Feeling a bit fed up really-sorry long and confusing!

[dozzie]

So despite posting some silly pics to try to cheer myself up Im actually feeling a bit down today!

Some people will know my presshus has sacroiliac problems. These have been going on for some time. You wouldnt actually know to look at her when she is working well. Last week, the day after she had physio,I had her saddle checked and adjusted . She was a bit iffy but nothing really bad, just seemed a bit stiff which we put down to physio. Then had a lesson and she seemed to work through the stiffness and was working nicely by the end (didnt do too much though as its early days). This week the Physio found she was very sore in her shoulder and wither (didnt really want to be touched) which would indicate the saddle but could be linked to pole work she'd been doing.

Yesterday I had a lesson and we are trying to encourage her to work in a slower rhythm but correctly, with a particular emphasis on straightness. Our aim is to slowly build up the muscles again to help her to bring the hindlegs further through with more strength. Had it videoed and as instructor said she actually was tracking up and working well, using her abdominal muscles and lifting through her back and has really made progress. Certainly the trot would get a 6 or even a seven at times in a test. Canter is still an issue but to me its early days and best to take things slowly.

So had vet out to reassess today and he thinks shes gone backwards since 6 weeks ago and isnt tracking up as well or going as "forward" as she was. I could have probably pushed her on more but as we are working on straightness and rhythm I didnt to mess up the work so far.

Are we on the right lines? Straightness and rhythm with more impulsion as she becomes stronger? I would say her trot is ok, she's working through but just lacking pizzazz! My suspicion is that last time he came she was crooked but able to charge round but now we are making her go straight she is finding it harder to charge round because she is having to support herself. Do you think that is correct?

So thats the first bit! We then discussed her spooking and I mentioned that it is odd that she seems to spook at things on the right! So he checked her eyesight and shes got Keratitis in her right eye but not her left which could explain the spooking. He's given me some stuff to put in her eye but tbh Im not that hopeful. Can anyone tell me anything about this?

The SI probs are on the right side too so I had put the spooking down to SI but now it seems there is something else too! Fingers crossed that when physio comes next week Presshus is happier about the saddle again.

Looks like I might end up with another lawnmower

Shes a fab horse with so much ability and Im just fed up. Moan, moan moan!!!! And I cant even blame PMT. It just seems to have been going on for so long! And now this!

And finally, the holidays are nearly over.

Someone make me feel more positive please!

 

[Blizzard]

((huge hugs))

I know what you mean, Ive had a horse lame now for 6 weeks, just not right, had physio 3 times, still no better, got him shod today, hoping the shoes he had put on would help, £85 later, no difference. He is now booked in for McTimony tomorrow, if that doesnt help, more x rays, then possibly retirement.

Tis very frustrating so I can sympathise

 

[Gorgeous George]

Oh dear to you both it must be so frustrating knowing that they're not feeling right and not knowing what is wrong. Oh if only they could tell us.......... {{hugs}}

 

[dozzie]

Thats exactly right. if only she could tell me. She is such a sweetheart, just cant fault her temperament its just so ...something... but cant find the right word!!!!

 

[brighteyes]

Sh!t?

Time is a healer. That's all I can offer - along with some healing <<<<<vibes>>>>>

 

[wizoz]

I feel really sad for you.

I think all horses should get free body scanning, that way you can rule out all the faffing that goes with trying to diagnose the problem(s) and a lot of cost.
Our little man had to have a full body scan, apart from finding pedal bone rotation in his hind feet, it showed that the rest of him was structurally sound, so it's kind of a weight of your shoulder.

I really hope you manage to sort things out.

 

[BethH]

From my own experience (my horse had kissing spines and op, his back end was useless and he couldn't lift his back, made it impossible for him to work properly from behind) I think your instructor is right, as long as he/she isn't asking your horse to be too perfect I think it is right to try to achieve this. My horse still struggles with straightness, he used to swing his hind leg inwards as the area around his hip was weak as could not properly muscle as he couldn't move correctly pre-op, consequently he spends his life falling in and out through his shoulder partly habit and partly this is how he taught himself to move to avoid pain if that makes sense.

