Feeds for a underweight tb who gets very fizzy

annar

annar

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i have a 8 yr old tb ex race horse who needs to build topline as hes been diagnosed with kissing spine. i changed him onto topspec cool condition and comprehensive balancer and for about a week hes been on top levels of this feed. hes worked almost every day on the pessoa but hes going crackers. hes getting himself completely sweated up waiting to go out in a morning (always been impatient but never sweaty) hes a nutter on the lunge not wanting to stop and a little bit bullish in the field which has never been before. i figured it was the feed so am looking to change. he needs something to help keep his weight and addd a little but needs to stay sane as at moment hes just worrying and sweating any extra weight off that he would get from feed.
Originally i had him on fibrebeet (hes till has some of this) baileys lo cal balancer and spillers conditioning fibre which he was much calmer on but didnt gain enough weight. annax
 
How long have you had him and how long has he been out of racing? How much turnout is he getting?

Topspec cool condition cubes and balancer both have very low levels of sugar and starch, and both are cereal free, so there is no reason why either feed should make him loopy. I feed both of these to my TB who goes loopy on cereal feeds and is an anxious horse.

Could the going crackers be pain related? If he hasn't worked in a consistant, correct outline before then the pessoa will be very hard work for him, and the fact he has a kissing spine could be exacerbating this.

It sounds like he's worried or stressed about something if he's sweating in his stable (or he's got too many rugs on :D ) Has his routine changed? Are other horses being turned out before him that he can see? Or you're turning him out later than you used to?

Maybe you could try a calmer if you think it is the feed?
 
I have mine on endurance mix as it is quite highon the energy front but all slow release so he doesn't get that quick burst of energy but everything is more sustained. He also get alfa a and barley through the show season. He worked hard 5/6 days a week as well.
 
How much hay is he getting? I always make sure mine has more than he could possibly eat and I only feed him a fibre diet, graze-on and pony nuts with added sunflower oil for calories.

My horse didn't do well with speedibeet, I b*ggered about with feeds and calmers for a year, never thinking it could be the speedibeet, ran out one day and so didn't fit to him... went back to his old self :D he's not been fed it since.
 
At the moment turnout is limited to daytime only to save fields. we have very good fields with plenty of grass and hes out with 5 others from 8 till about 5ish later if they decide they wont come to gate lol as fields huge. generally no later than 6 but he will be out 24/7 as soon as owner allows. he has ad lib haylage which hes always had and never had a problem with, its the very dry sort which isnt much diff to hay. ive tried reducing to a thinner rug and no diff so def excitability, he starts as soon as he sees others arrive to turnout, but this routine has always been same he just seems to have started the sweating the last week.

i do wonder re the pain and am seeing vet monday with him and going to ask re surgery as at the moment hes very diff to get any outline from whereas 2 weeks ago he worked much better.

he has changed fields but he went with his field buddies into it and only a couple of new horses but they arevery settled together although i know this could be causing stress too. he just seems so wired and highly strung bless him and the top spec isnt working hes lost weight on full amount. i have even added a calmer to see if any help and thats not showing any effect yet but only been loading for 5 days.

he never used to be that worried about stable movement if frank my other horse and his field buddy was still in but he stresses regardless now.

ive had him nearly 4 months, sadly he was diagnosed with kissing spine in dec and has had steroid inj which dont seem to have worked. annax
 
You could trying keeping him on the TS Cool Condition Cubes but switching the balancer back to Baileys Lo Cal. Whilst TS balancers are low in starch, I do know a couple of horses who just can't tolerate it all and go a bit loopy on it. If you are worried that the Lo Cal will be lower calorie than the TS balancer then you could top up with some sort of oil source - micronised linseed, Outshine, Equijewel etc.
 
Hi,

I fed my late mare Ultimate Balancer, a high spec balancer by D and H and she went nuts on it, it was just too much for her even though balancers aren't meant to be heating.

Take him off the feed and see if it makes a difference? A couple of days without hard feed wont kill him as long as he has lots and lots of hay ect. If after 2/3 days he starts to chill out theres your answer :)

My horse can't really cope with anything too 'high energy/calorie' even if its slow release energy as too much protein seems to make his poo's runny and he gets upset :(. I was giving him lots of Alfa A oil (4/5 scoops a day, the reccommended amount for weight gain) and speedie beet (2 massive scoops a day) as this is meant to be a great diet for putting on weight while keeping them calm and while he's never going to be a monster as he is a chilled out chappie he was definitly getting upset on it, he was cribbing, spooky, swishing his tail and being fresher then normal and he kept getting a really runny bum.

