Feel like giving up - bronking

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elbee

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Really feel like giving up with my mare at the moment after my second bad fall in 6 months. Last time I ended up in A&E. Thank god that I was wearing a back protector this time otherwise I dread to think where I'd be.

Although she's an angel 90% of the time she sometimes launches into a huge bronking session for no apparent reason. Yesterday she was tacked up on the yard, dozing, almost asleep, when she stretched out her back leg which seemed to trigger something that sent her bucking and rearing around the yard. It was terrifying to watch but after a few minutes she calmed down and I walked her round for a bit , checked under her saddle (nothing) and she was back to her normal calm self. I am really annoyed with myself for what happened next. Having deciding it must have just been something silly like an insect bite , I mounted her , very quietly and softly and she was fine with that but as I reached forward to pat her neck to say good girl, she started bronking again and I flew off, flat on my back on to the yard.

I'm too old to keep falling off and risk seriously injuring myself and I've now got to the point where I honestly feel I'll never have the nerve to ride her again. I've had her teeth and saddle checked in the past year but not her back. I'm so sore today and feeling like giving up with her.

As I write this I think I know that I should call the vet out to check her back but I honestly feel like whatever the outcome, she's not going to be suitable for me. The sad thing is that she's a lovely sweet girl in all other ways and still young (7) so maybe she just needs a more experienced rider ?
 
We went through this with our anglo, some days she would be fine, other times not fine. We have found she needs regular visits from the chiro/saddle fitter, as i anything isn't 100% she flips a lid. She is better now (13) but it has been a long hard road, with a huge amount of lungeing. In your situation I would have lunged prior to getting on. We find we have to listen to our mare, and if she is a bit dicky tacking up, or when we first get on she gets lunged. I have lost count of the times I have hopped on to hop off again an find the lunge line.
I would get some professional help having had her back and saddle checked again,and also have her looked over by a vet. Good luck, they can be worth it!
 
She is in pain from something you need to find out what and work from there one step at a time. Don't think of the what ifs and buts about the future or it will overwhelm you. Speaking from experience I have a horse that for months I was scared of and wanted rid but now things are sorted out and we are starting to have fun together
 
Ok deep breath and try to deal with this as separate issues.

What triggered her the first time? How is she usually when you are tacking / girthing her up?

Mine just to be an absolute lunatic and I received many responses to a thread much like yours. I was told she had a brain tumour, ulcers, a bad back etc and best I could do was PTS. Very few people told me to persevere.
Mine was always tricky and came to me as she already had a reputation for rearing and striking. The biggest issue was the massive over reactions. Like yours one day she took a step forward and not sure if the girth pinched or something but she exploded like someone had just torched her tail!

So mine had teeth, tack, feet, back checked. Vet checked her all over and told me she was fine but probably needed working and so I should "man up and ride her" (love my vet - very blunt and honest!)

Then I got some professional help as like you my bottle was well on the way out and we've honestly never looked back.

No magic cure. She has to have very specific tack even down to what type of saddle pad and I'm even now 4 yrs down the line aware of the signs that she's looking for trouble.
To deal with my nerves I made a deal with myself that I would ride her everyday for 1 month and if I was still scared of her at the end then I would call it a day. Week one I literally cried with relief everytime I got on and she didn't kill me and every time I got off and was still alive! I swear to you though that by week 3 I was genuinely looking forward to riding her.

She still has days when she makes me take a deep breath but these are so few and far between now.

Not sure if any of this helps you but don't think you're alone with having a stroppy mare ;-). We probably need a self help book on living with them - in fact I could probably write it ;-) x x
 
It sounds to me like a genuine pain issue and I would be getting the vet out for a complete work up.

Hope you feel better soon.
 
Thank you all for your replies, it's nice to know that some of you have worked through similar issues and come out the other side.

Baileybones, you asked what triggered her the first time, well that time I was trying to ask for canter in the school when she exploded. When we're hacking she canters beautifully but I guess I rarely need to 'ask' her in that situation. I'm very wary about using too much leg on her now.

She's ok having her saddle put on and girthing is also ok. She sticks her nose in the air when I try to bridle her but she's fine once it's on. She's not keen on being groomed and sometimes pulls faces when I'm brushing her body.