I feel it is really hard work sometimes and more than a little demoralising but over a period of months he has been continually improving simply because contrary to most advice given, we have slowed him down and taught him that now he isn't in pain he doesn't need to rush, his paces are slower but bigger and longer and he has much more ability to get impulsion from the back end, he now overtracks well as a result of this work. I can now get a correct lead canter from a really slow trot which given his history is pretty remarkable. Do persevere with this and try to get the long and low outline (not head tucked in) as this will stretch and strengthen the muscles in your horses back. I have had so many people tell to ride my horse more forward including feedback from the couple of shows I have been out to over the last few weeks. People don't understand that my horse although slower, is actually covering more ground and staying calm and I would say that by doing as your instructor says you will make your horse really strong and able to support the weak area.

Please don't feel disheartened, you are doing a great job for your mare, it sounds as though your instructor actually knows what she is talking about and you have nothing to lose by carrying on if your horse is staying sound and comfortable. You could also try a little bit of long reining as it worked wonders for my horse and helping to strengthen his back. It also allows you to properly watch your mares movement. I still long rein once every couple of weeks just to monitor Ryan as it is a good guide to how he is feeling.

Hope that helps and if you are really worried get a 2nd opinion. You can always pm me if you want some details of some of the rehab exercises I did with Ryan.

 

[Tinypony]

I agree with BethH. I think it might be worth asking your vet to explain to your instructor exactly what he means and what he thinks you should be doing, because it sounds to me as if you are on the right lines. No point in having a horse going "forward" if it's about pulling forward from the front, your instructor is working on strength from behind, which surely is the right thing.
I've been through this as well, I too have a horse with problems in the pelvic/sacroilliac area, and also kissing spine.
I'm just wondering - are they 100% certain in the diagnosis? Back problems can look very similar to sacro problems. Some back problems can only be found with Xray.
Don't be disheartened by that - what you are doing sounds really positive to me!

 

[TarrSteps]

I'm obviously coming in halfway through this conversation but does your vet ride? I'm not demeaning his/her ability as a vet AT ALL and I don't know how similar this is in the UK but I've noticed a trend in the past few years for vets to give what I consider to be fairly specialised riding and training advice, sometimes from rather questionable backgrounds. Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely in favour of a combined "holistic" approach where everyone in the horse's "team" - vet, physio, trainer, saddler etc. - is working together and contributing their knowledge - that is TOTALLY the best way to go. But then everyone has to be allowed their speciality and at least there has to be a discussion/explanation/grounds for compromise. I've had a few "interesting" discussions with vets recommending particular devices or practices without seeming to really understand context or possible ramifications and without being able to actually DO what they're asking someone else to do. Makes me go "hmm" sometimes. (Interestingly, one vet in particular is inclined to offer "advice" that obviously comes directly from observing her most high profile client, a GP dressage rider with a rep for being not the easiest on her horses. I suspect she gives the vet a lot of business.)

Interestingly, those discussions about "going forward" and "tracking up" seem particularly fraught and oddly I've had some trouble getting vets to see riding as essentially the horse's physiotherapy program, where different exercises are done at different times for different reasons. Perhaps part of the problem is that many trainers are not great at explaining the whys and wherefores to vets in a language they understand. Vets are used to quantifying things by specific criteria - how much is the horse doing "x" - but riding and training is much more about feel. I liken it to walking down a path towards a house in the forest - you might tack left and right, work around obstacles, even have to double back, but all the time moving towards your goal. Vets tend to be more linear thinkers and figure once something is "done" that's the end of it.

In the end it's all about "calm, forward, straight". That's the basis of physio, that's the basis of classical schooling . . . .that's the basis of everything. But it all has to be in balance. It's not one then the other then the other - wouldn't it be great if it was that easy?? It's getting all three in concert, gradually straightening and strengthening as the process progresses. And not every system does it exactly the same way. Perhaps if you could explain to your vet why you are taking the tack you are with your horse he/she might be able to see the big picture and understand how the work might initially make for changes in your horse's way of going.

You could also just stick to your guns if you trust your instructor (who presumably knows the horse's history and takes it into account) and not get into it with the vet at all. Smile, shrug, keep going.

