Feel so Guilty - New youngster has made me not want my old boy.

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I really feel bad for typing this but over the years I haven't had a lot of luck with horses. My first one dropped dead at 8 of an anurism and it left me distraught.

My second I bought as an 8yrs old. He was clearly doped despite trying him three times and having a five stage vetting ( the vet was struck off for another related incident ). He needed a good two years and lots of help from Richard Maxwell to overcome his issues and then just as things were working out he went permanently lame. He has been retired 15 years.

My third was bought to be a SJer and was professionally trained for 6yrs before giving up on him due to untrainability . I gave him away to someone who was very keen to see if she could put him right. Good luck to her and I do hope he has some usefulness in life.

So my issue is that I bought a foal with a friend last year and we took her to her first show on Sunday and had a really lovely time and here lies the problem,

It has made me realise how much fun horses should be and it was lovely to be ' doing ' something with them. I had a really bad winter with the old one last year and i'm tired of just caring, looking after and servicing the needs of my old boy and getting no joy from it. He is not a cheap easy companion type either he is a 17hh TB and has to live like he is on part livery. He is a lovely lovely horse and although his legs are bad he is bright and alert but finds it very hard to keep weight on.

I have kept him retired for 15 long years and this autumn I want to say goodbye but i'm not sure if I can do it. Others are making me feel bad but they are not the ones who have to do the work, even keeping him fed costs £100 a month never mind the extras, and lastly I want time to enjoy the youngster.

What would you do ?
 
I would put him to sleep if he were mine. Lack of funds IS a valid reason to pts and he has had a long retirement. He will not improve and become rideable again so it's not like you are giving up. You don't even owe him as it's not like he took you to the Olympics. He doesn't owe you either so just be kind to both of you.

Obviously this is my opinion and what I would do but it does have to be your decision in the end.

Best of luck xx
 
Thankyou for that.

The thing is its not lack of funds as the reason, I was just citing his costs as another plus in terms of letting him go and that he's not really a viable option for anyone else to have as a companion.

If i'm honest its the work involved. I have a weak back and he's a dirty s@d in the stable and I don't think I can cope with two to muck out.

The other thing that worries me is that he could go another another few years as he has done so little work in his life he's no wear and tear as such.
 
If he has lameness issues, there always will come a point where his quality of life is not as good as it is now. Best IMO to let him go while he is comfortable rather than wait till he is in pain daily, even if that time might be possibly several years sooner. I would want to err on the side of too soon rather than too late (thinking of friend's cat with problems got to be very ill before she was 'allowed' to be put to sleep, far too late for the poor cat IMO). Could another cold winter make him suffer?
 
What a horrible choice to have to make :(, I really feel for you. I'm sorry people are making you feel bad, too, because it's not a nice situation to be in, and you've been in it for 15 years! I don't think anyone could criticise or be harsh if you decide to pts, as uncomfortable as the idea may be.

If he can't live out and is very high maintenance then it's perfectly understandable if you've had enough after 15 years. You don't want to be in a situation where you're resenting the fact that he's still going, because that's even more horrible and will only make you bitter about having to look after him :(.

He's had a longer retirement than most horses will, and he's a respectable age now. There's something to be said for pts while you're both still happy, and knowing that you won't have to carry on the work for years to come will hopefully give you some peace of mind, and help you enjoy the time he has left. In the end, though, you have to make the decision that feels right to you, as useless as that sounds :o.
 
I'm sorry but the 'others' that are making you feel guilty are way out of line.. Why not offer him to them on perm loan if their getting upset about it..

15 years of retirement is a heck of a long time not to get anything back from him, if he was living out 24/7 and maintaining a good weight then I could understand you keeping him, but in terms of time and money your investing a lot of both into him..

Its easy to judge from a distance but if he were mine I'd like to think I'd be able to call it a day and then spend the time and money on my young horse.
 
Sounds to me like you have done him proud. It is no good telling you not to feel guilty as you are obviously deeply caring. You do deserve some fun and maybe this is the time for youto have it.