I really respect those of you who have persevered with similar problems, I'm not sure I'm brave enough nowadays but I will get her checked by a vet as I hate to think she's in pain.
 
I am so with you on this! Perhaps we should hold each others' hand :) Mine is also fine 90% of the time, but if it is a windy day or she hears something unusual that she then cannot see, well it is as if the world is about to explode and we are all doomed! I always pick my battles, so if she is like this before I tack her up I don't bother. If I get as far as tacking up I always lunge first and judge if I think she will be calm enough today. Even then, if I get on, I prefer to go with someone as she can 'hear' things if we go out on our own. At any time she might spook and mostly I can sit these but she does get me off. Unfortunately the last time I broke my collarbone and I'm having it operated on on Wednesday. So I totally get your dwindling confidence.

I would seriously think about back xrays/ having vet check out her sacroilliac and hips and getting a good ACPAT physio onto the case, especially if she is the one for you.

As I won't be able to ride for a bit due to operation and because my confidence is rock bottom she is actually up for sale, but a part of me wants to persevere with her. She is not bad to the bone, just needs a better more confident rider without my baggage. I found my brave pants today and did ride her out on a short hack on my own and goddam it she was perfect. Typical! When your confidence is low your mind definitely plays tricks on you. If you think she is the one for you, you would pursue every avenue, but as one friend said to me, if you dread riding her, she probably dreads you riding her and someone else and their skills might be just what she needs to feel secure. Just a thought. Good luck and I will follow this thread with interest!
 
As you are most likely aware gastric ulcers are 'the latest thing' at the moment. But there is a reason for it. When I first had my horse he was fine to girth ride etc. but he did pull funny faces, sticking his tongue right out. Chomp on the bit like crazy. In hindsight he didn't like his left side groomed, he would step back or give you his head instead

Gradually it got that sometimes he didn't like the saddle on, just ears back at this point.
Same when ridden, leg on would cause ears back. Next came bucking when asked to canter on right lead but fine on left
Did all the usual teeth, back, saddles vet could find no reason either. In fact he said it was behavioural :(
In the end he would stop dead and bronch
Got another vet from practice to scope and sure enough he had ulcers

You say you've had saddle and teeth done in the last year. I would do those again and get back checked ASAP. I have all that done at least twice a year
Also search the ulcer threads there is a video somewhere that shows some tips on reactions you get touching horses with ulcers in certain trigger points. Mine only showed intermittent reactions to any of them
 
Just read through the whole of Baileybones old thread entitled 'Dangerous Mare'. I'm feeling a bit weepy today anyway but I definitely had tears in my eyes reading that and so pleased about the happy outcome :)
 
Sounds just like my lad. 90% of the time he is fine but then he will just 'explode'. It is always related to the saddle. He is fine to tack up and girth up, but then sometimes when he first tries to move afterwards, even with the girth really loose he will totally freak out. Rearing bucking and spinning. He will then stand quivering, terrified.

He did have kissing spines, but that was operated on. I also treated him and still am, for gastric ulcers. This seemed to work at first. Vets have all told me it is remembered pain. In desperation, I even had a horse whisperer who told me the same thing, but still I feel it is genuine girth pain. The horse whisperer told me it was remembered pain and that I needed to distract him so as to break the chain of events that lead him to expect the remembered pain. I am so down about the whole thing that I haven't done anything with him in the past three weeks. I am intending to start clicker training with him as soon as I can get up the enthusiasm. It is very hard when I have tried everything possible in the last three years, and have my hopes continually dashed.

I agree with others, that you need to get her back checked and maybe have her scoped for ulcers. If she is given the all clear, then it maybe that something once really hurt her when she moved a certain way with the saddle, and the expectation of this sets off the reaction. It does sound like she is genuinely scared. I too never ride my boy unless he has been calm to tack up and has been lunged in the saddle on both reins first. If only they could talk!
 
Please don't give up on your horse if she is otherwise suitable. I had a similar issue once and it was only after seeking a second opinion from another Physio (after vet and previous Physio said no problem physically) that we sorted her out! Turns out she was kicking wall at a neighbouring horse who she didn't like and she had put her pelvis out!
Since Physio she is 100% and has been an angel to ride ever since!
Wish I'd approached the second Physio to begin with!!!
 