The thing is no horse is perfect - that's the whole point of schooling - and I find it can help to think of imperfections as weaknesses rather than pathologies. I'm a huge fan of finding out exactly what's going on but honestly that's not always possible. What you have to be able to do is make it better or at least "better enough". Perfect isn't in the cards. If your work is making for improvement that you can see and feel then it's right. If it's not then you have to sit down and rethink. BUT, as mentioned it can take a long time to see a difference and sometimes you just have to trust the more experienced - in this case your instructor - for a bit until you can see for yourself.

 

[dozzie]

She was diagnosed with bonescans and there was nothing showing in the rest of the spine, just the sacroiliac region so kissing spine was ruled out. She was injected with cortisone which will have now lost much of its effect and I think this may have influenced the vet. Plus he only saw her when she was warming up and basically this horse takes a good twenty minutes to really start to move. I wish now id had the previous days video to hand! Next time i will ask him to see her warmed up!

I think, and from what other people are saying, my instructor is right. True engagement cannot come without straightness and engagement is going to be difficult for her until she gets stronger again.

 

[dozzie]

[ QUOTE ]
You could also just stick to your guns if you trust your instructor (who presumably knows the horse's history and takes it into account) and not get into it with the vet at all. Smile, shrug, keep going.


[/ QUOTE ]

TBH thats what Im doing! He was a bit against physio but I managed to convince him!!! And the physio has given me exercises to, guess what, strengthen the abdominal muscles and the hind quarters.

It sounds like everyone is with me an my instructor so I will keep going! I do believe we can get this horse back, maintaining it will not be easy during the winter months, and she will never be the superstar she could have been but she is not a write off!!

 

[Anastasia]

Awwww dozziesmummy poor you and you baby....................its so difficult and I wish I could help but I dont know much about the condition, but try and keep your chin up. You know your horse the best and will know whats the best for her. Sending {{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}} your way....xxx

 

[Halfpass]

We have a horse with SI problems that have been going on for 3 years or so. When he was diagnosed we decided togive him 6 months off. We did this and he was 100 x better so we bought him back into work slowly got him fit lunged him in a pessoa but forgot the schooling as he just found it too hard, we also put him on various joint supplements and had the physio to him. After this he went onto hunt and XC for 2 seasons. This year he had a relapse and we initially decided to retire him and we bought another horse. Again he had 6 months off with various physios and pain relief. One thing my physio asked and said to me which were the wisest words ever was 'what is he happy doing'. Murphy is happiest plodding over the downs he is grumpy in the field when not ridden hates others horses and doesn't like it in the stables. So now on advice from vets and physios and on 1 bute a day he is hacked out we are building it up slowly and touch wood although not 'tracking up' properly and never 'working correctly' he is relatively sound and happy. We never canter him (if we can help it) as this is his wosrt pace and he does look quite uncomfy but he will hack out for a good hour now and thoroughyl enjoys it. So don't be disheartened we were and now we have 3 horses to exercise!!

 

[Lottie7]

You know what? Cheer up because it is very likely that your horse has EPSM which is put right by diet change and management. Do some research into it and have a look at the Rural Heritage web site and the work of Dr Beth Valentine or Dr Stephanie Valberg. My horse had the same problems you describe and had two scintigraphy scans, hocks medicated, ultrasound scan of the back ligaments, numerous xray - so many investigative tests I've forgotten. He was diagnosed with SI and bone spavin. But the vets were wrong and admitted they were wrong. All he had was EPSM. Reading your horse's symptoms I would very amazed she didn't have the same problem. You need to keep an open mind - the diet will not hurt any horse though.

The canter issues sound familiar - I could write a book on them. Before diet change he couldn't canter half a 20 metre circle - after diet change he was eventing to intermediate level.

The symptoms came and went over the years too - so you end up trying one thing and thinking you have found the cure and then things going wrong again. It is often linked to time of year, feeding and stable management.

And the physio also sounds familiar. He hated being touched by the physio - big dramas. She also found sore spots in the wither and shoulder and between the front legs. It was all secondary soreness though. Once he had adapted to the diet he began to enjoy the physio sessions (which really helped by the way) and began to interact with her.

Anyway, do some research and don't give up. I'm very optimistic for you.

Best wishes.