Like someone else has said he will get worse and better too soon than too late. Being in a similar situation you ave my deepest sympathy and please ignore people who probably never have been, and never will be, in your situation. (((hugs)))
 
Not knowing the FULL story im not going to judge but i dont personally agree.

When you buy a horse you make a commitment to it whether its rideable or not, i would only pts when horse is having more bad days than good days and is in a lot of pain.

If you cant sell or loan out its up to you to look after him tbh.

Anywho its your decsion to make and no-one elses, its just not the way i look at things.
 
I can totally sympathise. I have an old mare (now 34) and I've had her for 29 years. For the past 15 years she's been in full livery with my friend and is still ridden out once or twice a week and another friend has a gentle lesson once a week. I now live over an hour's drive away (moved a year ago) and we've just bought somewhere where I can have my horses at home. The problem is I can't really move her, she's very settled where she is and she finds moving house quite stressful and I just don't think it's fair on her at her stage in life. So she will stay where she is and we will just move the pony and get another couple to have here for the kids and me to share. We can afford the livery but we are not made of money and there are plenty other things we could spend the livery fees on. I have said that if she starts to go down hill I will not hang around making my decision, and my friend knows this as well. But although she is beginning to look old (grey hairs, saggy back, etc) she is not unwell and is still pretty spritely, and totally sound. When I am away from her I sometimes think I should just have her PTS, but when I see her I know I couldn't until she's ready. Not looking for any answers, only I can make the decision, but she could easily go on for another few years. It's so difficult to know what to do.
 
What a hard decision to make but wierd as something similar we were talking about whilst riding this morning. I have a horse that is quirky, Ive had him 8 yrs, hes now 12. Although I love him to bits I cant exactly say its been fun and reading your fun day at the show brought things home to me as Ive never had a day like that as hes 'difficult'. So really I suppose I should sell him, maybe weve just never clicked but I just cant do it for fear of him being passed arround and the fact if Im honest I just couldnt bear to part with him despite his quirkiness, hes sound touch wood so pts would never be an option but if he was old and permanently lame I would seriously consider pts. Whereas my friend keeps her horses for life, she wouldnt see one suffer but as long as they are field sound she would never consider pts. She now has a number of very happy field ornaments of various ages.
If I had my own place as my friend has, it would never be an option for me either unless of course they became ill, miserable or in pain. Your old horse has made a good age for a big TB and I think you have done your best giving him 15 yrs retirement. I think what Im trying to say is dont feel bad if you decide to pts, the others will soon have something else to talk about.
 
Personally, if it were me, I wouldn't PTS.

Saying that, your reasons are understandable and it is YOUR decision, no-one else's. From what you say you have looked after him well for a long time, which is more than many unrideable horses get.

If money is not an issue maybe it would be an idea to find someone who would look after him a few days a week in winter, in return for a bit of pocket money? Not sure if circumstances would allow, but I certainly would feed/muck out etc for a bit of extra cash (doing this for someone atm).
 
It is hard. I've been in a very similar situation. It sounds like you're giving him a lovely life and keeping him well, and you have kept him going for longer than many people would have.

It's all very well for those who are around you to make you feel guilty, but I bet they aren't offering to help you out on a regular basis, and I bet they all have horses they ride and do things with.

When I completely retired my old boy 6 years ago, I was in exactly the same position as you. How do I keep him and get a horse I can start having fun and competing on again? I just couldn't bring myself to have him pts at that time, so I just went ahead and got another! Assisted DIY was helpful, and also changing the bedding from shavings to rubber and woodchip not only saved a fortune, but is a lot quicker to muck out. My old arthritic horse never layed down in the stable, so I only had to put bedding in the corner to soak up the wee, and then it took less than 5 minutes to muck out in the morning.

I think you should get another horse! You are only on this planet and young once.
It wouldn't be the wrong decision to pts the old horse, and better a day too early than a day too late. But, if you just can't bear to do it right now. See if you can work out any labour saving methods of doing the daily chores and get the new one as well?

good luck xxx
 
I think it is completely up to you and you shouldn't listen to what others say as it is not them who are feeling the 'burden'.