Please get a physio out to her (and a really good one at that). Do you live anywhere near the West Wilts Equestrian Centre, Melksham? if so i would reccomend that you try and get an appointment with Tex Gamble, you have to take the horse to him but hes brilliant.
 
You will still need a vet first. Physio won't start treatment until after the vet has cleared it, only time is when they are booked in for regular treatments.
 
I'm in Surrey so Wiltshire is probably a bit too far unfortunately. I've got the vet coming out on Friday so will see what they say and maybe go for a physio next. I'm feeling a bit more positive about the future having heard some of your advice and especially the success stories, thanks so much. I still can't imagine myself getting back on her at the moment but I'll take it one day at a time and hope that, with help, I can start to understand the cause of her issues.
 
How long have u had ur mare! My mare went from being a bitch and scared due to previous home to my best friend and could do anything with her then out of no where she wold buck nap rear and spin then a my confidence went I done more ground bonding witch we mastered amazingly and she was letting me ride jump an hack her perfectly, our last you hack and 3 gallops up bridal path hill was on the 30th April. I had her back done and full massage on the 2nd of may she was a little tight one side so I thought great she should be ok now as napped like a mother on that rein, then on the 5th of may she bagged up and on the 17th gave birth!!!
I brought her on the 22nd sptember 2012 as a riding mare lol
 
samandcasper said:
How long have u had ur mare! My mare went from being a bitch and scared due to previous home to my best friend and could do anything with her then out of no where she wold buck nap rear and spin then a my confidence went I done more ground bonding witch we mastered amazingly and she was letting me ride jump an hack her perfectly, our last you hack and 3 gallops up bridal path hill was on the 30th April. I had her back done and full massage on the 2nd of may she was a little tight one side so I thought great she should be ok now as napped like a mother on that rein, then on the 5th of may she bagged up and on the 17th gave birth!!!
I brought her on the 22nd sptember 2012 as a riding mare lol
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I've had her a year so pretty certain she's not pregnant ! What a surprise for you :eek: Hope they're both doing well :)
 
elbee said:
Just read through the whole of Baileybones old thread entitled 'Dangerous Mare'. I'm feeling a bit weepy today anyway but I definitely had tears in my eyes reading that and so pleased about the happy outcome :)
Click to expand...

Ah bless you! I cannot tell you how much I love my girl now and how lucky I am to have her!

She's still a miserable old bag and pulls faces at everything but I know her now and I just don't invade her space more than needed and she is all tits and teeth but that's just her.

Please pm me at anytime and I'll happily bore you to tears about my girl or offer you any advice I can. If you ever fancy a jolly to Swindon with her you'd be very welcome and we have a brilliant behaviourist at the yard. Failing that we have a very nice local pub ;-)

I'd get the vet out but don't be surprised if it isn't a pain response - mine is just a stroppy cow but I wouldn't change her for the world x x
 
Quick update. The vet came out today and couldn't find any obvious pain by feeling her back. When we lunged her she was fine on the left rein but very reluctant to move forward on the right rein and gave some other indications that she wasn't happy (like doing a bunny hop into the canter transition).

Vet recommends X-rays and possibly a bone scan. The X-ray is happening next week.
 
My mare is off for a bone scan on Monday - I ended up in A&E after a random bolt (very scary and she ended up taking herself through a thick hedge and she was lucky not to be hurt). She is such a placid mare that its really shaken me and made me think through a few things like her general grumpiness (she's not excitable just a bit of a grump - not happy with the usual tlc type stuff), going forward problems (I've only had her 6 months and starting to school etc) and some problems lifting her front feet etc. She's had the usual teeth, back and tack checks.

Vet thinks a right hind weakness and it may not be what's causing the issues she's having but I want to know whether its a pain issue first.