I cut the speedie beet right out and halved the Alfa Oil and gave him low cal balancer as its a bit 'less' then other balancers but still has all the good stuff.

He is back to being utterly gorgeous now! No runny poo's and a much happier and calm boy :). He's on 1 level stubbs scopp of Alfa Oil and 1 1/2 mugs of low cal twice a day with a squirt of sunflower oil and a couple handfuls of meadow nuts in his ball and he is fine and he has not dropped off at all, if anything he has put on weight. He is on ad lib haylage but its dry haylage so not very rich.

Are you having to feed scoops and scoops of the top spec cubes? It looks like a great feeding plan but I got the impression that you literally have to feed like 2 massive scoops morning and night with the balancer? It was far too expensive for me to consider and seem ever such a lot.. Maybe he is having trouble processing it all, maybe its a bit rich and is going to his head?

If he calms down after taking away his hard feed I would just try indroducing something simple and lower energy and give him smaller meals and add a good supplement (but not so high spec) like the baileys low cal or pink powder and maybe give him haylage instead of hay?!

Honestly my TB is prone to loosing weight in the blink of an eye but small, simple meals keep him relaxed and his tummy happy and with literally tons of haylage seems to work the best and he is blooming :), theres not much point giving high calorie food if they then stress it off because they have too much energy..

Or you could carry on what your feeding him but cut down the amount of cubes and/or split them into smaller feeds?

Have a play around but I would definitly reccommend taking him off hard feed for 3 days or so as you should know by then if it is definitly the food or not :)

Sorry I've waffled!!
 
A couple of recommendations and thoughts but keep in mind what works for one doesn't suit another so it can be a case of trial and error.
My first TB was a nightmare to keep weight on. We tried many things but in the end two were most successful. Firstly he had Dengi Hi Fi and Allen & Paige "weight gain" mix. This worked well. We also added oil and sugar beet in winter. He was fizzy and it never heated him up. Then a friend told us about Copra Meal ( http://www.stanceequine.co.uk/horsefeedproducts.php?Copra-meal-horse-feed-12 ) and we swapped him over. He never looked better than when on this feed. His coat was shining and he was so healthy.
None of our TBs have ever done well on Alfafa - for some reason it seems to send them hyper. I always stick with Copra Meal or Dengi Hi Fi. Similarly our second TB reacted to Sugar Beet and was evil but was fine on Speedi Beet.
Unfortunately it is a case of each to their own and pain could play a large part. I hope you find a combination that works for you and your boy.
 
Ah, I forgot about Copra, FAB stuff and it smells amazing.

Glad I'm not the only one with a tb that reacts to Alfalfa, sent him vicious.
 
Cant give an opinion on feeding as not very knowledgeable on that score but what you were saying about him sweating and stressing in the stable before turnout. We have an Anglo Arab who had settled well after we bought him but then started box walking like a lunatic and was clearly very stressed in his stable. This started a few days after a field change and the entrance to the field was opposite his stable. When the fields changed again he settled again but the boxwalking etc started again when they were back in the field opposite his stable. He had been absolutely fine with this set up all through the summer so we couldnt work out why his behavoiur should suddenly change. Spoke to a vet who thought it was probably related to the field and that it could have been a positive or negative experience that had changed his behavoiur.The boxwalking etc was most often seen when the others were turned out before him. We were able to change to another stable out of sight of the fields and the box walking disappeared overnight. Even when he was stuck in his stable during the recent snow he was calm and settled.
 
thanks everyone. Chinas stable is the end one away from a door so he cant see whats happening but its a small yard and you can hear hooves etc when anyone is moving and people talking to horses which he now recognises voices and i think he knows when someone in his field is going out, hes def smart.
i removed the cool condition cubes and just left the balancer in with the fibrebeet and a little conditioning fibre that he had before and in the space of 36 hrs hes much better. if he doesnt come right down ill remove balancer back to lo cal, my other lad was always a poor doer and hes doing fab on fibrebeet, condit fibre and lo cal but it just didnt seem enough for china but maybe now grass is coming through it may be. thanks for advice and ill see if i can get him back chilled and then maybe try again if i need to with somethign else. i know i couldnt give frank alph a oil he went crackers too, annax
 
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