My friend was faced with the same decision last year. her horse had been unridable for several years due to behavoural problems and his melanomas. his behavoural problems also meant that she had to make the decision to turn him out 24/7 rather than part stable him as he bedly hurt her on several occasions. despite this she kept him going and he lived happily in his field for about 5 years. keeping his weight despite struggling previously. She had him pts at the begining of last winter as she just couldn't face another winter with him and struggling to know what to do with him (he'd hurt her when she was just trying to move him to a different field a few weeks previously).

Perhaps you could consider the option of turning him out in a field and just supplying him with add lib hay and decent feed? Rugging him well over winter? it would relieve some of the workload and cost and you never know, he may suprise you... as for feeding, I don't know what he is fed but maybe there are cheaper options?

I agree that buying a horse is making a commitment and to be honest part of that commitment is knowing the right time for you and them to part company in whatever way that may be. It is never an easy decision to make unless the choice is taken from you.

You can't compare a horse to a dog as when a dog is old and infirm you can just open the back door and let it into the garden for a mooch about instead of a walk twice a day. horses are a hell of a lot more work and money.
 
I'm probably going to be shot down for this one but I have to say, I personally would not be able to put him to sleep. Especially if money is not an issue and he leads a happy life. I am not judging you at all, I think it's wonderful that you have given him a lovely retirement for the past 15 years - all credit to you! But does he deserve to lose his life becase he couldn't give you what you hoped for? For me the answer is no but then it isn't me that has to look after and pay for him. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
 
If I were in your shoes I would have to PTS. 15 years is a very long retirement and as you know he could have years left. If he were an easy and cheap horse to keep and a good companion then I would think harder about it but you are putting yourself through the mill when PTS is a perfectly kind option. I think people forget that the horse knows nothing of what is going to happen, it is just us who feel guilt.
 
I have never been in a situation remotely similar to this, so my reply is based only on opinion.

In this situation I *think* I would PTS. Because you yourself say that you don't want him. Maybe this is just a bad day for you, the comparison between your expensive field ornament and your fun day at the show will make the difference blindingly obvious. But if this is something you have been feeling more often than not recently, it would be the best solution overall.

People saying that "a horse is for life, not just when it is rideable" seem to overlook the fact you have given this horse 15 years of retirement, which is a hell of a lot when they are on grass livery, and even more in these circumstances. In the end only you can decide whether or not to PTS and you would have kept that horse for life, death is, in the end part of life, and making sure (if you did PTS) the horse was happy till the end would be all part of that.

It all boils down to the fact that if you continue to "not want" this horse, even the best intentioned people can be apt to let the quality of care slip, even if it is just a reduction in time fussing the horse. It would be better IMO to to PTS and know the horse was happy to the end, in a caring home for all its retirement. After spending more time in retirement with you than in work, I can't see that you "owe" it anything as such, then you have more time, attention and resources for your new youngster.

People have put horses down after far less time and with far less reason. Hold you head up high, you have done your best by this horse, and don't let anyone, friend or stranger, try convince you otherwise.
 
I can tell you that if you rang any of the big horse charities they would advise you to PTS. He already has health issues and you've given him a fantastic retirement , he best chance of a happy life is with you as he is, and if you can't provide that any more then PTS.
But having a big old horse on retirement I know where you are coming from and I know at the moment I couldn't do it even though for me the money is the issue as he's on full retirement livery.
Would that not be an option for you?
 
LHS said:
I really feel bad for typing this but over the years I haven't had a lot of luck with horses. My first one dropped dead at 8 of an anurism and it left me distraught.

My second I bought as an 8yrs old. He was clearly doped despite trying him three times and having a five stage vetting ( the vet was struck off for another related incident ). He needed a good two years and lots of help from Richard Maxwell to overcome his issues and then just as things were working out he went permanently lame. He has been retired 15 years.

My third was bought to be a SJer and was professionally trained for 6yrs before giving up on him due to untrainability . I gave him away to someone who was very keen to see if she could put him right. Good luck to her and I do hope he has some usefulness in life.