Hope you get your answers but I like you can't fall off like I have done!
 
shergar said:
Meandmyself Thank you for posting the link for Magnesium Sulphate it is great stuff for wounds that may have dirt in ,and very effective on foot abscess.
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soulfull said:
As you are most likely aware gastric ulcers are 'the latest thing' at the moment. But there is a reason for it. When I first had my horse he was fine to girth ride etc. but he did pull funny faces, sticking his tongue right out. Chomp on the bit like crazy. In hindsight he didn't like his left side groomed, he would step back or give you his head instead

Gradually it got that sometimes he didn't like the saddle on, just ears back at this point.
Same when ridden, leg on would cause ears back. Next came bucking when asked to canter on right lead but fine on left
Did all the usual teeth, back, saddles vet could find no reason either. In fact he said it was behavioural :(
In the end he would stop dead and bronch
Got another vet from practice to scope and sure enough he had ulcers

You say you've had saddle and teeth done in the last year. I would do those again and get back checked ASAP. I have all that done at least twice a year
Also search the ulcer threads there is a video somewhere that shows some tips on reactions you get touching horses with ulcers in certain trigger points. Mine only showed intermittent reactions to any of them
Click to expand...

If you type in on net ULCERS IN HORSES there is a video Equine ulcer diagnosis by Mark Depaolo ,it shows how horses react depending on where the ulcers are , sorry I am not sure how to do a link.
 
I'm going to suggest an ulcer scope - I know it's the "in" thing at the moment but honestly, she sounds very similar to my friend's mare who it turned out had grade 3 bleeding ulcers. Since treatment she's a different horse and is currently being rebacked after 18 months off and doing amazingly well.
 
It sounds like you've at least got a place to start, which is great. Hopefully further investigation will turn up something obvious and treatable.

After the vet has addressed the underlying medical issue I would suggest a visit from the physio as any long term gait change will have knock on effects. Then I would strongly recommend you find a trainer/instructor who is willing to work with you and the horse - observe the horse, get on him/herself, watch you ride etc - and discuss exactly what is going on and how you can most safely progress. You can also take up your concerns about her innate suitability at that point.

Just getting the mechanics fixed doesn't return everything to '0'. Both you and the horse have had the experience now and you need to move forward from where you are. A bit of the right help at the right time can smooth that transition immensely.
 
I had a TB mare like this, lovely mare but out of nowhere would bronc and carry on when I was on the floor:(
It went on for roughly 18 months and I got to the point I was terrified of riding, I had always been over confident. We had all the checks from vets etc nothing appeared wrong. I got on one day and once again she had me off and winded me so bad I thought she had really hurt me :(
Am not proud to say but I lost my temper with her, I was made to get back on by ri and mother and she never done it again. She turned into my horse of a lifetime she learned me loads and we had lots of fun and won a fair bit on her. I had her till she was PTs but when other people got on her she always had them off in the same way. I really don't know why she done it but I know how terrifying it is now am older I wouldn't have stuck with her but she did turn out to be a fab little mare :D
 
I asked the vet who came out on Friday about the possibility of ulcers but she didn't think that was likely, possibly because my mare's not obviously stressy and she's turned out 24/7. The vet asked me if my mare yawned much and I said no but later that day I saw her yawning (I've since read that yawning can be related to stress so I guess that's why the vet asked).

A different vet from the same practice is coming to do the x-ray so I'll ask abut ulcers again. Does anyone have experience of having their horse tested for ulcers and can describe how the test is carried out ?
 
TarrSteps said:
It sounds like you've at least got a place to start, which is great. Hopefully further investigation will turn up something obvious and treatable.

After the vet has addressed the underlying medical issue I would suggest a visit from the physio as any long term gait change will have knock on effects. Then I would strongly recommend you find a trainer/instructor who is willing to work with you and the horse - observe the horse, get on him/herself, watch you ride etc - and discuss exactly what is going on and how you can most safely progress. You can also take up your concerns about her innate suitability at that point.

Just getting the mechanics fixed doesn't return everything to '0'. Both you and the horse have had the experience now and you need to move forward from where you are. A bit of the right help at the right time can smooth that transition immensely.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice TarrSteps. Right at the moment I can't imagine getting back on her but I seem to remember feeling the same last time she had me off. An instructor who's willing to work with us both and offer advice on her suitability is the best way I can see to move forward once (I hope) I find out what the underlying problem is.
 
shergar said:
If you type in on net ULCERS IN HORSES there is a video Equine ulcer diagnosis by Mark Depaolo ,it shows how horses react depending on where the ulcers are , sorry I am not sure how to do a link.
Click to expand...

Thanks, shergar. Interesting video and the sensitivity around the girth area does sound like my mare. Have tried to post a link, not sure if it will work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4
 
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