibre diet and a stud balancer will work wonders - I think my poor Mum who helps out will breathe a sigh of relief at the simplicity of my foal's feed! Oh yes - complex horse diet is certainly the right phrase when it comes to my current lad, he's given me years of unconditional love and memories though, so I owe it to him to do the best by him, and the same for my foal

Yes, if you slowly drop the fast fibre and outshine for the balancer, adding a wee bit of soaked beet to get him munching slowly, that will work. Mine would gobble dry pellets quite quickly, and a couple of handfuls soggy beet mixed in makes them chew.

Haylage is made in all sorts of ways - if yours is made well, fermented fully, smells ’nice’, no visible mould growth, it can be fine for any horse. If he’s on grass too, he’ll be getting a mix of forages alongside haylage.
Some haylage is very moist and over-fermented, smelling very vinegary and pungent, which can cause them gut upset if ive ever been unfortunate to receive such haylage. Some haylage is too dry, like wrapped moist hay, hasnt fermented and is basically ‘sweated hay in a bag’ - that i truly avoid as mould growth is much more likely, and it is easily identified as it has a weird old damp sock smell which is vile.
Gut troubles and mould go hand in hand. I use my nose with hay and haylage - if it smells neutral or grassy, or sweetish its generally good - if my nose immediately senses mustiness or an ‘ew’ reaction, there‘s usually unseen moulds/bacteria, and i dont feed it.
Your haylage is likely a good one as you already have a pony on it.

After trying out many uk and irish haylage suppliers, i have always had a much better quality haylage from ‘named’ suppliers than from a farmer having a go at making haylage. Certain grasses ferment better than others - something haylage makers with experience know about - farmers think you can wrap any grassland wet hay and call it haylage, and they usually have unpredictable results.

Your foal sounds adorable and pics of him would be such a treat!

 

[AppyLover1996]

Yes, if you slowly drop the fast fibre and outshine for the balancer, adding a wee bit of soaked beet to get him munching slowly, that will work. Mine would gobble dry pellets quite quickly, and a couple of handfuls soggy beet mixed in makes them chew.

Haylage is made in all sorts of ways - if yours is made well, fermented fully, smells ’nice’, no visible mould growth, it can be fine for any horse. If he’s on grass too, he’ll be getting a mix of forages alongside haylage.
Some haylage is very moist and over-fermented, smelling very vinegary and pungent, which can cause them gut upset if ive ever been unfortunate to receive such haylage. Some haylage is too dry, like wrapped moist hay, hasnt fermented and is basically ‘sweated hay in a bag’ - that i truly avoid as mould growth is much more likely, and it is easily identified as it has a weird old damp sock smell which is vile.
Gut troubles and mould go hand in hand. I use my nose with hay and haylage - if it smells neutral or grassy, or sweetish its generally good - if my nose immediately senses mustiness or an ‘ew’ reaction, there‘s usually unseen moulds/bacteria, and i dont feed it.
Your haylage is likely a good one as you already have a pony on it.

After trying out many uk and irish haylage suppliers, i have always had a much better quality haylage from ‘named’ suppliers than from a farmer having a go at making haylage. Certain grasses ferment better than others - something haylage makers with experience know about - farmers think you can wrap any grassland wet hay and call it haylage, and they usually have unpredictable results.

Your foal sounds adorable and pics of him would be such a treat!

Thank you for your help (and thank you to everyone else too!).

Ah that is fab to know - yep my haylage is apparently so delicious that when the pony made a break for it last night out his stable as I thought I'd locked his door (but obviously hadn't!) , his snozzle smelt the haylage bale and he promptly stopped in his tracks and started stuffing his face with haylage straight from the bale! I didn't have his headcollar to hand so had to leave a haylage trail like Hansel and Gretel to get him back into the stable

I'm not having much luck with the picture inserting - anyone got any tips??

 

[Patterdale]

He sounds lovely!
Appaloosas are typically good doers.
I buy a few native foals, I don’t feed them anything except top top quality haylage and 24/7 grass. They have a top quality vitamin field lick.
They generally look scraggy (never underweight, just not show condition ie fat) for a couple of years and then fill out nicely.
I’d be very wary of feeding anything but a simple balancer. If their body learns to be fat as babies, they’ll struggle with weight all their lives.

 

[PurBee]

Thank you for your help (and thank you to everyone else too!).

Ah that is fab to know - yep my haylage is apparently so delicious that when the pony made a break for it last night out his stable as I thought I'd locked his door (but obviously hadn't!) , his snozzle smelt the haylage bale and he promptly stopped in his tracks and started stuffing his face with haylage straight from the bale! I didn't have his headcollar to hand so had to leave a haylage trail like Hansel and Gretel to get him back into the stable

I'm not having much luck with the picture inserting - anyone got any tips??

Your haylage is obviously very tempting!

There is a size limit for pictures to upload here - not sure what that is tho’ - i generally resize all pics for upload here to 1mb or lower, that usually works.

 

[Mfh999]

I really can't think why a stud would use Outshine for a foal rather than a proper stud feed or balancer; strange.
I've used most stud feeds over the years and personally prefer D & H or Baileys over others; they've always done well on them but I also have a lot of time for Suregrow (D & H) It's a pelleted balancer and is meant to provide all the vit's and min's a growing skeleton needs; you only feed a little so a bag lasts a longer time. It can be used as a basic balancer for older horses too. It's also far cheaper than most stud balancers which is also a bonus.
Both D & H and Baileys have very good help lines. Yes, they'll probably push their own goods but I found them excellent help when I was rearing two orphan colts from a fortnight old.
Word of warning; Baileys Stud Nuts are a great feed, I've used them lots but they're also great for weight gain if you have anything poor as well.