So my issue is that I bought a foal with a friend last year and we took her to her first show on Sunday and had a really lovely time and here lies the problem,

It has made me realise how much fun horses should be and it was lovely to be ' doing ' something with them. I had a really bad winter with the old one last year and i'm tired of just caring, looking after and servicing the needs of my old boy and getting no joy from it. He is not a cheap easy companion type either he is a 17hh TB and has to live like he is on part livery. He is a lovely lovely horse and although his legs are bad he is bright and alert but finds it very hard to keep weight on.

I have kept him retired for 15 long years and this autumn I want to say goodbye but i'm not sure if I can do it. Others are making me feel bad but they are not the ones who have to do the work, even keeping him fed costs £100 a month never mind the extras, and lastly I want time to enjoy the youngster.

What would you do ?
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I know exactly how you are feeling. I am going to pts. Just got to pluck up the courage to set the date. It will be very hard and I will feel bad but I know it is for the best. They have been with me a long time and a long time in retirement. Not quite 15 years but very close.
 
LHS said:
What would you do ?
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Personally, I work on, for all we put in, everyone deserves something to ride. If that means pts, sell, give away, whatever, do it - its soul destroying to do it all for nothing back.

That said, I'd have a yard full of pet failures as well if money and time were no object.

Its a hard choice to make with a horse who's an old mate, but as said above, he's had a good retirement, he won't know anything about it and your reasons are fair. You've just got to be tough and stand by your decision. Shame on the people making you feel guilty, it sounds like this is the sort of horse many of them would have part-ex'd within the first year. I think he's one lucky horse already.
 
Being blunt, not a chance in hell that I would pay livery for a horse that had no purpose, so I think you are an angel for doing this for 15 years already, and now is the time to call it quits. I salute you, I really do!
 
Weezy said:
Being blunt, not a chance in hell that I would pay livery for a horse that had no purpose, so I think you are an angel for doing this for 15 years already, and now is the time to call it quits. I salute you, I really do!
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This ^

Hugs
xxx
 
Weezy said:
Being blunt, not a chance in hell that I would pay livery for a horse that had no purpose, so I think you are an angel for doing this for 15 years already, and now is the time to call it quits. I salute you, I really do!
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you here, but what do you call a purpose? See my post above - my horse has 'a purpose' - she provides the odd hack and a lesson to my nervous friend once a week. But I can't 'do' anything with her. I didn't miss competing for a few years (my children were little), but she is 34, healthy and sound, and now I have the time to get back 'out there' I feel like I'm going nowhere. I always said I would provide for her in her later life as she has taught me so much, just didn't expect her to be around for so long.

P.S. Weezy, please don't take this personally as it isn't aimed at you, but the situation, I always like your frank and honest approach. But like the OP I sometimes feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place and it's very frustrating.

And sorry OP I didn't mean to hijack your post, but the situation is not dissimilar as both our horses have a good quality of life but serve no real use to the people paying for their upkeep.
 
I'm afraid I don't agree with the majority on here. To me, and this is just a personal and frank opinion, not wanting to look after him anymore is not a good enough reason to have him pts. I understand you have done this for 15 years and it sounds like you have been doing a great job. Getting fed up of it just isn't good enough I'm afraid, particularly if you have the funds to keep him. I wouid be trying to get some help with him, as a pony mad teenager, I would gladly have helped out with a horse like this, especially for some pocket money. Can't you explore these sort of options first?
 
nikicb - Not taken personally at all :D Fact is there is no way I could justify paying out livery and costs for a horse that I couldn't do what I wanted with. An old horse who I have had for a lifetime and was now happy to just hack out once a week, fine, but only if I was truly happy with that. I have 2 children, am in my 30s like you, horses are my indulgent hobby and I just could not justify spending money on a horse that I got nothing back from....if I had a field at the back of my house that the horse could live in then that would be different, but I don't, so my horses are on livery, and I like to compete, so no, I could never have a retired horse as my main horse.

I also think (and WOW this isn't going to go down well...) that people in this country try and extend horses lives too much. Because I put so much money in, horses are like a commodity to me, they fulfil my needs or they get passed on. I would have absolutely no problem putting a well loved horse to sleep if it was no longer rideable, it is a dignified way to go, rather than waiting for it to get old and die :/

And no, I am not always nasty - all of the horses that haven't served my purpose over here have been sold on to amazing homes, and are still there, and I sold most of them for under their value as the home was right.
 
To be honest there are plenty of people who would have pts as soon as permanent lameness was diagnosed. As others have said 15 years retirement is a long time and if my maths is right he must be about 25. You have given him the best care you can for that time and you now owe him nothing more. If you now resent this horse it will show in your quality of care so pts now but it can only be your decision not other peoples, whoever they may be.
 
I have to say, I agree with Weezy. You have gone beyond and above IMO in giving him a retirement that has spanned 15 yrs.
You give the impression that you dont want to pass his problems onto someone else, so I think that PTS is the sensible option for both of you.
 
Weezy said:
nikicb - Not taken personally at all :D Fact is there is no way I could justify paying out livery and costs for a horse that I couldn't do what I wanted with. An old horse who I have had for a lifetime and was now happy to just hack out once a week, fine, but only if I was truly happy with that. I have 2 children, am in my 30s like you, horses are my indulgent hobby and I just could not justify spending money on a horse that I got nothing back from....if I had a field at the back of my house that the horse could live in then that would be different, but I don't, so my horses are on livery, and I like to compete, so no, I could never have a retired horse as my main horse.

I also think (and WOW this isn't going to go down well...) that people in this country try and extend horses lives too much. Because I put so much money in, horses are like a commodity to me, they fulfil my needs or they get passed on. I would have absolutely no problem putting a well loved horse to sleep if it was no longer rideable, it is a dignified way to go, rather than waiting for it to get old and die :/

And no, I am not always nasty - all of the horses that haven't served my purpose over here have been sold on to amazing homes, and are still there, and I sold most of them for under their value as the home was right.
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Thank you, I get a little worried on here sometimes that people aren't able to enter into healthy discussion without taking offence :D

The moral dilemma I have is that I do have a field at the back of my house, but I am not prepared to move her. A lot of local shooting goes on round here (not literally in the fields adjacent to us, but you can hear it) and following an incident where some very helpful guy let off a gun at the exact moment she was being ridden past, she is petrified of shooting (stands and shakes from head to toe). And the RAF helicopters come quite low near us as well. Don't get me wrong we live in a great place, but actually it's far more rural than where she is used to and far less 'sanitised'. I guess we will just trundle on as we have been. But much as it is when you have a very old relative who is just hanging on by a thread, I spend half my life dreading and the other half anticipating a call from my friend saying the time has come.
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and support.

It has / is a really tough decision to make and so far I have never been in this situation as my animals have died natural deaths.

People are right to be concerned that I appear to be wanting to PTS a healthy horse and normally that would be me aswell. I have been brought up to believe animals are for life so this goes against everything I have ever thought.

All I would say is that my horse does have bad legs, which will only get worse, he is a 17hh 25 yrs TB, and at some point those legs are not going to support his frame. He doesn't like the winter at all and is really grouchy with the others and his size makes that harder.

And yes I am tired, very tired and I don't think I can go through another winter with him. Until you have experienced this I now think it is hard to really know the issues of it and I have given him far longer than most in my situation.

I so wish I could have Weezy's outlook but I'm just not made that way.
 
I do think you should do what is best for YOU, and not take other people's feelings to heart. Easier said than done, but by God you have done a wonderful job on your boy for so long, and at 25 with his problems, you owe him nothing- apart form a decision that will save him deteriorating before your eyes.
It sounds like he won't enjoy another winter- let him have the sun on his back this summer, if you feel he is enjoying it, but say goodbye before the weather gets too harsh for him.
Horses are a hobby, and a commitment, but sometimes we do have to make decisions we would rather not, and besides the horses' welfare, your own feelngs and personal situation are things noone else can ever fully understand or appreciate. You are living YOUR life, and they are living theirs.
Thinking of you at this time.
 
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